Is the 357 fading away?

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I've been trying to search around for some ballistics gel tests of the .357 that compares various rounds and bullet weights and I can't find any. The only test I found was on brassfetcher and they only tested gold dots. Anybody found anything better.
 
just my experience

When I first started shooting, I knew I was going to be the revolver guy. I wanted to be old school, and *knew* revolvers were the gold standard of reliability. Easy to clean, easy to operate, no field stripping, no mags, etc. Other than rifles, I had shot nothing but my dad's taurus .38spl. I shot it well, so I bought a Ruger .357mag for myself. It was great. Thousands of rounds through it before I ever even tried an auto. Never cared much about size and weight to capacity ratios, or the latest technology, and knew not much in autos touched the .357mag A.F.A. performance. N.T.M. wood and S.S. and fluted cylinder looked so much better than flat black alloy (much less plastic).

So I was amazed to find out just how much more accurately, fast, and comfortably I could shoot with glocks and sigs. Looks and style wnet right out the window. And in the revolver, I mostly stuck with .38spl, because I found the magnum's recoil to be sharp. So I figured in autos I'd better stick with 9mm. Then I discovered the jump from 9mm to .45acp was nothing like .38spl to .357mag. I actually preferred how the lower pressure .45 handled, more recoil but it seemed soft somehow. I was sold.

And that wasn't even the biggest surprise- my autos were somehow more reliable than those two particular revolvers (though I am certain this is not the general trend, so was not as big a factor as ergonomics in my conversion). N.T.M. I found that CLEANING wasn't even easier like I thought with revolvers. I didn't realize how fast autos F.S.'d for cleaning, and with only one tube to clean vs 7 tubes (all relatively fixed to the frame)- I could never get all the rings out of the chambers, especially after a good 400-500 round day (minor, minor point here).

ANyways, is the .357mag "fading away"? HARDLY (all this is only why it faded from MY collection)! Extremely versatile round with top shelf performance makes it arguably the number one choice for many for an "only" gun, nightstand gun, forget about it for years and know it will work gun, etc. Revolvers are more accurate (mechanically) than most autos, and are a simple proven design that will continue to be popular for years to come, and the .357 is the probably the most popular of those. I do miss simply ejecting all brass into the box. Even with the most consistently ejecting autos, I still use a tarp and get L.O.L.'d at.

But what's a little surprising is (in this thread), usually the revolver/.357mag crowd is a little more mature (I.E. if your favorite is not my favorite, you are either "young" or "brainwashed", etc).
 
"eclipsed"? What do you mean by that? The .40 and the 9mm X 19 still can't out perform the .357 magnum...Could you mean by "eclipsed" that the .357 magnum just fell out of favor with the populas...??
 
Before this descends into a power debate...note that the power of a caliber doesn't determine its failure or success...and because something "new and wonderful" in its class comes along and edges it out of its ranking...that it automatically becomes less desireable/useful or what have you.

Throughout the last century, many cartridges have been completely outclassed...but they hang on.
Their names are immediately recognized. .30-30 Winchester. .45-70 Government. .45 Colt. .41 Remington Magnum. Even the .30-96 and the .308 Winchester have become quaint and antiquated...yet they persevere.

So...There's more to it than velocity and energy...or "knockdown" power.
 
yes and no...

It's 2008 and in time I think many DA/DA only revolvers in .38spl or .357mag will become fewer and fewer. :rolleyes:
The semi auto pistol is just a far better sidearm/handgun and with advancements in production and ammo, it's a smarter choice.
I like revolvers I feel the .357magnum will have a limited US market but it will never be as common as it was 15-25 yrs ago in the US. ;)

Small frame .38spl/.357mag revolvers will be big sellers in the US but not the K/L/N frame handguns.

Rusty
 
The .357 will always be around. Just look at the .44 spl, the .45lc, the 22 hornet, the 10mm, the .50ae, and the 357sig. All are less popular that the .357 mag. and all are still redily available. No worries mate! People will love the BOOM of the .357 long after we are gone.
 
Small frame .38spl/.357mag revolvers will be big sellers in the US but not the K/L/N frame handguns
Click to expand...

I think they'll continue to sell in these frames; especially with hunters. I'd much rather have a revolver by my side in the field than my XD in whatever caliber. To me a semi-auto just seems really out of place in that environment.
 
The timing of this topic is funny to me as I just took my 13yr old son who always wants to know everything about all my autos but never inquires or even gives the GP100 or SP101 as 2nd glance. After all was said and done he told me that he preferred my sp101 to any of my autos and found the wheelgun more enjoyable to shoot (he did prefer the .38+p's to the .357). So I know at least one who will carry on the tradition in my family after I'm gone and my 10yr old daughter only likes the revolvers so hopefully she'll appreciate them as well.
 
reading, writing and interpretations

"Bushmaster:"

By eclipsed, I mean overshadowed, like when the earth overshadows the moon, and, well, you know.

Yes sir, eclipsed it in popular esteem, recognition and public awareness.

Power comparisons. All those are in black and white, available for any shooter to research.

I have to laugh! When I read posts and replies here, there are so many that love their guns and calibers that I could insult their wives all day long and not get one rise out of them, but just mention the caliber and use any adjective connected with it, and blam! Like a ND, there it goes. Are you disparaging my gun sir? Fight'n words.
 
Not offended here...Just continuing the conversation...I like my .45 ACP too. Not to mention the other revolvers and autos that take up a lot of space in my safe...And no...You wouldn't want to insult my wife. I'm one of the lucky ones and have a good one. Even after 28 years...

But I do know what you are saying. L O L
 
I think it's too early to publish the obituary. :)

If I had to reduce the current quiver to one pistol for HD and all-round use, it might very well be the S&W686 or the SP101 that wins out, in the final analysis. In an HD / SD situation, it's probably going to be a point and shoot situation. Revolvers excel at that. In addition: in summer, the 442 gets much more carry time than the others.
 
New to me Ruger

I had a heart to heart talk with my preacher yesterday, and he's going to trade me a Ruger .357 for a smaller carry gun. The Ruger is worth about $350, has a long barrel, and I told him I would trade him a Smith 4006 for it (I have 2). I need to clean it up because I shot it all day Saturday, and I would be satisfied with either gun... but I've always wanted one of the Rugers like this one... so it's a "win-win" for both of us. I want the .357 so I don't have to shoot my Model 19 Smith & Wesson that looks like new.

He just retired, and his son is a parole officer, so he's up to speed on what's going on "on the streets" these days, and his son has been pushing him to get his CWP. I told him that I would swap guns with him or buy another gun if he found a "sissie pistol" he liked better (polymer)... but we're dealing in about the $350 range... so I'm thinking the 4006 isn't a bad deal for him.

I carry "full sized" guns... not sissies, and the more lead in the pencil, the more you can write... so I'm not as concerned with getting him a concealable gun as I am one with more rounds and good stopping power. He really likes my Makarov as well, but I think my arm would go with that one...:D

Anyway, if the .357 is dying off, please send me all the bodies...:D I absolutely love shooting my model 19, and I have a feeling that I'll have a mini-love affair with the new Ruger as well. Some guns just "fit your hand"...
hopefully, we'll both be happy.

WT
 
No, not fading away at all. Maybe just not frequenting the circles where it is revered.
 
When I started out my journey to buy my first handgun it was going to be a .357. I was convinced by my wife(a much better shooter than me) and others to learn with a .22LR. I still want that .357 though. I'm 29 and new to shooting
 
The 357 is the swiss army knife of pistol cartridges. I have 148gr wadcutter loads that my 8 y/o niece goes thru like candy. Then I have some 180gr loads that most sane folks would steer clear of.

The wife totes a 357 snubby around and shoots a real nasty firebreathing 125gr load out of it. She prefers it to the sharp recoil of a 9. Of course, she ain't no sweet little princess either, that woman be about 5 shades of mean.

And since we've started with the pictures, here's one of my favorites with a little sister.

100_1807_edited.gif
 
So far, most people think that "young folks" just aren't interested in revolvers, much less the "expensive" .357.

Of course, I'm young and I just sold my second to last .357. I bought another .38, a Webley, and a .22lr revolver...
 
.357 magnum dying???

You've got to be kidding me. The .357 magnum is one of the best handgun cartidge ever made. I would expect .40 S&W to die before the .357 magnum. .357 magnum revolvers are about as versatile as a handgun could be. Powder-puff .38 specials all the way up to 180 Buffalo Bore hardcast ammo. That power range covers just about every application that most people would ever need.

I'm only 35, but I prefer revolvers over autoloaders. Like many, I started shooting with autoloaders. After about a year of agonizing over my first centerfire handgun purchase, I decided that revolvers would make a better choice for home defense. After shooting a GP100 and a 686p, I realized that I could actually hit what I aimed for with a medium-framed, stainless revolver. My autoloader groups always looked like a shotgun blast. I reasoned that I could end most threats with two shots with a revolver. I would have to spray and pray with an autoloader. Given that I don't really want to kill my neighbors, I decided that it would be best to stick with something that I could shoot accurately and would force me to take good shots.
 
Yesterday, 02:47 AM #101

XDShooter07 wrote:

I've been trying to search around for some ballistics gel tests of the .357 that compares various rounds and bullet weights and I can't find any. The only test I found was on brassfetcher and they only tested gold dots. Anybody found anything better.
__________________
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You might try the terminal effects forum. Here is an example:

from:

http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=001041#000010






Valmara69
unregistered


posted 09-21-2005 00:13
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I am considering buying a S&W model revolver in 357 Mag. It appears to be a nice handgun...my question:

Does a .357 Mag offer better terminal ballistics than a 9mm luger pistol?
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Unreconstructed Gordon
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posted 09-21-2005 10:05
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See the Gelatin tests just posted and make your decision.

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"Though a thousand fall at your side,and ten thousand at your right hand,it will not reach you or touch you."
Psalm 91:7

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DocGKR
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posted 09-21-2005 10:40
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.357 Mag can certainly offer adequate terminal ballistics, however, there is a reason very few agencies issue .357 mag revolvers for self-defense/force protection purposes anymore...I personally would prefer a good 9 mm pistol over a .357 mag revolver for SD/duty use.
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Queen Anne's Revenge
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posted 09-21-2005 20:09
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Golly, I remember not to long ago (well, it doesn't seem that long ago to me ) when the question was whether the 9mm was as good as the .357. My, how times change. Buy what you want and you then will practice with it and then you will be good with it and then you will have something which may perform what you want of it.
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Valmara69
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posted 09-21-2005 20:39
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Thanks for the replies Doc, and Queen Anne.

I have a Missouri CCW, and I was thinking about buying a 357mag mated to a Crimson Trace laser grip. I figured with the proper ammo, I.E. Gold Dot...the .357 might offer superior penetration to 9mm. However, obviously you get plenty more shots with a 9mm.

I have been thinking about getting a carry gun mated to a laser grip for some time now. It's not that I'am a poor shot; I use to be on a university level pistol team. It is because I figure that the laser grip would offer a tactical advantage in a bad situation. Esp. if I am attacked in a low light situation. Furthermore, I figure that the laser would offer faster target acquistion, and a greater degree of accuracy while under stress. Also it would free my sight picture from the rear/front sight alignment with the fuzzy target...to one of just focusing on the target (attacker) and on what he is doing with his hands. I was also thinking that it would might also require fewer shots to bring the attacker down, by using a well positioned red dot. Thus, I through wheelguns into my option list. Normally, I would stick with a semi-auto because I appreciate having more shots in the weapon.

What do you guys think? Are the advantages that I perceive just that...or are they actual? I have never used a laser grip, so I can't say with absolute certainty that the tactical benefits that I list are true.

Additionally, are there any other Lasergrip/ handgun platforms that are worthy of conderation?
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Queen Anne's Revenge
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posted 09-22-2005 14:51
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Be careful about lasers. If you are going to look for anything in a fight, look for your front sight. You may want to consider tritium inserts instead. Remember, train as you want to fight because you will surely fight as you train.

Bear in mind that tactical shooting is fighting with a gun and bears little or no resemblance to the sport of target shooting. Think of the differences between a surgeon removing a bunion with a scalpel and Jack-the-Ripper eviscerating a hooker.
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DrJSW
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posted 09-22-2005 20:07
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quote:
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Originally posted by Queen Anne's Revenge:
Bear in mind that tactical shooting is fighting with a gun and bears little or no resemblance to the sport of target shooting. Think of the differences between a surgeon removing a bunion with a scalpel and Jack-the-Ripper eviscerating a hooker.
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QAR... nice analogy! There is an argument to be made, though, that the use of a laser-dot sighting system actually improves hit probability in high-stress situations. I am not aware of any actual departmental data anywhere that bears this out, however. Time will tell, I suspect.

Valmara69... I am aware of several agencies and operators who have adopted laser sighting systems for specific tactical apps, and there seems to be a growing consensus of approval. But it's hardly a groundswell at this point in time.

FWIW: I think there is plenty of evidence to support the use of full-power 357 Magnum ammunition for duty or defense by dedicated personnel. I am a pretty successful IDPA competitor in Stock Service Revolver division, and my favorite competition revolver is a S&W 686. I usually shoot 38 Spl +P ammo in it but have used full-power 357 Magnum defense/duty ammo (125 gr and 158 gr) in a few matches and have found it only slightly slower than the 38's. But keep in mind that the 686 is a fairly hefty revolver, and I train a LOT with this gun. Then consider the fact that despite my proficiency with wheelguns, I rarely carry a 357 Magnum revolver as my primary defensive/duty handgun, and then only under quite unique circumstances. I happen to prefer to carry a 1911 in .45 ACP, but would have no insecurities when carrying my department's duty guns, the Glock 22 or Glock 17.
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Queen Anne's Revenge
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posted 09-22-2005 20:50
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DrJSW,
I am not saying that lasers are without merit, only that in my experience, when a person spends lots o' time training to see something, generally, when that something is the front sight, times and hits improve, especially under stress. I also believe that many people will spend more time "looking for the dot" especially in light or bright conditions, that using the front sight would be faster. Finally, at the ranges most civilians will use a defensive pistol, the laser may not be an accuracy advantage. After all, if a civie is called upon to return fire at 25-50 yards, a strong argument can be made that he/she could/should have just disengaged.

I have tested the 9mm and .357 with chronograph and leaving terminal bullet performance aside, the 9mm Ranger +P+ 127 gr travels at about 1250 fps from my Glock 19. The Federal 125 gr JHP travels at 1240 fps in my SP101. So, I carry either, with the SP101 for deep concealment and the Glock otherwise.

I rarely discuss these issues because most people do not want to discuss, but to tell their story. This board is different, and for that, I thank you and all members of this forum for their thoughtful and courteous responses.
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spj
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Rate Member posted 09-23-2005 11:40
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I like both, but there is no fun like letting an unsuspecting soul shoot my S&W 360pd scandium with American Eagle 158gr soft points! For 12oz it is a great fishing/camping/backup gun.
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Ryan M.
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posted 09-26-2005 18:51
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The very best .357 magnum rounds can have a slight edge over most 9mm loadings.

But mostly, it comes down to what you shoot best.
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Glock17JHP
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posted 09-26-2005 19:36
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Valmara69,
I tested 11 different HP loadings for the .357 Magnum a few years back for the IWBA's journal. If you must use a .357 magnum for personal defense, try the Winchester 180 grain Partition Gold JHP. It did the best in my testing. I would recommend a 4 or 6" barrel, depending on what works best (pointability, recoil, CCW, etc.) for you personally.

But keep this in mind, a good 9MM will have up to 3X the number of rounds as the .357 magnum.

But...
If you need an 'outdoorsy' revolver (not a big-city gun), the .357 Magnum might be a better choice...
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DrJSW
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posted 09-26-2005 23:48
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quote:
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Originally posted by Queen Anne's Revenge:
when a person spends lots o' time training to see something, generally, when that something is the front sight, times and hits improve, especially under stress.
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QAR: Absolutely. I could'nt agree more. Well said.

I hear you on the latter issue, too. Keep it on the high road, brother.
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DrJSW
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posted 09-26-2005 23:52
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quote:
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Originally posted by Glock17JHP:
But..
If you need an 'outdoorsy' revolver (not a big-city gun), the .357 Magnum might be a better choice...
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G17HP: A damn sight better choice, IMHO, especially if loaded with good 158 gr or 180 gr bullets. You can't wring the performance advantages out of the 357 Mag with lightweight bullets (110-125 gr). I have come to love heavy loads in the 357. Makes the existence of the caliber justifiable, IMHO.
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Queen Anne's Revenge
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posted 09-27-2005 11:19
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I will also add that as afar as the .357 goes, it is the 180s for mee too.

It is worth remembering that a defensive pistol may be used at night, and any .357 may temporarily destroy your night vision due to muzzle flash. That is one of the things I like about the 9mm Ranger +P+, there is no muzzle flash out of my Glock 19.
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Valmara69
unregistered


posted 09-27-2005 14:24
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Well I got it,

It's a beauty....A Smith & Wesson model 620 with 4 inch barrel, L frame, and 7 round capacity. I also have the laser grip on order. The dealer threw in two boxes 150 grain PMC Starfire.

He said it was good stuff for defense.

I am going to go to Bass Pro Shops to see if I can find some 180 grain Winchester Partition.
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DocGKR
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posted 09-27-2005 16:25
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quote:
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"He said it was good stuff for defense."
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Based on what data? In short, he lied...
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Valmara69
unregistered


posted 09-27-2005 23:16
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He told me a story about how he killed a feral hog, I forget how big...but apparently he smoked it with one shot at around 15 yards or so. At least thats the story I was told. Anyhow the stuff was free.

Doc when you say he lied does the stuff under penetrate, fail to expand or what. Or does it just suck?

Thanks for the reply
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Mad Dog
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posted 09-28-2005 09:17
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PMC ammo is, in general, crap.

My own experience with the .357 Mag launched from a 6" barrel Colt Python indicates that the 125 grain handloaded ammo worked very well on medium sized, thin skinned game. Expansion was consitant and pentration was entirely adequate.
This was when compared to 110, 125 and 158 factory grain loads standard in the late 1970-early 1980s era. The 110s tended to fragment, and the 158s never opened up properly, usually not at all. The 125 gr. factory stuff worked, but only barely. So, handloads it was.

Having transitioned entirely to the 1911A1 and .45acp for defensive loads, and 30-06 for all hunting in North America, I have done no .357 Mag load development since then. I am still shooting the loads I settled on back then, the Sierra and Hornady 125 grain pills at about 1500 fps.
Although I love my Pythons, they have pretty much been relegated to hobby status, and darned little of that. They sure look good in the safe though.

I have yet to try the 180 grain loads currently available, but as always, I take DocGKR's stats as gospel. I will obtain and shoot some soon.
Perhaps they will breathe new life into my old friend the Python.

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Cogito, ergo armatum sum!

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JBloodgood
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posted 09-28-2005 10:19
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quote:
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Originally posted by Valmara69:
He told me a story about how he killed a feral hog, I forget how big...but apparently he smoked it with one shot at around 15 yards or so. At least thats the story I was told. Anyhow the stuff was free.


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Ah yes, the apocryphal hog story. That one is kind of like the old 'my sister's boyfriend's cousin's best friend was in a car wreck and lived because he was thrown clear', or 'this car was owned by a little old lady who only drove it to chruch'. Someone breaks out that stuff, I just smile and nod my head.

Free ammo is kinda like free beer--usually not a bad thing, but rarely any thing good. Use it for target practice.
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Mad Dog
Just Some Guy Who Makes Knives
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posted 09-28-2005 20:51
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I scored some of the Winchester 180 grain Partitions today, I'll see how they shoot next range day. Nice looking bullets, brass cases though. $17.95 for a box of 20. Spendy.

Edited to reflect that there were only 20 rounds in the box, not 25.
Ouch again.

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Cogito, ergo armatum sum!

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Posts: 9860 | From: Mad Dog Land, Arizona, America | Registered: Nov 1999 | IP: Logged |

Queen Anne's Revenge
Avast, ye scurvy dogs!! Harrr.
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posted 09-28-2005 21:54
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Arrrgh Cap'n, so what ain't these days. Arrrgh. I remember the first few boxes of 9mm Ranger I purchased at $49.95 a box. ouch. Now I gets me Ranger for less half that. Arrrrgh.
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