Is the combat shotgun obsolete?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well, now that I am not playing the devil's advocate I have to agree that there is still use for the combat shotgun, although I think many of the shotguns out there today are long overdue for upgrades.

What kind of design features would you want in a Battle-Shotgun?

In my opinion:
First, save the pumps for use with less lethal munitions. In a shootout the bearer shouldn't have to manually chamber a new round. Plus a semi reduces recoil, cutting down on both followup time and fatigue.

Also keep the tubular magazines on the pumps. They are slow to load unless there is a speed-loader, which in itself is bulky and makes the reloading process more complex. On a pump the tube magazine would allow the user to easily switch out the chambered round, a good aspect of a gun used mostly with LtL.

For the semi, a detachable box or rotary magazine is the way to go. Although bulkier, a rotary might be preferable as it prevents rimlock.

Weight is an important factor. There are some real pigs of combat shotguns out there. The weight loaded with a standard magazine should be between 7.5 and 8.75 pounds, in the range of many "carried" hunting shotguns, but still heavy enough to soak up some recoil.

A good solid stock is critical. Many of the collapsable and folding stocks are flimsy or uncomfortable. A good recoil pad is essential. Many shotgun loads produce recoil energy in the range of the .338 Winchester Magnum, with some kicking as much as a .375 H&H!

Since a shotgun both swings best and recoils least if it fits the user well, it would be great if interchangeable different thickness recoil pads were available (as seen in the Browning Cynergy and Franchi I-12).

The barrel should be interchageable like most modern shotguns. The standard length should be ~22" as this is a compromise between a compact weapon and trying to minimise the amount of muzzle blast and flash. Other barrel lengths should be produced as needed. It would be nice if the gun could be equipped with a Poly-Choke like mechanism, as this would allow the shooter to use an open bore for slugs and a choked bore for better buckshot patterns.

A ghost ring sight should be provided, although it should be integrated to provide the least amount of interference to the gun being pointed in an extraneous situation.

These are my views as to what could be done to create a next generation combat shotgun. I am anxious to hear the other posters.
 
Shotguns are FAR from obsolete. I got back from the sand box a year ago, and some Marines are being issued a Bennelli as a primary weapon. I often carried a Mossberg 500 myself. Nothing is more comforting than a 12 gauge when you are kicking in a door.

Ben 19-3 made a comment about terrorists not having body armor. Just want to let you know that you are horribly mistaken!!! They not only have it, but some of theirs is better than what some of our guys are wearing. Not saying that all of their operaters are wearing armor, but enough of them are to make it a legitimate concern. Never underestimate your enemy. Never!
 
whoops. my bad. didn't mean to spread any bad info. In all the pics i have seen of the OpFors in the sand box, I never once saw body armor, so I suppose i made a bad assumption.
 
frag12:
The projectile is designed to arm 3 meters
from the muzzle and fires upon impact with a surface. The
HE projectile has sufficient explosive power to make one
inch holes in ¼ inch cold rolled steel plate. The maximum
effective range for this round is claimed to be 200m,

I also recall a type of sabot round that had a flat steel penetrator that was supposed to do real well against kevlar.

also I imagine a shaped charge could be made in 12

I think the biggest problem with shotguns is the same one that has kept it's use limited in the past which is the high weight of the shells. Also some people just aren't good with a shotgun and it's alot easier to train people how to use a rifle, not to mention recoil.
 
The AA-12, the shotgun jlbraun's linked FRAG-12 was developed to be employed with says they are far from considered obsolete. With the 20 round mags and full auto fire set at a manageable 300 rpm (5 per second) it is more intimidating than most portable rifles. The smoothbore of the shotgun also means that it is superior in versatility as you can set it to fire anything from slugs, buckshot, flechettes, shot with wire (cuts tissue like razors), chemical rounds (both lethal and non lethal), grappling hooks, or armor penetrating pie sliced steel (or tungsten) rounds with multiple sharp angles for destroying body armor and just about anything else you have a desire you launch out of a tube.

Also the pumps, though outgunned in comparison to the AA-12 or other auto guns, offer higher reliability in jungle type conditions where dirt and humidity are a constant, nvm there ease in using various rounds delivering various pressures that would not reliably cycle in an auto.

Or take a look at the unmanned helicopter drones equiped with full auto shotguns with Frag and Shot loads. Those things are scary and the advantage of firing multiple projectiles at once while moving at a high rate of speed to strafe is far superior than traditional bullets.

No the shotgun is not going anywhere anytime soon.
 
Concerning body armor penetration; I believe it depends on which sort of slug you use. I don’t remember the source, but I've heard sabot slugs penetrate very well; although a rifled barrel limits the use of other loads. Even foster slugs will penetrate lower levels of body armor. I seriously doubt the shotgun will ever become obsolete. There is no other firearm that competes with a 12GA in terms of terminal ballistics; consider the permanent wound channel created by a load of buckshot or slug. A riot gun trumps a submachine gun any day, unless you need to use a silencer. My 12GA pump gun is my most firearm; nothing comes close in terms of versatility, be it birds, bears, or bad guys.
 
Wacki, nobody is stating it publicly, but some folks there estimate that half the body count post storm were goblins shot by citizens refusing to be victims.

Shotguns were in wide use.
 
From what I have seen, the 12ga slug typically wont penatrate soft body armor. However, just because it didn't exit the vest, doesn't mean it wasn't leathal. From what I have seen, it would likely be that the slug pushed the vest through your chest and to your spine
Yeah, I've seen a few photos and one video online involving a 12ga slug and soft body armor.

You guys may remember the video, it was where some LEOs from MD(?) were pushing for the FN five-seven ban.
 
Obsolete ? I don't know anyone that is willing to climb through a window and be on the receiving end of a 10 pellet 000 buck 3" magnum load or 1oz .729 inch slug at 1760 fps. Does such a person exist ?

Or, as Mr. Volk would say:
sg-home.gif
 
No, not obsolete. Still a monster at clearing rooms, with a look that continues to send shivers down the spine of anyone on the wrong end.
 
No, not obsolete. Still a monster at clearing rooms, with a look that continues to send shivers down the spine of anyone on the wrong end.
Yup. Which might also answer any questions about how many looters were shot after Katrina: maybe even the most determined criminals really aren't that stoooopid.
"Just say, 'Sorry, wrong house,' and get off my property!"
 
I don't know if LAPD had anything but buckshot for theirs in '97, but maybe some solid slug hits would have ended that event a little earlier.
Right on. I thought the same thing. If they would have tried slugs, I'm willing to bet it would have ended sooner. Alot of time's a platform gets blamed when it is the ammo type applied to the wrong job that is the problem. Like using ball ammo in a 9mm for defense and expecting 1 shot stops'
 
I've had my mossberg 590-a1 mil-spec for a year now. I love this shotgun. Shoots great and it is reliable. It was not that expensive, like just under $500. I hightly recommend this one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top