Is the .38 Super worth it?

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Josh45

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Hello everyone, Have a question regarding the .38 Super.
I been looking for a 1911 as well and have found one in said caliber.
I have a question before I go do anything.

The main purpose of this gun would be a sidearm when hunting.
I would be hunting Deer and Boar.
Second purpose would be range toy and third purpose could be a possible carry.
Looking at some reloading data online from Alliant and Hodgdon, I noticed there is only maybe a 100-200 FPS increase in velocity.

I don't know how much KE this round has or FT LBS for that matter and was wondering if this caliber would serve well for my intended main purpose.
I would reload for it and all but I have been thinking of a 4-6" BBL .357 Magnum DA/SA or perhaps a 1911 chambered in .45 ACP but I am interested in this 38 Super but it does me no good if I can do the same thing with my 9mm that I already own.

Maybe I am looking at something wrong or maybe something I miss.
Can anyone point me in the right direction concerning this gun?
 
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To my knowledge, the .38 super was developed in the early 20th century as a hot round that would be sort of a semi-auto equivalent to the .357 magnum. It fell out of favor for some reason, but I understand it has been popular as a competition round and is allegedly popular in South America.

The data on the .38 super show its a pretty hot round. Probably not bad for self-defense. In fact, I was recently interested in a Kimber in this caliber locally. But I never see ammo in that caliber in my area.

My advice, if you want it, is to get either a .357 revolver or a .45acp gun in some platform. You have a lot to choose from. Nice polymer guns in the M&P line, Glock, and XD. There is the 1911 platform. And for revolvers, there are lots of choices. A friend of mine always carries a .357 SP101 while hunting and has needed it a few times.
 
Due to liability concerns over some nimrod stuffing full power Super ammo in his old Colt in 38 ACP factory ammo in 38 Super has been down-loaded to almost exactly 38 ACP pressures (and ve3locity). Maybe same situation with reloading manual info.

I use loads published in the early 1970s (before damn lawyers took over) and my favorite Super load is a 115 JHP at a clocked 1425 FPS. Beats any 9mm load. But you dismiss a 200 FPS increase so maybe the Super isn't for you. Just stick with the 9mm at 1200 or so since you think this is the same as going 200 FPS faster.
 
I have a polymer .45 ACP
I have a .357 Mag GP100

If it was a 1911 .45, It would be for hunting, carry and range toy.
Same thing for a bigger 357 because the one I have now is a snub nose.
I like the idea of expanding my calibers and U know a lot of people really like this round.

Saxon,

I realize it is going 100-200 FPS faster but like I said, This will be a sidearm for hunting mainly.
I know it can add to the KE/ FT Lbs and all. In hunting, I know shot placement is key and all that.
I can understand it also beats a 9mm load but is it truly enough to go for it?
 
Dr B said:
To my knowledge, the .38 super was developed in the early 20th century as a hot round that would be sort of a semi-auto equivalent to the .357 magnum. It fell out of favor for some reason, but I understand it has been popular as a competition round
Click to expand...

Actually you have it the other way around. Smith and Wesson developed the .357 magnum in reponse to Colt's introduction of the 38 Super.

Yes, it is popular as a competition round.


Out of my Commander length (4 1/4") 1911, I've pushed 124 grain XTPs 1300 fps, and 147 gr XTPs 1170 fps. I didn't need to go any faster, so I stopped my load development there.

Now if that's not fast enough for you, I've got a 9x23 barrel fit for it and have pushed those 1450 fps.


200 fps is a big difference. Once a round goes super-sonic, soft tissue reponds to it differently. Yes, 200 fps in a handgun round makes lot of difference.
 
200 fps is a big difference. Once a round goes super-sonic, soft tissue reponds to it differently. Yes, 200 fps in a handgun round makes lot of difference.
__________________
Click to expand...

That is some very interesting info there.
How would you rate it for hunting wise? Deer/ Boar
 
Whitetail deer, yes. Most certainly.


Boar, with really hot 147 grain loads, maybe.


Thing with boar is they're dangerous. And they've got thick skulls. Truthfully I'd get completely away from anything 38 caliber and get something larger. Either a 10mm, a 41 or 44 magnum.
 
Just as a note since you are asking about bullet energy:
9mm 125gr bullet @1200 will deliver 399 ft/lbs of energy
38 Super 125gr bullet @14200 will deliver 543 ft/lbs of energy
So, those 200 fps increase the energy quite a bit...

Like said above, the .38 Super was dumbed down because of the .38 ACP being the same size. The .357 Sig on the other hand is what the .38 Super was originally.
(It the .357 Sig was developed to mimic the .357 Magnum in a semi-auto)

If you handload for the .38 Super Auto you should have no problem making good ammo but again like said above, you will need to use older data from before the lawyers got a hold of it!
 
Several years ago, I had a Colt "Super Lite" Commander that I carried for a while. At the time, the best commercial ammunition available was the Winchester 125-grain Silvertip offering. As carefully as I could, I did the velocity testing across a Shooting Chrony...admittedly not the best on the market...but good enough to make some comparisons.

Velocities were very consistent, with the average for 10 rounds right at 1140 fps. Not too shabby, but not exactly screamin', either. Certainly not equal to the speeds provided by the original 130-grain FMJ loadings. Perfectly adequate for self defense...but in the brush with a belligerent pig, I think I'd opt for something with a bit more punch and bullet mass.
 
1911Tuner said:
Perfectly adequate for self defense...but in the brush with a belligerent pig, I think I'd opt for something with a bit more punch and bullet mass.
Click to expand...
I completely agree with you there. With said pig I would also want something more in line with a sledge hammer over a framing hammer... ;)
(maybe something in 250gr, .452" in diameter @ 900+ fps)
 
A 1911 in .451 Detonics/.45 Super, or .460 Rowland=hammer, BIG hammer.

.38 Super? Great for Race guns: 100 grains, 1500 fps, equals major, IIRC.
YMMV. Better reload.

If you are going to use it for pigs and deer you may want to use lead, or Flat points to get adequate penetration.

NOT my choice for such animals.
 
Yeah Tuner, those factory Silvertips are downloaded quite a bit from the round's potential.
Click to expand...

Seems a lot of the Silvertips are downloaded far from their potential. I could throw a 200 gr. .44 Spc. faster than the Win ST load goes. :(
 
Yeah Tuner, those factory Silvertips are downloaded quite a bit from the round's potential.
Click to expand...

If memory serves me...and sometimes it doesn't...the old .38 Auto 130 loading was advertised at 1050 fps fired in a 5-inch gun, which would place the 125 Silvertip ".38 Auto +P" roughly at the mid-point between the standard .38 ACP and the original .38 Super.

Estimated Silvertip velocity from a 5 inch barrel would be in the neighborhood of 1190-1200 fps. Not bad, considering the Remington .357/125-grain reduced load was advertised at 1280 from a 4-inch barrel.
 
A lot of good information regarding this.

ArchAngel, Actually I was asking about the energy but I had said it "KE/ FT Lbs"
None the less, I appreciate you mentioning it. That is quite a bit of energy.
Sad to hear that it is inadequate to take on pigs. I figured handloaded ammo would help out quite a bit.

That is why I also mentioned the .357 and the .45 ACP.
 
I have a .38S, it's a nice pistol, good round when handloaded. When I go into the woods, I take a .45 loaded with +p 230gr HPs. That is a stop gap until I find either the right 10mm, .44, or .454 for me.

In your case, I'd take the .357M.
 
Where the .38 Super really beats the 9mm, even +P, etc, is in the heavier 147 grain handloads. 9mm's just can't be hotrodded with heavy bullets. The .38 Super shines on that one, which puts it up with the .357 SIG, and just shy of the .357 loads, with equivalent sized guns and barrels. With 124gr +P+ in the 9mm, the nine gets close to the upper level .38 Super loadings with 124gr, so there is not as much advantage in the Super with that grain bullet. The Super guns are designed for those higher pressure loadings, whereas you are stressing 9mm's to run +P or +P+ all the time.
 
If you reload the super is very much worth it, It'll do anything a 9mm will do and more for the same $. I have a 150gr LSWC load for my super that'll clock 1100 fps from my 4 1/4" commander. I've always found it amusing that some how a 357 mag revolver loaded with 158gr LSWC@1100 is often touted as a great all around woods gun. Yet the super gets poo poo'd.
 
If you reload the super is very much worth it, It'll do anything a 9mm will do and more for the same $
Click to expand...

Assuming you don't lose a lot of your .38Super brass. Ejection is a good bit brisker than any 9mm I have.

The biggest reason I don't shoot .38Super much is finding the empties among all the 9mm brass left laying around at our club. I don't think I've ever shot 9mm and came back with less empty brass than I'd shot.
 
Well, After some thought and reading I decided to go for it and bought it.
Should get it here by Wednesday. I want to thank everyone for their opinions and info on this. Should be fun to reload for it.
 
The .38 Super is basically a ballistic twin to the .357 Magnum. The .357 has a bit of an edge, but not much.

The .38 Special is simply a hot-loaded .38 ACP. It is a semi-rimmed cartridge and was designed to headspace on the tiny rim. That doesn't work very well and most .38 Supers are rather disappointing in the accuracy department. The fix is to install a barrel that headspaces the cartridge on the case mouth -- accuracy will miraculously get better.

My advice is to shoot the gun. If it shoots poorly, knock the price down enough to pay for the new barrel. If the guy won't come down when confronted with the target, don't buy.
 
38 Supers haven't headspaced on the rim since the mid-80's, and Colt was the lone hold-out still making them that way. Most manufacturers of barrels and firearms companies making 38 Super guns were headspacing on the case mouth a decade or two before that.


Unless the gun is a Colt, and is older than 1985-ish, it's of no concern, Vern.
 
Actually, This one is a Taurus PT1911 chambered in .38 Super.
It is brand new and I bought it off CDNN since they were selling it new for $399 with two magazines.

I am going to check that head space issue before I finalize the purchase and all.
Would the Taurus have this issue?
 
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