After doing a little research on Feg Hipower clones I'm still a little confused. Are all of the PJK-9HP's 100% interchangable with the originals? Is this the only close clone by FEG?
Many thanks in advance.
Many thanks in advance.
Is there a 100% FEG clone of the P-35?
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Leadbutt
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Pop over to this site and look up Josh, believe it was hee that did a great exam and write up of them articles where posted on the site
http://www.handgunsandammunition.com/
http://www.handgunsandammunition.com/
FEG made two types of "Hi Powers" without ever changing the model designation.
Most of them are interchangeable with the P35. However, at different points they also made an action based on the S&W auto, but externally resembling a Hi Power.
It's easy to tell the difference. Look at the picture below.
There is an oval just above the trigger and below the slide. That is the cam that goes through the frame in a P 35 pistol.
If the FEG has that same cam, it's a Browning system. If it doesn't, then it's the S&W system.
If the cam is obscured by a painted coating, then you have to pull the slide to see if there is cam running through
the frame at that point.
Cam = Hi Power system and parts interchangeability.
No Cam = S&W system and very little parts interchangeability.
Most of them are interchangeable with the P35. However, at different points they also made an action based on the S&W auto, but externally resembling a Hi Power.
It's easy to tell the difference. Look at the picture below.
There is an oval just above the trigger and below the slide. That is the cam that goes through the frame in a P 35 pistol.
If the FEG has that same cam, it's a Browning system. If it doesn't, then it's the S&W system.
If the cam is obscured by a painted coating, then you have to pull the slide to see if there is cam running through
the frame at that point.
Cam = Hi Power system and parts interchangeability.
No Cam = S&W system and very little parts interchangeability.
Clones by definition are NOT 100% interchangable.
Most parts should be close enough they can be MADE to work, but drop-inablity is never assured.
The reason I say this is because a clone is based on reverse engineering, they take the gun ( or whatever) take it apart, take measurements ( without knowing where those measurements fall within the factory tolerences ) and make parts based on the measurements of ONE part.....add in machining tolerences and viola', parts that should be drop in that have to be fitted to work.
Most parts should be close enough they can be MADE to work, but drop-inablity is never assured.
The reason I say this is because a clone is based on reverse engineering, they take the gun ( or whatever) take it apart, take measurements ( without knowing where those measurements fall within the factory tolerences ) and make parts based on the measurements of ONE part.....add in machining tolerences and viola', parts that should be drop in that have to be fitted to work.
A clone by definition is 100% compatible. (Think of identical twin.) If the copy is not made identical then it's not a clone and should be called a knockoff or copy but not clone. It would be more like a fraternal twin.
Anyway the FEGs that have the barrel cam that KodiakBeer pictured above are very close to being FN clones though they never were licensed by FN like the Argentine FM Hi Powers. They share all parts with a true HP, though with any gun of older design there may be a little hand fitting of parts. The FEGs with the S&W locking system are not HP clones at all, though they may share a few parts like the recoil spring and magazines. Some HP lookalike FEGs don't even share magazines with HPs.
rbernie
Contributing Member
KB has given you a great visual reference to tell what you're looking at. AFAIK, the PJK's were all 100% BHP and the P9's were the ones that could be either a BHP or a S&W 59 style.
The FEG's with the cam are true hi-power clones. FEG parts were also used by Charles Daly for its hi-power. The CDs are really nice and affordable used guns if you can find one.
On a side note, I'm always a bit surprised by the reaction hi-power clones get. I mean there are about 1,500 1911 manufactures out there and no one bats an eye.
On a side note, I'm always a bit surprised by the reaction hi-power clones get. I mean there are about 1,500 1911 manufactures out there and no one bats an eye.
I don't know how many of you are aware of this, but in the late 80s a dupe was pulled on Sadaam Hussein where a large order of FN Hi-Power pistols were delivered that were actually spuriously marked FEG Clone guns.
The Hi-Power Hussein is seen firing into the air in one of the late dictator's propoganda films is actually one of those pistols.
The fraud was pulled off by a ex communist bloc arms dealer who is now on trial in the U.S. for gunrunning.
He likely paid about US$125 each for the guns and sold them to Iraq for US$400-$500 each
FEG Hi-Powers are good enough to pass as the genuine article.
There are also a number of Hungarian Walaam 7.65/.32acp pistols that were delivered to the Mid-East, Lebanon specifically, that were marked "Mauser-Oberndorf"
Same guy pulled off this little deed also & he likely paid about US$75 each for these and sold them for US$250-$300
The Hi-Power Hussein is seen firing into the air in one of the late dictator's propoganda films is actually one of those pistols.
The fraud was pulled off by a ex communist bloc arms dealer who is now on trial in the U.S. for gunrunning.
He likely paid about US$125 each for the guns and sold them to Iraq for US$400-$500 each
FEG Hi-Powers are good enough to pass as the genuine article.
There are also a number of Hungarian Walaam 7.65/.32acp pistols that were delivered to the Mid-East, Lebanon specifically, that were marked "Mauser-Oberndorf"
Same guy pulled off this little deed also & he likely paid about US$75 each for these and sold them for US$250-$300
Mauser also contracted a number of 9mm FEG Hi Powers. A batch of those were recently sold by CDNN as "German Hi Powers".
I have the same NIB pistol that Rellascout referred to, but with a spur hammer (not as good looking as the ring hammer, but no hammer bite). Anything in the $200s is a steal, and 95% of the way to a "real" BHP at a fraction of the price. The finish is a bit less "perfect" than a Browning, but for perspective it is several notches above the finish on my RIA 1911.
There is no better way to dip your feet into the HP waters. A month or so of shooting this pistol, and I have become a fully-converted HP KoolAid drinker. The FEG was my first HP, but it won't be my last.
Everything I have read indicates that as long as you buy the correct version (as mentioned above, it is easy to do once you know what to look for), nearly all parts are interchangeable. The only exception is that the post on the FEG safety is slightly larger (or was it smaller?), so a new safety won't be drop in (i.e., it is not impossible, but will take some fitting). Same could be said for when I added a new safety on my 1911.
JayPee is generally considered THE FEG guru. Take the time to read his materials--it will save you a lot of time and money that you would otherwise spend researching FEGs and potentially buying the wrong version. http://feghp.blogspot.com/2010_02_01_archive.html
The irony of the less desirable "bad" version FEG, is that they tried to take the ergos of the HP, and combine them with DA/SA operation via one of the most reliable actions of the day--S&W's Model 59. Another former Communist block manufacturer did the exact same thing--used the HP for ergonomic inspiration and the S&W 59 for inspiration on the action. They added a slide-in-frame design, and called their version the CZ75....
There is no better way to dip your feet into the HP waters. A month or so of shooting this pistol, and I have become a fully-converted HP KoolAid drinker. The FEG was my first HP, but it won't be my last.
Everything I have read indicates that as long as you buy the correct version (as mentioned above, it is easy to do once you know what to look for), nearly all parts are interchangeable. The only exception is that the post on the FEG safety is slightly larger (or was it smaller?), so a new safety won't be drop in (i.e., it is not impossible, but will take some fitting). Same could be said for when I added a new safety on my 1911.
JayPee is generally considered THE FEG guru. Take the time to read his materials--it will save you a lot of time and money that you would otherwise spend researching FEGs and potentially buying the wrong version. http://feghp.blogspot.com/2010_02_01_archive.html
The irony of the less desirable "bad" version FEG, is that they tried to take the ergos of the HP, and combine them with DA/SA operation via one of the most reliable actions of the day--S&W's Model 59. Another former Communist block manufacturer did the exact same thing--used the HP for ergonomic inspiration and the S&W 59 for inspiration on the action. They added a slide-in-frame design, and called their version the CZ75....
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Oh, and with a $59 trigger job by Bill Springfield, my FEG now has the second-best non-1911 trigger I have ever felt (coming in after an Angus Hobdell CZ Shadow).
That's a serious amount of shooting enjoyment for the somewhere in the $300s that I invested in the FEG.
That's a serious amount of shooting enjoyment for the somewhere in the $300s that I invested in the FEG.
FEG Hi-Powers are really good guns. Daly quit selling them as FEG went out of business.
The SOG guns are the later models with a slightly different slide stop and the slide itself has a more simply machined take town notch.
I have a true clone and a later version. Both are marked PJK9HP.
The SOG guns are the later models with a slightly different slide stop and the slide itself has a more simply machined take town notch.
I have a true clone and a later version. Both are marked PJK9HP.
I should throw this in. If any FEG owners are out there looking for parts, Numrich has a great selection that nobody can find because they are listed under Kassnar instead of Feg.
So, if you need a part or want a small stockpile of parts to cover any future breakage, this will be your last chance. Once these are gone, they are gone forever. http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=12451
Once these are gone, you can always try Browning parts but they may need some fitting. If I owned a FEG (and I ask myself why don't I own a FEG...?), I'd be looking at these pretty hard before they are gone.
So, if you need a part or want a small stockpile of parts to cover any future breakage, this will be your last chance. Once these are gone, they are gone forever. http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=12451
Once these are gone, you can always try Browning parts but they may need some fitting. If I owned a FEG (and I ask myself why don't I own a FEG...?), I'd be looking at these pretty hard before they are gone.
A bit off topic, but I purchased a NIB (or new-old-stock, rather) Daly Hi Power yesterday. It is a Magnum Research assembled one based on the serial number.
It appears to be a 100% copy, aside from the Daly/KBI-mandated updates:
- XS sights
- Ring hammer
- larger slide release
- Michael's of Oregon grips
- Cheap plastic 10 round mag I think I got a restricted one even though I am in OK
The Magnum Research fit and finish appears much better than the FEG-assembled and FM (Argentine) pistols, at least the examples I had seen. I am pretty pleased and look forward to a trip to the range.
I picked it up for near what the mil-surp models floating around right now are going for. I think that was pretty good for a NIB gun, even if the importer has dissolved. Even with that said, I was drawn to the KBI pistol because of what I had seen of Kassnar engaging and supporting people on the various firearm forums, like he did a couple of posts up. It's intangible, certainly; but still makes me "feel good" nonetheless. That's saying a lot, even if he is apparently a Phillies fan
Michael, I noticed you posted an update on m1911 a couple of months ago and think we all may find it interesting (not necessarily Hi Power related). I hope you don't mind:
TWA said:
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Sorry but CD was a failure. They pushed into markets they really were not ready to compete in and IMHO it sent the company down the tubes. If they never come back it would not bother me a bit.
The CD Hi powers are made from FEG parts. IIRC they were assembled here so they could claim that they were "US MADE."
The CD Hi powers are made from FEG parts. IIRC they were assembled here so they could claim that they were "US MADE."
The CD Hi-Powers were FEG parts finished and assembled in the US by either Dan Wesson of Magnum Research. I don't think the Hi-Power market was big enough to support a non-FN gun at the price point they originally shot for, but that happens sometimes.
Also, under the current standards, I don't think they could be marked as Made in USA.
Also, under the current standards, I don't think they could be marked as Made in USA.
Charles Daly always was an IMPORTER. They never tried to fool anyone to think their pistols were american made. Also, the death of CD was caused by the fact the supplier of their 1911s decided to sell their 1911s in the US on their own. CD was competing against their own pistol maker. They were trying to make a deal with BUL to produce their pistols but when that deal fell through CD was forced to shut its doors. Charles Daly introduced the Rock Island Armory pistols to the US. RIA seems to be having quite a bit of success here so CD didn't "push into" a market that wasn't there, they were just beat out by their supplier.
As far as the FEG, as long as you get the PJK-9HP it is a copy of the Browning HP. The only exception being the hole in the frame for the safety seems a little smaller so a little fitting is involved in installing a HP safety. Any of the other models are different to some degree or another.
You are forgetting their push in black rifles which they did manufacturer IIRC. It really makes no difference to me if CD ever comes back but their failure is a direct result of their business model. When you are nothing but a middle man you can get squeezed out of the market by your supplier and other market channels.
You also are fooling yourself if you think that the "made in the US" was not a deliberate choice on their part. They used the "Made in the US" label to market their BHP clone just like SA claims to be Americas oldest name in firearms. Tons of people do not do the research and are duped everyday but this type of marketing. The made in the US labeling was featured in all the gun rags.
Again I could care less if CD ever comes back but let's at least try to be objective about the subject. The CD BHPs where nothing more than FEG parts assembled here with "Henie like" rear sights and a Big dot XS front IIRC. They were essentially FEG clones marketed as US made CDs.
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