I'm going to be a bit mischievous here and point out that one sure way to ensure that you are shooting premium ammunition is to load your own. That way you control the bullet (weight and configuration), brass, powder, primer, the loading process AND you're on a first-name basis with the guy who did the work!
Is There a Premium FMJ 9mm Round?
- Thread starter HGM22
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It might take most guys a little bit of time to get to the point where their reloads are more consistent and reliable than the high quality major manufacturers. Lots and lots of details
Bobson
Member
This is surprising to read. I don't reload, but I have a pretty solid understanding of the various steps involved. I wouldn't have thought shooting at routine handgun ranges (5-25 yards) would be enough to see negative effects of common reloads unless it was done to truly piss-poor standards. I mean, you clean the brass, you ensure you have the right case length, you clean the primer pockets and seat the primers to a uniform depth, you weigh the proper charge and properly seat the bullets to uniform depth. Which step creates enough room for subpar performance, short of failing to measure or weigh correctly? These are all fairly black-and-white processes.
Onward Allusion
Member
S&B FMJ is solid.
@ Corpral Agarn
What appreciable difference there might be is what I was asking about above, but didn't really get anything of substance. Strangers on the Internet tell me I'll understand once I'm a decent shot. Ever the perpetual goal, I suppose, and I fully admit I have a ways to go before handgun ammunition is the thing holding me back from being a better shot. Someday I'll be as good as all the expert marksmen on the web.
What appreciable difference there might be is what I was asking about above, but didn't really get anything of substance. Strangers on the Internet tell me I'll understand once I'm a decent shot. Ever the perpetual goal, I suppose, and I fully admit I have a ways to go before handgun ammunition is the thing holding me back from being a better shot. Someday I'll be as good as all the expert marksmen on the web.
@ Corpral Agarn
What appreciable difference there might be is what I was asking about above, but didn't really get anything of substance. Strangers on the Internet tell me I'll understand once I'm a decent shot. Ever the perpetual goal, I suppose, and I fully admit I have a ways to go before handgun ammunition is the thing holding me back from being a better shot. Someday I'll be as good as all the expert marksmen on the web.
There's no need to throw sarcastic insults at the rest of us.
And yes, you did get replies of substance. And no, they had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with being an "expert marksman"
Let's see...hotter, cleaner burning, more consistent, more reliable...where do you get the need to be an "internet expert marksman" to see an advantage from these things?
And here we have a suggestion that you try a comparison, with the expectation that you'll be able to tell the difference. With nothing whatsoever in any way indicating that you need to become a "decent shot".
I don't know why you feel the need to insult people because they say there are different qualities of FMJ handgun ammo
I think the OP should clarify that they want ammo that consistently groups tightly. Basically ammo that a crack shot can put through the same hole CONSISTENTLY at 75 feet.
That being said I would say either WWB NATO or Federal American Eagle Suppressor 9mm. Both are very consistent rounds. The Federal is also very clean. Fiocchi would come in right behind them but just not as tight in grouping. It's funny that most people can't even pronounce it correctly, even people who have been shooting forever and then some.
The thing is you can find WWB NATO (all black lettering except for red Made in USA) at most sporting goods stores. It's hotter and dirtier then the Federal but the Federal is hard to find. Fiocchi can also be found at Cabelas $18 compared to $14 for Winchester.
Pick one, stick with it and practice and then practice some more.
Eventually you will be a decent shot.
That being said I would say either WWB NATO or Federal American Eagle Suppressor 9mm. Both are very consistent rounds. The Federal is also very clean. Fiocchi would come in right behind them but just not as tight in grouping. It's funny that most people can't even pronounce it correctly, even people who have been shooting forever and then some.
The thing is you can find WWB NATO (all black lettering except for red Made in USA) at most sporting goods stores. It's hotter and dirtier then the Federal but the Federal is hard to find. Fiocchi can also be found at Cabelas $18 compared to $14 for Winchester.
Pick one, stick with it and practice and then practice some more.
Eventually you will be a decent shot.
Edcnh
Member
I have had good success with Winchester 124g 9mm NATO. Never had a failure to feed or eject in a few different guns.
That is the WWB NATO that I mentioned. It's good stuff for $14. Very consistent, just a little dirty. You're going to clean your gun anyway after shooting so what's a little extra residue? Occasionally Cabelas will have it on sale for $11.
It's good consistent reliable ammo for target shooting.
Maybe, maybe not
AnselHazen
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I shot 124gr Winchester Nato, Speer Lawman, and S&B at the range competition last year. One of two people out of 16 on avg per shoot who did not experience FTF or FTE issues during the shoots.
Fiocchi and Perfecta and a few other 115 gr will not cycle my gun. You can tell they are all anemic loads.
The brass does reload well, and I'll be shooting my loads this year. The Winchester Nato is crimped and I have to deal with that.
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Deanimator
Member
If you insist on factory ammunition, I'd look at Federal. My guess would be that a lot of people who shoot Beretta 92s/M9s in EIC matches use it.
Personally, when I want "premium" ammunition, I load it myself.
Other than for EIC competition, I don't know a single serious shooter who doesn't handload.
Deanimator
Member
If you don't have one, get yourself a Dillon primer pocket swager.
Jim Watson
Member
I once asked the Nammo rep at SHOT where I could get some of the Swiss hardball they testfired my Sig P210 with. He said he would be glad to talk to me, starting with a million round order.
The old GECO was fabulous, I don't know about the current crop, a friend shot it while it was cheap and it did ok, but that does not make it "premium."
The old GECO was fabulous, I don't know about the current crop, a friend shot it while it was cheap and it did ok, but that does not make it "premium."
Deanimator
Member
- Carelessness - During college my best friend accidentally loaded a bunch of 9x19mm to .380acp levels when the pages of our Hornady manual got stuck together.
- Lack of understanding/skill - Different guns are held to different tolerances and like different ammunition. A lot of people don't understand this. A friend and I used to share a Dillon 550B. His Glock 17 had MUCH looser chamber tolerances than my Browning Hi Power. When loading heavy bullets, I had to drop them into the chamber of the stripped barrel to ensure that they weren't oversized. My gun required tighter sizing than his.
- Crappy components - I was loading a bunch of .38 Special for Camp Perry and the same college friend sent me a lot of "Amerc" ("American Ammunition") headstamped cases. They were bar NONE the worst cases I've ever seen. I've seen less variance between CALIBERS than I saw between individual cases in that lot he sent me. Some had rims too thick to fit under the Dillon's shell plate. Some had primer pockets so tight, you couldn't seat a primer. Others so loose that the primer just fell out. You don't need to use nothing but RWS or Lapua components, but you can't use garbage either.
Deanimator
Member
A friend of mine used to be interested in the 7.92x57JSmm for 600 and 1,000 yards out of a Danish Kar98k based match rifle and an FN-49 with a replacement receiver cover with a base for a Redfield International on it.
Sierra used to [don't know if they still do] make a 198gr. (200gr.?) Matchking in .323 for match rifles in 7.92x57JSmm and 8mm-06. He contacted them and they told him that it was a limited production item, and that he needed to buy in bulk. I forget how many he ordered, but he ended up with something like 1/3 of that year's production, with the balance going to a distributor in Germany.
AnselHazen
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Yes that's on the radar. I got my hands on the RCBS swager die set used, hoping that makes life a little easier but you are right, the Dillon rig seems like the Cadillac solution.
Deanimator
Member
The Dillon swager isn't cheap, but it's well worth the money and doesn't tie up your press.
I have several thousand rounds of just about every manufacturer out there. I just got a case in last week, have not yet opened it, and can't remember what flavor it is. In my full size guns I rarely have a misfire of any sort with any of the ammo. My P-85 was picky until I figured out that it likes to run wet and now it is good with any ammo. Pocket rockets are a different story as they tend to be more ammo sensitive (at least mine are).
My normal practice distance is under 20 yards and none of it gives me any accuracy issues at that range. With my carbines I have found that certain ammo is slightly more accurate out at 35 yards but none of my practice is built around hitting the bullseye as much as it is ringing the steel. My eyesight sucks so extreme accuracy without a scope isn't something I can achieve.
Speer works fine for me but so does Tula steel cased, WWB, Federal and BrassMax. I generally shoot 115 grain for range work though I am moving more into 124 grain because of suppressors.
My normal practice distance is under 20 yards and none of it gives me any accuracy issues at that range. With my carbines I have found that certain ammo is slightly more accurate out at 35 yards but none of my practice is built around hitting the bullseye as much as it is ringing the steel. My eyesight sucks so extreme accuracy without a scope isn't something I can achieve.
Speer works fine for me but so does Tula steel cased, WWB, Federal and BrassMax. I generally shoot 115 grain for range work though I am moving more into 124 grain because of suppressors.
@ Warp
Rather than risk writing a novella for a reply, let me point out that the "decent shot" remark was a tongue-in-cheek response to post #17, which implied that decent shots can tell the difference from premium ammo–implying the rest of us must be the inverse. While you obviously disagree, I believe that certain posts which cause the eyes to roll warrant responses in kind. To respond to a request for a definition by saying that if someone were better/more sophisticated/more expert they would "just get it" is to embody the stereotype of internet gun culture.
I've fired somewhere in the low tens of thousands of handgun rounds with ammunition of all sorts, including many of the brands being put forth as "premium," and even had my only squib with one of the brand names appearing in this thread. For me different brands of handgun ammunition to not create appreciable differences in accuracy. I still have a ways to go, and tend to believe that there is a greater supply of opinions calling ammunition inaccurate than there is actual inaccurate handgun ammunition, just as claims that a handgun is inaccurate more often are observations about the shooter rather than the machine.
Anyway, no hard feelings I hope.
Rather than risk writing a novella for a reply, let me point out that the "decent shot" remark was a tongue-in-cheek response to post #17, which implied that decent shots can tell the difference from premium ammo–implying the rest of us must be the inverse. While you obviously disagree, I believe that certain posts which cause the eyes to roll warrant responses in kind. To respond to a request for a definition by saying that if someone were better/more sophisticated/more expert they would "just get it" is to embody the stereotype of internet gun culture.
I've fired somewhere in the low tens of thousands of handgun rounds with ammunition of all sorts, including many of the brands being put forth as "premium," and even had my only squib with one of the brand names appearing in this thread. For me different brands of handgun ammunition to not create appreciable differences in accuracy. I still have a ways to go, and tend to believe that there is a greater supply of opinions calling ammunition inaccurate than there is actual inaccurate handgun ammunition, just as claims that a handgun is inaccurate more often are observations about the shooter rather than the machine.
Anyway, no hard feelings I hope.
There are a number of "match grade" ammo manufacturers but unless you are shooting a Sig 210 or other target grade pistol you might not notice a difference in accuracy.
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