Is Ramshot Competition a substitute for WST in the .45 ACP?

[Buck13]

I keep being told WST is a bit better for accuracy than W231, but WST isn't in stock anywhere near me.

However, Ramshot Competition is available and, on paper, it looks similar to WST in burn rate and volumetric density. Can anyone attest to it also being better than W231, or am I splitting hairs here?

 

[markr6754]

I don't have experience with Ramshot Competition, but it's a bunch faster than WST, which I do use in my 45 Auto. Still, by my chart Competition sits well up at #6 in the Shotgun powders. WST weighs in at #22, then W231/HP-38 comes in at #29.
Just by powder burn I'd be checking our Ramshot True Blue before touching Competition. True Blue sits above WST at #21.

 

[Walkalong]

Competition gives nearly the same results as WST for me in light loads in .38 Spl brass with 148 gr WCs, and .357 cases with 158 SWCs. It takes one tenth less Competition (My lots) to equal WST. Looks similar as well, but has more nitro content.

No reason it wouldn't do similarly in .45 ACP which also operates at fairly low pressure, albeit more than .38 Spl.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

I use competition in 45 acp.

 

[BBarn]

I burned a pound of Competition in a few different handgun cartridges and found it similar to other fast flake powders. It's only 12oz per bottle (75% of a pound and therefore more expensive) and I found no compelling reason to buy more. I generally use American Select, W231/HP-38 or Sport Pistol for those type applications.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

A while back @bigpower491 advised me to try Competition in .45ACP, especially with the Berry’s 200gr PHP. I got the 200gr RN instead (they were half price) and the same load (4.5gr) is just as clean burning and accurate as my 4.6gr load of WST under a 200gr LSWC. I have found Competition to be a little less forgiving of either heavy return springs or lighter loads. Once you find the sweet spot you will be very happy with it.

 

[Saluki91]

I keep being told WST is a bit better for accuracy than W231, but WST isn't in stock anywhere near me.

However, Ramshot Competition is available and, on paper, it looks similar to WST in burn rate and volumetric density. Can anyone attest to it also being better than W231, or am I splitting hairs here?

File this under "For what it's worth"...

At the height of the Covid pandemonium, Ramshot Comp was all I could get for skeet loads. When I would get to the bottom of the powder bottle, I used the remaining powder to load a few .45ACP rounds. Those rounds were a pleasant surprise. Out of my 1911, they proved to be very accurate. I fully admit that this is likely just "Feel vs Real", but the Ramshot loads seemed to be soft shooting as well.

I have been toying with HP38, Bullseye, Unique, WST, Accurate No. 5, etc. in my .45ACP - largely because the voices from the internet say that I should. None of them are any more accurate than the Ramshot.

 

[lordpaxman]

I’ve not used competition before, it’s on my buy list for the future so I’m interested in what you find out. I do use WST and think it’s really good in .45 and others- it’s one of my major competition loads. This thread is a perfect example of why I’ve developed loads for different powders.

 

[Buck13]

I guess I should add VihtaVouri N320 to this question, since its characteristics seem close to R Comp. I don't remember if the store I was in had any, but I didn't look because I wasn't very familiar with it.

I use a Lee Perfect powder measure, so whatever runs most consistently through that sort of meter would be best.

 

[Walkalong]

N-320 works great in .45 ACP, as does N-310. I like N-340 for "full power" .45 ACP, among others.

 

[Buck13]

N-320 works great in .45 ACP, as does N-310. I like N-340 for "full power" .45 ACP, among others.

Any problems with powder drop with either this or R Comp?

 

[N555]

What is "better"?
If you want the most accurate and economical 230gr loads I have ever seen, approximately 4.5gr of wst under a 230gr fmj this the most accurate consisload I have ever tested. SD was almost single digit, but it only throws bullets at about 700fps. The hollow points I was interested in didn't want to open up at 700fps. So it's basically for loading ballammo.

W231 is better if you want accurate 800+fps 230gr shots, but for me its never been as accurate as wst throwing those 230gr bullets at 700.

 

[Palladan44]

The difference could sway in favor of one or the other, and could vary from load to load, grain to grain, or from gun to gun.
Hell, maybe even day to day!

 

[Walkalong]

Any problems with powder drop with either this or R Comp?

I have no idea about R Comp, but the Vihtavuori pistol powders meter very well to great, depending on kernel size, with no hang ups in my 10X.

 

[Buck13]

What is "better"?
If you want the most accurate and economical 230gr loads I have ever seen, approximately 4.5gr of wst under a 230gr fmj this the most accurate consisload I have ever tested. SD was almost single digit, but it only throws bullets at about 700fps. The hollow points I was interested in didn't want to open up at 700fps. So it's basically for loading ballammo.

W231 is better if you want accurate 800+fps 230gr shots, but for me its never been as accurate as wst throwing those 230gr bullets at 700.

Not concerned about expansion. This is only for target shooting, mainly with 185 and 200 grain pills. Probably not beyond 50 yards. If I want to shoot silhouettes at 100 yards with a 1911 I’ll probably use my 9 mm.

 

[N555]

Don't know if wst was the best powder for 185 and 200gr. Never tried it.
I hear it works good with lighter bullets.

 

[Blue68f100]

Not concerned about expansion. This is only for target shooting, mainly with 185 and 200 grain pills. Probably not beyond 50 yards. If I want to shoot silhouettes at 100 yards with a 1911 I’ll probably use my 9 mm.

I use my 1911 45acp and/or 9mm to shoot steel gongs (8") at 100 yrds. It's a lot of fun. Took me a few shots to get the drop correction. These are with the 185gr and WST loads. I have over 10 lbs of WST so I'm not looking to change powders anytime soon.

 

[markr6754]

I have no idea about R Comp, but the Vihtavuori pistol powders meter very well to great, depending on kernel size, with no hang ups in my 10X.

I love Vihtavuori powders, and would buy more if a LGS carried it. The one shop that I bought my last bottles of N320 haven't had stock for over 2 years.
That said, while I've had some success metering VV powders, my Hornady powder rotor cuts the N320 sticks far too often for my liking. Happily I was forced to buy a Frankford Arsenal Intellidropper, and that sucker loves everything I feed it.

 

[lordpaxman]

I guess I should add VihtaVouri N320 to this question, since its characteristics seem close to R Comp.

I haven’t found a caliber that doesn’t like N320. It’ll do just fine in .45. Others have indicated N310 is good as well, I haven’t had the opportunity to try that yet, but hope to. Even though N320 is a stick, it meters really well out of a Hornady or Dillon measure. I don’t have a Lee measure, so no help there.

 

[Buck13]

I haven’t found a caliber that doesn’t like N320. It’ll do just fine in .45. Others have indicated N310 is good as well, I haven’t had the opportunity to try that yet, but hope to. Even though N320 is a stick, it meters really well out of a Hornady or Dillon measure. I don’t have a Lee measure, so no help there.

I think the Lee's biggest weakness is that the fit of the plastic drum isn't "perfect," despite the name, so very small grains can be a problem. IIRC although they have fairly small grains AA#9 or IMR4227 worked beautifully, but H110 binds the drum and makes it really hard to work the meter, so I resort to hand-weighing each charge when I want to use H110. I guess the grains of H110 are just a little smaller than those others.

 

[Buck13]

I think the Lee's biggest weakness is that the fit of the plastic drum isn't "perfect," despite the name, so very small grains can be a problem. IIRC, although they have fairly small grains AA#9 or IMR4227 worked beautifully, but H110 binds the drum and makes it really hard to work the meter, so I usually resort to hand-weighing each charge when I want to use H110, which is fine since I shoot those top magnum loads in small quantities. I guess the grains of H110 are just a little smaller than those others.

 

[LiveLife]

.45 ACP ... I keep being told WST is a bit better for accuracy than W231, but WST isn't in stock anywhere near me.

... only for target shooting, mainly with 185 and 200 grain ... 50 yards

Accurate .45ACP load with 185/200 gr bullets for lighter target shooting is essentially bullseye match load.

And faster burning powders that can produce consistent/efficient enough powder burn at lower charges are better suited for this application, so we are looking at faster burning than W231/HP-38 powders.

Here's a grouping of faster burning powders and around WST burn rate, you are looking at Red Dot/Promo, Bullseye, Titegroup, N320, Sport Pistol, No 2, Clean Shot, etc. (BTW, Competition is faster burning than WST) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/i-give-up.910844/#post-12420196

Faster burning pistol powders:

E3 - Competition - Nitro 100 - N310 - Norma R1

Red Dot/Promo - IMR Red - Clays - 700X - Bullseye - Vectan Ba 10 - IMR Target - TiteGroup - Vectan AS - Am. Select - Solo 1000 - WST - International - Trail Boss - N320 - Sport Pistol - Vectan Ba 9.5 - No. 2 - Clean Shot/Lovex D032.03

W231/HP-38 - Zip - Green Dot - IMR Green
​

And if you are looking for accurate loads, check out this bullseye match load comparison done with 15 shot groups at 25 yards using Ransom Rest - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/i-give-up.910844/page-2#post-12421064

• Sierra 185 gr JHP N310 1.200" COL 4.1 gr (756 fps) 1.46" WLP
• Zero 185 gr JHP Clays 1.200" COL 4.0 gr (675 fps) 1.49" WLP
• Zero 185 gr JHP 700-X 1.200" COL 4.8 gr (799 fps) 1.54" CCI 300
• Zero 185 gr JHP Bullseye 1.200" 4.9 gr (826 fps) 1.55" WLP
  
• Sierra 185 gr JHP WST 1.200" COL 4.5 gr (740 fps) 1.35" WLP
• Zero 185 gr JHP Titegroup 1.200" 4.6 gr (789 fps) 1.44" Federal 150M
  
• Sierra 185 gr JHP N320 1.200" COL 5.2 gr (784 fps) 1.75" Federal 150M
• Zero 185 gr JHP W231 1.200" COL 5.0 gr (709 fps) 1.28" CCI 300
• Zero 185 gr JHP W231 1.200" COL 5.3 gr (771 fps) 1.22" WLP
• Hornady 185 gr XTP W231 1.240" 5.6 gr (801 fps) 1.35" WLP

 

[Buck13]

And if you are looking for accurate loads, check out this bullseye match load comparison done with 15 shot groups at 25 yards using Ransom Rest - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/i-give-up.910844/page-2#post-12421064

• Sierra 185 gr JHP N310 1.200" COL 4.1 gr (756 fps) 1.46" WLP
• Zero 185 gr JHP Clays 1.200" COL 4.0 gr (675 fps) 1.49" WLP
• Zero 185 gr JHP 700-X 1.200" COL 4.8 gr (799 fps) 1.54" CCI 300
• Zero 185 gr JHP Bullseye 1.200" 4.9 gr (826 fps) 1.55" WLP
  
• Sierra 185 gr JHP WST 1.200" COL 4.5 gr (740 fps) 1.35" WLP
• Zero 185 gr JHP Titegroup 1.200" 4.6 gr (789 fps) 1.44" Federal 150M
  
• Sierra 185 gr JHP N320 1.200" COL 5.2 gr (784 fps) 1.75" Federal 150M
• Zero 185 gr JHP W231 1.200" COL 5.0 gr (709 fps) 1.28" CCI 300
• Zero 185 gr JHP W231 1.200" COL 5.3 gr (771 fps) 1.22" WLP
• Hornady 185 gr XTP W231 1.240" 5.6 gr (801 fps) 1.35" WLP

Are those the Zero JHPs with the skives, or the ones that look like Hornady HAPs? Or do both work well?

 

[LiveLife]

Are those the Zero JHPs with the skives, or the ones that look like Hornady HAPs?

Pictures of bullets used are shown here - https://files.osgnetworks.tv/11/files/2018/06/Bullseye-list.jpg