mcdonl
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But that is why we have AR's, AK's and an ammo stash right?
Is a concealed carry permit worth it ?
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But that is why we have AR's, AK's and an ammo stash right?
Vern Humphrey
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It may be initially that police looked askance at permit holders. But now common sense has taken hold. If the cop knows you have a CHL, he knows who you are -- that is, a person with no criminal record, who has been checked out. In fact, CHL studies show CHL holders are less likely to commit crimes than cops!!
Here in Arkansas, the State Police vigorously opposed the CHL law when it was first being debated. After a few years experience with it, that has all changed. When common-sense changes to the law are being proposed, reducing the restrictions on CHL holders, the State Police usually show up and testify on our behalf.
Here in Arkansas, the State Police vigorously opposed the CHL law when it was first being debated. After a few years experience with it, that has all changed. When common-sense changes to the law are being proposed, reducing the restrictions on CHL holders, the State Police usually show up and testify on our behalf.
Haha, on this forum I'd say that's about like asking "Should I buy another gun?", and you see what kind of answer you'll get.
Since these guys have told you all the good, I'll be Chicken Little and tell you potential negative consequences:
1)Depending on your state, CCP records may or may not be public record. Back in my motherland (the beautiful state of TN) a major newspaper published an internet search-able database of all the TN CCP holders, including addresses at first.
Some would call that a shopping list for gun thieves, others say thieves may avoid those homes for fear of being shot. Either way, just know there is a chance (albeit a small one) that your permit may become public record at some point, and ask yourself if that could affect you in anyway. (For instance, do you work for a really nosy and invasive boss who is extremely antigun?)
2)Your family / significant other may or may not be supportive. My spouse if fine with it, across the family the opinions vary. Many of them may not even know I carry (the antis
), although they all know I shoot regularly.3)You have to learn and implement some laws, which are sometimes quirky, obscure, and inconvenient. As an example, no concealed weapons allowed in NC where admission is charged to an event. So dinner and a movie with the significant other, you have to remember to leave your firearm in the car (theft risk) or leave it at home.
Going to have a glass of wine with dinner at a restaurant? Can't carry. Going to any restaurant that serves alcohol for consumption for dinner? Depending on state law you may not be able to carry there, so leave it at home or in the car at the restaurant. (Guess where a lot of guns are stolen from in NC.... cars in parking lots at restaurants that serve alcohol of course).
Traveling on a multistate vacation in the car with your weapon? Lots of homework to do on the states you are driving through in terms of permit reciprocity, and applicable laws. www.handgunlaw.us is great for that. You come to NC or any other state with quirky gun laws and you're carrying, you're responsible for knowing those quirky laws for the state you are in, and following them.
4)If you buy into the big brother conspiracies, the gubermint now has you on a list as a gun owner. OTOH, wouldn't that be a decent % of households in America, whether or not they have a CCP? What if they decide all known gun owners are "terrorists", and you get put on the watch list, along with half the rest of the country. Remember, it's the government, it doesn't have to make sense for them to do it
5)Have anyone at your house besides you ever? Kids/grandkids, etc? Have to keep it locked up or on you at all times.
6)It's a major responsibility, and in the unlikely event you ever use it, it can become a huge liability. You can be in the right, cleared of any wrongdoing whatsoever, and still drop $20,000+++ in a hurry on legal fees, then six figures on a civil suit depending on the state laws. But if a situation was bad enough for you to use it, legal fees beats your family cutting a check to the mortician, right?
That's the end of the list.
At the airports it's never made a difference, during traffic stops it helps if anything (IIRC depending on your state the police may know you have a CCP when they run your plates, which isn't a bad thing in most cases)
Only time I've ever been hassled about it was crossing the border into Canada, story of mine from a few years back:
My last trip into Canada, they gave me the 3rd degree at the border crossing into Canada near Buffalo despite the fact that I was not carrying any weapons, concealed or otherwise, in the car.
I assume they ran my plates and somehow that linked up and told them I had a concealed carry permit? I certainly didn't bring up my CC Permit. Maybe they were just stereotyping people from TN that day, who knows.
Border Guard: Do you have any weapons or firearms in the car?
Me: No sir.
BG: Are you sure?
Me: Absolutely positive.
BG: If you have any in the car you can declare them, leave them here, and pick them up on your way back.
Me: OK.
BG: We can search your car, and if you are caught bringing any into Canada you will be arrested, weapon seized, car seized, forced to walk the plank, surrender your firstborn child, blah, blah
Me: (annoyed by this point
) OK.BG: Now I'm going to ask you one more time. Do you have any weapons in your car.
Me: Nope, still don't
Every other time I've crossed, they usually ask what I'm doing (visiting family), how long I'll be there, where I'm from, maybe even smile, and then tell me to have a nice day. Not sure what that guy's deal was.
But overall, to me, the permit is worth it beyond the shadow of a doubt. Even if you didn't use it much, it's not really hurting you in any way if you don't carry.
Vern Humphrey
Member
There is a particularly obnoxious left-wing publication in Arkansas, Arkansas Times, that did the same thing. Whereupon Arkansas CHL holders put up the name, address and home phone number of the flack who did it. After a day or so, he took down the site. Seems people were calling him at home to complain.
We still live in a nation of laws, and if you're required in your area to have a permit to carry a weapon, then by all means obey the law and get the permit. For years I carried a weapon in any way I was legally allowed to - when I got my permit it was like gates opening up, giving me many more ways to carry. Now, any time I go out, I feel I'm much more able to defend myself, my family, and my friends than before. Personally, I wouldn't rely on a baton for self-defense - the reasons have already been given. But once you have the permit, you will (at the least) have more options available to you than just a baton.
I believe some of the gun bloggers published the same info for editors etc. of the Memphis paper as well, but the database is still live even today.
Obnoxious, left-wing, and publication (ie newspaper). Isn't that a triple redundancy?
CoRoMo
Member
Sometimes I blink with bewilderment at the reality that I used to go about daily life unarmed.
It would be a lot like continuing through my daily activities with gasoline soaked clothing.
It would be a lot like continuing through my daily activities with gasoline soaked clothing.
Deanimator
Member
The same thing happened to the editor of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. He actually seemed SURPRISED that this would happen.
Happened in Sandusky too, I think. A LOT of personal information about the culprits was published online.
Flintknapper
Member
I've had mine for 12 years, (Texas). No problems, get yours.
I wouldn't necessairly leave the baton at home just b/c you have a gun, as it's really nice to have some intermediete force options (scalloped flashlight, pepper spray, baton, etc.) between your bare hands and a handgun.
Couple months ago while walking my dog around a family member's large fenced yard, late at night, urban area, a big agressive dog comes running through the only open gate on the whole acre of property, and starts coming towards us. A bright flashlight beam to the eyes drove it off when it was about 60' away, but it occurred to me that if that hadn't work my only other options were physical contact with it, or shooting it. My pepper spray was in my car :banghead:
Shooting it, although legal under the circumstances, would have woken the entire neighborhood, police come out, my grandmother wakes up to the sound of a gun going off outside her window, the neighbor gets pissed b/c you killed their poor innocent little
(120+LB) dog that would have never hurt a fly and they're sure it was tied up in their yard, and it was actually a $5000 champion show dog, blah blah, you get the idea.Guns and more
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Sometimes you just need to stand up for your rights. (or else they will be gone.)
What better message could we send Washington than to have 40 million CCW permits?
What better message could we send Washington than to have 40 million CCW permits?
FlyinBryan
Member
i dont think so, but if we are here in texas, thats one heck of a list. i honestly dont care.
in my only 2 encounters i have been treated better. once was in an apartment parking lot where the cop (dallas police officer) actually parked his cruiser and stayed and chatted about 30 minutes. i was carrying an aluminum framed commander sized 1911 and he was quite smitten by it. he took the pistol and asked if it was loaded, and i said yes, with one in the chamber. he dropped the mag, handed it to me, and removed the round from the chamber and handed that to me. this was not in an effort to keep the situation safe for himself, but because he just wanted to check the gun out. i could tell that after just a few minutes he was completly comfortable with the situation. he went on and on about how the department wouldnt allow 1911's to be carried by on duty personel. he just loved it, and commented several times about how light it was and how easily it pointed. after about 5 mins or so he handed it back to me while continuing to talk. he never even really broke his stride in the conversation as he did. he said i could go ahead and rechamber and reholster, which i did. he stayed and we talked about how we were both raised around firearms. turned out his dad had taught him the ropes long before he ever even thought about being a cop, as did mine. he said he was looking into buying a new firearm to carry while off duty, and that it would be a lightweight commander.
it was really nice, and i felt great the rest of the day.
and one thing that i left out, he never asked for my permit. in fact, i offered it up, and he just grinned and said "dont worry about it, i already trust you.
it has crossed my mind that before he ever approached me that he had ran my plates, and new i had one.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Not to lead this thread off target, but Arkansas Times is a special case. It used to be a real magazine with subscribers, but has degenerated into one of those freebie rags you see lying around at airports and fast food joints.
The editorial staff has a fixation with homosexuality -- but can't figure out of they're for it or agin it. They love to label anyone to the right of Karl Marx as homosexual, but at the same time are quick to pin the bigot label on anyone else who would do that. There is currently pending an initiative to put the Right to Hunt in the Arkansas Constitution. They did an editorial where they said this would lead to a Deliverance-type situation, where hillbillies (how can you live in Arkansas and be anti-hillbilly?) would be homosexually raping tourists.
Anyhow, publishing the home address and home phone number of the miscreant soon brought a dose of reality -- albeit temporarialy -- to the editors.
HoosierQ
Member
I would not be without one and would not live in a state where I couldn't get one...if I could help it. I suppose somebody gives he $100million I'd move to Illinois but with that kind of cash I could keep a house in Indiana or Florida and that'd be that.
GBExpat
Member
Absolutely ... I got my first carry permit in VaBeach in April'75 and have been legally carrying on & off ever since. Never a hassle.
Ironically, back in '79, the one time that I got jumped at ~3am as I was leaving via the employee entrance of the place I worked in Norfolk, I beat heck out of the guy with my ubiquitous 6-C-cell KelLight (predecessor of the MagLight). At that place, my boss told me that firearms were forbidden so the KelLight was my personal security tool. Thank goodness, the fellow was stupid enough to simply grab me from behind and quickly found himself bleeding, screaming & running for his life ... <chuckle>
Lou McGopher
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Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but if a newspaper here was doing that (and one was a while ago), I'd volunteer to come down, and have them take my picture as long as they captioned it "This is (my name), and he carries a gun." Then they could put a video on their website of me doing quick draws and hitting COM on silhouettes at 25 yards. Now, maybe the criminal element in society wouldn't read the paper that day, but if they did, they'd know better than to mess with me if they saw me.
Edit:
Maybe more permit holders should take advantage of the publicity? It shouldn't be hard to use this publication tactic against those employing it. Turn it around for our advantage.
FiREhAwk
Member
I didnt like having to submit my fingerprints into "The System" It kinda makes you feel like you are a criminal or they are expecting that you are going to commit a crime. Also in the extreme case of a gun ban w/o a GF clause people with CCW's will draw alot of heat. One of the people who took the class with me still hasnt applied because he sees it as defato registration and only criminals should have to give fingerprints. (I know that most cops and anyone taken to jail who are not convicted must also give prints.) On the plus side, In my 8 yrs of driving I was given a ticket every time I was pulled for something. Earlier this year I was pulled over and given a warning for the first time, and I think the ccw had something to do with it, as I have been ticketed for much minor violations.
Vern Humphrey
Member
With that kind of money, you could buy a dozen Chicago aldermen with your pocket change, and they'd get you a permit.
Had my Ohio CCW since it was passed. I have no cons, only pros. Haven't gotten a ticket since.
I also see no pros to carrying a baton. Seems like you're putting yourself in danger and yielding a civil suit in the process. Carry a spray if you're not comfortable with a gun. You're not going to put distance on an attacker with an asp.
I also see no pros to carrying a baton. Seems like you're putting yourself in danger and yielding a civil suit in the process. Carry a spray if you're not comfortable with a gun. You're not going to put distance on an attacker with an asp.
Vern Humphrey
Member
There's an old saying; "Sure as smackin' 'em with an ASP."
No, that's not it. Maybe. "Sure as sprayin' 'em with OC?"
That doesn't sound right, either. Someone help me out.
And to add to my original list...here is reason #4 why you should get a permit...
#4. Because you need to carry ALWAYS. (Within bounds of the law.) Get the permit and wherever you are allowed to carry... carry your weapon with you. Think of it as "insurance" against criminals. Remember....criminals don't make appointments. They attack at the most unexpected times.
Guns are true equalizers...allowing a 120 pound woman to defend herself against a determined 200 pound attacker.
#4. Because you need to carry ALWAYS. (Within bounds of the law.) Get the permit and wherever you are allowed to carry... carry your weapon with you. Think of it as "insurance" against criminals. Remember....criminals don't make appointments. They attack at the most unexpected times.
Guns are true equalizers...allowing a 120 pound woman to defend herself against a determined 200 pound attacker.
bigfatdave
Member
Just go through the hassle of getting it now, rather than go through the hassle of getting it after you decide you need it.
Seriously, it isn't that hard.
Seriously, it isn't that hard.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
Yep, I have not gotten a ticket that I probably would have gotten a couple times befor. The LEO sometimes tends to forget about the 'minor' offences (Seatbelt, speeding violation) and suddenly wants to check out your guns or other weapons (and your licence) to see if they are stolen or whatever. When he gets through checking things out he often
A: has forgotten about the minor violation
B: decides you must be one of the good guys
C: is low on time and ready to go home.
I don't what it is but around here having a legal weapon and a permit will make thing go more smoothly (but will last longer) in your average traffic stop, so long as you are polite, civil, ect.
I'll also say this is certainly a location specific thing. LEO's in LA will act different from LEO's in Alabama.
I know one person who took the CWP class, got fingerprinted and put the whole application package together, but decided not to submit it. The reasoning was along the line of not needing it, b/c in our state you may have a loaded gun in your glove box, motel room, home.
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