Is a second American Revolution impossible?

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coltrane679

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http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/2006/061207_mfe_January_07_revolution.html

You Say You Want a Revolution

Well, you know, it ain't gonna happen. Not here.

By Chuck Klosterman

I do not want to overthrow the government. In case you misread that, I am going to type it again, this time more slowly: I. Do. Not. Want. To. Overthrow the government. I don't want black helicopters landing on the roof of my apartment building, and I don't want to be hunted by death squads through the jungles of Bolivia. I always pay my taxes. I think paying taxes is fun! If someone asks me if I enjoy the music of Rage Against the Machine, I usually say, "Oh, they were only okay." Whenever I see people using the metric system, I punch them in the pancreas.

However…

Something has been occupying my mind as of late, and I can't tell if this thought is reassuring or terrifying: I've been thinking about the possibility of revolution, or—more accurately—the impossibility of revolution. I've started wondering what would have to happen before the American populace would try to overthrow its own government, and how such a coup would play itself out. My conclusions are that a) nothing could make this happen, and b) no one would know what to do if it somehow did. The country is too large, its social systems are too complex, and its people are too complacent, too reasonable, and too confused. I've decided that the U. S. government is (for lack of a better, preexisting term) "unoverthrowable." And this would probably make a man like Patrick Henry profoundly depressed, were it not for the fact that he's been dead for 207 years.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants," wrote Thomas Jefferson, and his thoughts were far from unique: Almost all of the Founding Fathers were obsessed with the potential for insurgency on U. S. soil. "Future citizens will need muskets to assassinate their oppressive viceroys," James Madison might have hypothetically remarked during the intermission of a slave auction. "In fact, this is probably the second most important freedom any of us will be able to come up with. Somebody should write this **** down." Superficially, such preemptive legislation worked perfectly: There are now roughly two hundred million guns in America, and that's only counting the NBA's Eastern Conference. We have enough privately owned firepower to instantly kill a billion grizzly bears, plus a few dozen prostitutes. But it's hard to imagine these weapons employed in any kind of popular uprising, even if a majority of American adults unilaterally agreed that such an event was necessary. Whom would they presumably shoot? Probably no one, and possibly one another.

The central issue here, I suppose, is impetus: Americans are not particularly motivated to overthrow their government. But what if they were motivated? Would that even matter? In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, countless media whores criticized the government for not doing enough for the people of Louisiana. But let's imagine that the government had done even less; let's imagine that the president and most of Congress decided that New Orleans was a lost cause, barricaded all the roads into the city, and gave up. Let's pretend they made no attempts to relocate the survivors or deliver aid, and New Orleans was allowed to devolve into a rogue dystopia that was no longer recognized as part of the union. One assumes this would prompt cataclysmic outrage; it would be no different from the state-sponsored execution of random poor people, which seems like a revolt-worthy offense. Yet if such a nightmare scenario had actually happened, what could the average middle-class resident of Boise, Idaho (or anywhere else), have done? He'd lose faith in the democratic process, and he'd possibly update his blog. But that's about it. He has no options. He's twenty-two hundred miles from the ruins of Bourbon Street, he's twenty-four hundred miles from Washington, D. C., and he's got to be at work by 9:00 a.m., because he has a house (and he likes his house).

But—just for the sake of argument—let's assume this man still wants to push the envelope. Let's assume this patriot is beyond outraged. Maybe he just rented The Bourne Supremacy, and maybe he thinks the time for blogging has passed. Maybe he's ready to make some really bad choices for some really ethical principles. Maybe Neil Young's "Revolution Blues" comes on his iTunes, so he loads the .30-30 he just bought at Wal-Mart and walks into the street. What now? My aforementioned question remains unresolved: Whom, exactly, is this man supposed to shoot? A cop? The mayor of Boise? A FEMA employee? Whom would he be revolting against? Is it even possible for the modern man to know?

When trying to overthrow a regime, all those unanswerable questions matter. But then again, maybe they don't. I doubt most Americans would participate in a revolution, even if they understood (and supported) its cause completely. I was recently discussing this with a colleague of mine over lunch; we were trying to come up with conditions that could ignite a people's uprising we'd actively involve ourselves with. These possibilities ranged from "massive water shortage" (which could happen in India in the coming decade) to "political infiltration by flesh-eating panda zombies" (which happened in Nepal in 2005). My associate offered this scenario: "Suppose we had evidence that the federal government engineered 9/11," he said. "Suppose we had indisputable proof that we paid the Saudis to blow up the World Trade Center, and members from both political parties had signed off on it. And the day after this proof emerged, George W. Bush announced that he would give a speech at ground zero explaining why this decision was made. If this happened, I assume there would be a protest rally during his speech. And perhaps some people would start throwing rocks, and perhaps I'd be caught up in the frenzy, and perhaps I would start throwing rocks, too."

"So you would take part in the revolution's inception," I responded. "You would throw rocks at a corrupt president."

"Yes," he said. "Maybe. Or maybe not. Probably not. Who knows? I'm not really a rock-throwing kind of guy."

I'm not a rock-throwing kind of guy, either. Moreover, I assume the type of person who hurls rocks in public is not the type of person I would agree with about anything. Modernity has created a cosmic difference between intellect and action, even when both are driven by the same motives; as such, the only people qualified to lead a present-day revolution would never actually do so. Contemporary leaders are not rock-throwing guys. And this is a problem, because it's the rock throwers who get things done.

Here again, my feelings are mixed; maybe I shouldn't have used the word problem in my previous sentence. Perhaps I should have used the word luxury. I'm pretty sure there are numerous countries in this world where citizens dream of a society too rational to be influenced by rock throwers.¹ Security has a way of making philosophy irrelevant, and anyone who disagrees is either a liar or a tenured professor. But there's still something ominous about the reality of our sanctuary. It seems weird that this is the country and there's nothing we can do about it, beyond participating in the system that's already in place. It would not matter what the government did or to whom they did it—nobody knows how to change things in any meaningful way, and the only people who'd try are dangerous and insane. We have reached a point where the reinvention of America is impossible, even if that were what we wanted. Even if that were what everybody wanted.

You might think the government is corrupt, and you might be right. But I'm surprised it isn't worse. I'm surprised they don't shoot us in the street. It's not like we could do anything about it, except maybe die.

¹Although I can't be totally sure that this is true, as these are all countries I will never, ever f--king visit.
 
I don't see violent revolution as a possibility. But there is always the potential for a sudden change as happened all over Eastern Europe and more recently in parts of the former Soviet Union. When enough people stop believing in the fiction that that group of people in the big building is the government the magic stops. When the magic stops it isn't a government any longer.
 
I don't believe we could have a "planned" revolution. As in, groups in different cities coordinating attacks, etc.

However, I could see an event that winds up being the spark that starts a fire. People protest angrily, and maybe someone goes overboard in trying to reassert control. Shots are fired, a kid or grandmother goes down. It's possible that things could reach a critical mass, especially if some senior government agent decided that applying more and more force was the answer.

Likely? Probably not very. People who lead terrible lives might be very quick to revolt. But most people have roofs over their heads, clothes on their back, and food in their stomach. Bread and circuses is enough for most of the sheep.
 
It would be more likely to see what happened in the 60's. When massive police and military units were used it only fueled the cause for the protestors. Say, Chicago/Kent State.

Jim
 
Revolutions are generally products of escalation.

The governing authority tells someone or some group "do this" or "give us that". That someone or group says "no." The authority pushes, the pushee pushes back hard enough to make the authority fall back, regroup, and think about what to do next. In the mean time, others rally round and when the authority returns there is a bigger force to push on then last time.

Alternately, the authority overcomes those who push back. People are killed, and instead of cowering in fear others become enraged and take up arms. Then this escalates into full blown revolution.
 
There are actually mass revolutions in this country all the time. There was one on November 7. The only reason the American people would ever need to 'revolt' is if the governemnt decided to suspend the normal pattern of revolution called voting.

Nio
 
I don't think the author considers revolution in the context it would actually be neccessary. Revolution isn't for when inadequate aid is given by a government to a disaster area, revolution is for when you no longer vote or your votes no longer count. Revolution is for when the government begins to kill its citizens. It requires the ultimate threat to life or liberty.. In situations like those there would be no ambiguity of who would be a target. I imagine several people in Nazi Germany would have had no doubt who to train their rifle sights on for example.

The nifty thing is that while a population remains armed and capable of defending themselves against a corrupt government, the government seems far less likely to turn on its citizens. When citizens become defenseless is when they will most likely truly need arms.
 
Tellner hit it... 20 years ago nobody would have believed that the USSR could fall. Fall it did, Christmas day of 1991. It wasn't a shooting war (for the most part), but it was in fact a revolution.

Chuck Klosterman needs to read John Ross's book :)

An all out 'army of citizens marching on DC' type of revolution is unlikely, but assassination of government officials who themselves have performed acts of treason? Entirely believable to me! :uhoh:

As Claire Wolfe said... Don't shoot the ______'s (yet)
 
Tellner,

You have made an excellent point. However, in the Soviet Union, where the process truly mattered, it was almost a top-down experience. Soviet leadership realized that the emperor had no clothes. The people knew it all along.

Once the top unravels, the rest follows.
 
People can be pushed only so far.Be it a small group or large,they will eventuall revolt,be it a political revolt(preferrable) or a violent one.We are not sheep although many in politics like to think so.These are the same people (Mayor Daly of Chicago) who believe they are entitled to rule and believe they are unaccountabe and untouchable,which to some extent they are, permitted as they are by our so called Justice system.
History is replete with examples of both political and violent changes in government We in America have been civilized to the point of obsurdity and it will take a great awakining to bring about any change.What that will be is anyones guess.It is a matter of when not if....Just my humble opinion.


Deny not to others that which you demand for yourself.
 
Possible? I guess under the right circumstances, anything is possible.

neccessary? I can't imagine that it would be in the forseeable future. Our system of government is pretty stable and self-healing. It would take a pretty severe breach of the constitution, like a president refusing to leave office at the end of his term. In addition, a signifigant portion of the people would have to violently support both sides, otherwise it would be easily resolved.
 
All I'm going to say on the topic is this:

You will never, ever see _serious_ discussion of this topic in the mainstream media by anyone who knows anything of substance that is actually, you know, germane to the topic

The very most you will see is a tongue in cheek article that concludes the impossibility of the task.

Just like this one.

I find it _fascinating_, however, that the topic is even broached. Signs of certain elements of the zietgiest coming to the surface?
 
Soybomb: "I imagine several people in Nazi Germany would have had no doubt who to train their rifle sights on for example."

Except, mostly, they didn't actually go out and do it.
 
don't need revolution

So far, our government has had enough checks and balances that there has been no need of a revolution. It just hasn't overstepped its bounds enough to justify violent revolt.

You could argue that this is because of our right to keep and bear arms, that the government is afraid to go too far for fear of armed revolt. I'm sure there is an element of truth to that, but I suspect it has more to do with the rest of the bill of rights. The government can't sieze your property or throw you in jail without cause, and anyone in a position of power who tries it gets fired or indicted. There is no need to assassinate them or take to the streets. The system (eventually) weeds out its own tyrants.

(Yes, yes. I know all about eminent domain and Bush's suspension of habeas corpus. These things are troubling shadows, but as of now not much more than shadows.)
 
At the risk of threadjack, I feel the need to respond to this:

(Yes, yes. I know all about eminent domain and Bush's suspension of habeas corpus. These things are troubling shadows, but as of now not much more than shadows.)

First off, THERE ARE INDEED SERIOUS ABUSES that have me DEEPLY concerned.

What concerns me even more is that even amongst ourselves, people who are generally well informed and interested in liberty don't have a clear view of what those abuses are and what they aren't.

For example, Bush did NOT suspend habeus corpus. The devil's in the details there, but a thread thrashed that out, a close reading of the law reasonably demonstrating that the act in question cannot be deemed to apply to citizens.

Another example is that of the wiretapping circus, the main cases of which have either an international component, or what most folks would recognize as probable cause attached to them. Again, the devil's in the details, but the popular conception is that we're all being listened in on.

The media distorts the danger in a fit of biased frenzy, and as a result, people are alarmed at things that are smoke and mirrors, while ignoring the bits that actually ARE dangerous.

Misdirection is the magician's stock in trade.
 
"Wouldn't the Civil War count as the 2nd (failed) American Revolution?"

No, the Southern states didn't want control of the entire country, they just wanted to be left to govern themselves. In fact, it really doesn't qualify as a civil war either.

John
 
Well, if the Fed is willing to let between 618,000 to 700,000 people die in the civil war -- which wasn't even a revolution... imagine how many people they would let die to prevent an actual revolution.

BTW, more Americans were killed in the civil war than both world wars combined. I think that helps illustrate the level to which our .gov will go to stop a revolution here (think, chemical, biological, nuclear).
 
Well, if the Fed is willing to let between 618,000 to 700,000 people die in the civil war -- which wasn't even a revolution... imagine how many people they would let die to prevent an actual revolution.

BTW, more Americans were killed in the civil war than both world wars combined. I think that helps illustrate the level to which our .gov will go to stop a revolution here (think, chemical, biological, nuclear).

I actually think the number of dealths associated with the War Between the States is a bit misleading from a standpoint of what is the government willing to do. The high number's, IMO, are associated more to the level of technology vs. the tactics used during the war. Rifles were more acurate, and the common tactic of the day was to stand in lines and send volleys back and forth. That's just a recipie for death, not an indication of how far they were willing to go.

A better argument for your point of view would be the viciousness of Sherman and his march to the sea.
 
Soybomb: "I imagine several people in Nazi Germany would have had no doubt who to train their rifle sights on for example."

Except, mostly, they didn't actually go out and do it.
I was always under the impression that gun control and confiscation came in Germany before the genocide. I'm certainly open to correction to the contrary but I thought most of the people who should have been shooting were disarmed by then and quite probably had no idea of their fate when they were disarmed.
 
Local abuses are best escaped by moving (Chicago to Missoula, for example). Federal abuses...cheaper to buy the way around them than to fight. In other words, people who are competent to make a revolution happen are usually better off under status quo. Also, no one can predict which group in a coalition necessary to effect a revolution would hold power after it. The likelihood of having to fight former comrades is high.
 
I sure hope it doesn't happen, and I sure hope nothing happens that would justify a violent revolution. But if it did, I think it would go down sort of like in one of my favorite movies, V for Vendetta. If you haven't seen it, go rent it, and you'll know what I mean.

But all I know for sure is this... I never, ever, EVER want to have to shoot at my own countrymen, or anyone else, for that matter.
 
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