Is the revolver enough for defense?

[Kleanbore]

So you would ignore them?

Read it again.

Or consider what they said as valid?

That would depend upon what it was that they said.

So it would depend on what scenario they presented?

No. No one can predict what will happen in a criminal attack.

Do you feel that members here that carry revolvers may ignore your input?

Their choice. of course.

But my input is based on quite a bit of objective reasoning., and I am by no means alone in having considered a bit more than "I feel comfortable" and "in most cases".....

At least they should think very carefully about relying upon five shots for their continued existence.

Those who may not like the assumptions that JohnKSa used in his eye-opening analysis are free to insert their own, assuming that they understand the math. It's basic statistics.

However, everyone should understand that they represent best case scenarios. They assume that a defender will stop shooting immediately after having fired the shot that effects a stop.

That, of course, is entirely unrealistic, but it really does simplify the calculations considerably.

Other than that simplification, I'm happy with the assumptions.

I'll just round up a bit. There's enough uncertainty anyway.

 

[357 Terms]

At least they should think very carefully about relying upon five shots for their continued existence

A bit dramatic, but...ok

I'll just round up a bit. There's enough uncertainty anyway.

Uncertainty. ..I'll agree with that!

 

[KevininPa]

Didn't read all the posts. These days, a lot of them are getting too long winded.

To answer the original question, yep. If it's not enough, you're someplace you don't belong. Or you're in a trade you also don't belong.

Coming from a simple man with simple tastes. Or a simple minded man with simple tastes. This is the internet, take it as you read it.

 

[.38 Special]

Didn't read all the posts. These days, a lot of them are getting too long winded.

To answer the original question, yep. If it's not enough, you're someplace you don't belong. Or you're in a trade you also don't belong.

Coming from a simple man with simple tastes. Or a simple minded man with simple tastes. This is the internet, take it as you read it.

Should have read all the way through. The moderators used math to prove that anyone who carries a revolver will be killed in a gunfight.

 

[KevininPa]

Should have read all the way through. The moderators used math to prove that anyone who carries a revolver will be killed in a gunfight.

Darn. Guess I'm dead then. BTW , there are sketchy areas where I carry something "heavier". But I do thank you for pointing that out to me. I'm forever grateful.

 

[Ernie Bass]

The internet and Hollywood have a lot in common. A whole lot of shootouts going on and a whole lot of lead flying.

 

[Hartkopf]

Bloomberg’s people are watching this thread. Half of y’all arguing for 5shot revolvers will contribute to ALL of us being restricted to 5 shots. (Eventually, and they will sight threads like this)

18 is better than 5. If I only need 2, then I’ll only use 2.

 

[KevininPa]

Should have read all the way through. The moderators used math to prove that anyone who carries a revolver will be killed in a gunfight.

Don't personally know the mods or where they live. Different strokes for different folks. Don't know where they live.

 

[.38 Special]

Don't personally know the mods or where they live. Different strokes for different folks. Don't know where they live.

So, you know I was joking, I hope.

 

[bdickens]

I am unaware of anyone who has been involved in a gunfight wishing he hadn't been carrying a gun that held so much ammo.

 

[KevininPa]

So, you know I was joking, I hope.

It was well accepted my friend. We've both been there and done that on this forum too long to trivialize. We're both here a long time
Hopefully longer in these days.

 

[2ndamd]

Oh yeah!
It is enough.
Just ask Ed McGivern

 

[MIOkie]

“Should have read all the way through. The moderators used math to prove that anyone who carries a revolver will be killed in a gunfight. ”

Now that’s funny...!!!

It would appear that the Moderators are doing their job by providing appropriate facts and data to the very serious question of “ is the revolver enough”.

It’s a simple question with a complex answer, and in the end, the decision of what to carry rests solely upon us.

 

[SteadyD]

One thing I always consider is that revolvers are less likely to have a ND than a striker fired auto, and since the most likely reason any of us unholster is to put away our gun at the end of the day, that plays into my decision making. Also, my wife is far more confident with a revolver, so I generally (not always) choose one as well, should she need to use it.

I guess my point is, capacity and number of attackers aren’t the only things I consider. I also worry about administrative handling, which is the vast majority, or for most of us the entirety of our defensive gun “use”.

I also prefer to not have enough energy stored in the action to set off a primer should the firing pin block fail. I know that is highly unlikely but given that I sometimes pocket carry, when I am seated my gun is likely pointed at someone.

 

[JohnKSa]

The moderators used math to prove that anyone who carries a revolver will be killed in a gunfight.

Those calculations were all about answering a very simple question.

If I ask you what the odds are of making 6 hits with a 5 shot gun, without reloading, everyone here can answer really quickly. The odds are zero because there aren't enough shots in the gun to make 6 hits. This information is useful because if a person DECIDES that they want to DEFINE "enough" as "making 6 hits without reloading" then they shouldn't choose a gun with a capacity of only 5 rounds.

So now you want to pick another gun because you DECIDED that you were going to DEFINE "enough" as being "6 hits without reloading". Notice that this isn't the same thing as claiming that it's LIKELY that a self-defense encounter will involve 6 hits, or asserting that making 6 hits is GUARANTEED to solve any self-defense encounter. It's not really saying anything at all other than you want to know the results of a probability calculation.

Obviously going up from a 5 shot capacity to a 6 shot capacity gives one the chance of making 6 hits, but what are the odds of making 6 hits before the gun runs dry? Now it's not such an easy question to to answer. In fact, you need some more information before you can even calculate the results. You need to also ASSUME the chances of making a hit with each shot.

I figured out how to run the calculation and then I ran it a bunch of times with different capacities, different DEFINITIONS of success and different ASSUMED hit rates. That's all. It's not a gunfight simulator, it's not about revolvers vs. semi-autos, it's not about caliber, it's not about wounding theory or gunfight statistics, it's just a probability calculation.

 

[357 Terms]

"Probability calculation" lets hit on that.

For those of us who choose to carry a firearm on a regular/ daily basis, what are the odds we will ever have to use it?
I'm fine with a ballpark figure. (Like 99.99% wont have to?)
Of that small percentage, how many will need 6 shots or more?
I'm gonna assume there are more $100+million lottery winners walking around than people who need more than what a solid lil revolver provides.

 

[357 Terms]

Here is a very recent example:

TheBlaze: Crooks bust into apartment in broad daylight but quickly turn tail and run — one jumping a second-floor balcony — when resident opens fire.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/crook...econd-floor-balcony--when-resident-opens-fire

3 attackers...5 shots fired, threat stopped.
Granted I personally have a high-cap 40 cal for quick access home defense, simply because I dont have to "carry" it.

 

[carsten1911]

It would appear that the Moderators are doing their job by providing appropriate facts and data to the very serious question of “ is the revolver enough”.

In my view the moderators´ job is in no way binding them to "provide facts and data", but to ensure all forum rules are followed and that the forum stays functional.
If they DO deliver facts and data they do it in their role as forum members...that´s at least MY view (mods views might vary, I sure do not claim to speak for any of them!)

Carsten

 

[Kleanbore]

If it's not enough, you're someplace you don't belong. Or you're in a trade you also don't belong.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

For those of us who choose to carry a firearm on a regular/ daily basis, what are the odds we will ever have to use it?

That's completely irrelevant to what may happen once the shooting starts.

 

[357 Terms]

That's completely irrelevant to what may happen once the shooting starts.

Read it again.."probability calculation" if your going to speculate, throw out (unlikely) theoretical scenarios, why don't we discuss how likely they are.

 

[Kleanbore]

Read it again.."probability calculation" if your going to speculate, throw out (unlikely) theoretical scenarios, why don't we discuss how likely they are.

We do.

But the probability that a gun will have to be fired is completely independent from the question of how many shots may be needed.

One would only address the conditional probability.

That's a basic tenet of risk management.

The likelihood that a gun would never have to be used would enter into the assessment of whether to carry in the first place.

 

[Ernie Bass]

Getting back to the OP's question of is a revolver good for defense, I would give a resounding HECK yes it is. Of course like any firearm, there is a degree of competency that must be acquired. I shoot all sizes of carry guns, and I carry the Snubbie as well as a few other pistols. I will say this. There is a certain pride that comes with shooting a Snubbie well. And I love shooting them.

The are easy to carry. Day in, day out, 365 days a year. No magazines to mess with. SIMPLICITY. Man such a nice feature. I can only imagine how many are still being sold and carried to day. Rugers and Smiths alone must be in the hundreds of thousand. And guess what, there are many that shoot them very well. Want to know if they are good for defense? Then watch a person that is competent go through the drills. And then ask, is a Revolver good for defense? Heck yes they are. And like I said, they are for many, like myself just so much fun to shoot and train with. I really do not care if some internet guy try's to tell me that one is not a good defense gun. Sorry, been around too long for that. I do not like a Liberal telling me to not carry any gun and I feel the same when a internet person tries to tell me what I should or should not carry. Worry about yourself and your own skills, and I will take care of mine.
Now maybe if you are in gun fights every week with the Drug Cartels and having to shoot 4 or 5 at a time, a LE, a Soldier then no a Revolver is not for EDC.But for my EDC they are just fine.

SIMPLE, RELIABLE, FAST. And again, there is a reason why a 22.cal is my favorite Plinker. I just love to shoot them and if you love shooting a gun you will most likely train more often.

 

[Olon]

I appreciate the mods fighting to put accurate information here. I think it's important to understand the risks you're taking when you choose any particular carry weapon, and to put some thought into it.

For me, I'm comfortable carrying a revolver most of the time. I understand and acknowledge the risk I take in so doing, and I won't pretend the revolver is superior as an overall defensive weapon for each, or even most situations. I choose it for convenience and familiarity, which is ok. It's a personal choice and I won't try swaying anyone one way or the other.

The data (and the assumptions that go with it) are out there. What you do with that is up to you. I'm not in a position to tell anybody what they should carry, so whatever you choose to pack: carry on.

 

[Coop45]

These subjective threads are fun. I believe in......
synthetic oil
apple pies
brunettes
Japanese cars made in America
Thai cooking
cake donuts
mom and pop cafes
eggs over easy
270 Winchester
Beagles
Coke Zero
tequila
summertime
pellet smokers
Michelin tires
Doggie style
Bluebell
fishing at night
PCR's
curling is boring like golf
live oak trees
elk chili
motorcycles
Remington 700s from the 80's
smooth peanut butter
Toro mowers.. my wife likes hers
napalm up close on cool mornings
naturals of any size
1911s
apricot cobbler

 

[Olon]

These subjective threads are fun. I believe in......
synthetic oil
apple pies
brunettes
Japanese cars made in America
Thai cooking
cake donuts
mom and pop cafes
eggs over easy
270 Winchester
Beagles
Coke Zero
tequila
summertime
pellet smokers
Michelin tires
Doggie style
Bluebell
fishing at night
PCR's
curling is boring like golf
live oak trees
elk chili
motorcycles
Remington 700s from the 80's
smooth peanut butter
Toro mowers.. my wife likes hers
napalm up close on cool mornings
naturals of any size
1911s
apricot cobbler

Nothing remotely subjective about liking apple pie.