Is there a Yay or Nay after a Delay?

[Mohawk11]

Hello all new guy Mohawk here,
To give you an idea of how long it's been since I've owned a firearm... I walked into Walmart, pointed to the Ruger 22 rifle, gave the man $86 & walked out!
Needless to say, that same gun is now over $200, & although some of you may be able to pay & walk away, some of us get the big DELAY!!!

Now I've read hear & there of complaints of delays from 5 minutes to 2 hrs. What I'd like to know is, What happens after the 5 days?
5 days & still no response, FFL can legally transfer firearm, transferee purchases firearm.
What happens next?
Do I need to worry about a later call of denial? Will they respond at all even if it's all good?

Tomorrow I'll be able to pick up first firearm in 20 years, I just don't want to get all the gear only to be disappointed later.

Thanks

 

[TAKtical]

Is there a reason that you might get denied?

 

[M2]

There are numerous reasons for a delay, some of which aren't because of you.

After five days your GTG.

Whether it could happen again, there's always a chance but unless you know of a reason for it there's really not much you can do about it, can you?

Cheers! M2

 

[bikemutt]

I don't know about 5 days, I believe its 3 business days for a non-response transfer. I have no idea what happens if the transfer occurs by default, followed by a deny.

 

[Mohawk11]

TAKtical - I'm not entirely sure, had a felony 18 years ago, took care of what was odered

bikemutt - http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2004/11/111204-fbi-nics-delay.pdf this is what the agent told the ffl.


Found this on another forum...

Amos -----------
Senior Member


I've heard my LGS explain it several times that by law the purchase/transfer can be delayed, as noted above, three business days. If the NICS doesn't call back within that time with either a proceed or a deny, then the transfer can go ahead. If a deny comes in later, then the purchaser will be contacted to return the firearm. My LGS is pretty tight about following the law and will refuse a sale if they get a feeling it's a bit too hinky for them.

 

[burk]

I've been back in the business for a year now and I have never seen a delay turn into a denial. While in some cases NIC's doesn't get back to us, our policy is 8 days after you can buy the gun. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it hasn't in a year in a store that sells thousands of guns. I've only seen about 6 (instant) denials in a year for the whole store. We have had a few clear attempts at straw purchases including one where a father came in and tried to buy a gun for his son a day after his son was denied (his son also tried a straw purchase with a friend). I suspect most denials are common or similar names to someone being investigated or a lack of data.

 

[bikemutt]

Well, I don't know what you mean when you say you had a felony and took care of what was ordered. With respect to firearms possession lost as a result of a felony conviction, a person generally needs to have that right restored by a state high court order, pardon from the governor or some other legal procedure. There are states though that automatically restore the right to possess automatically upon completion of sentencing terms.

In any event, if your right to possess has been restored, I wouldn't be concerned about a post-delay transfer which later becomes a deny.

When I got denied once I knew it was not right. I fought it and prevailed. If you find yourself in the same situation, I suggest you do the same. Yes it takes time, and there is disappointment, but, what's right is right, and is always worth the fight.

 

[BSA1]

Actually you may be in violation of the law if you currently possess a firearm.

A felony conviction not only prohibits you from purchasing a firearm but also owning/possessing one as well.

bikemutt comment that "There are states though that automatically restore the right to possess automatically upon completion of sentencing terms" is interesting. Even if the state would restore your right I am not sure that makes it legal with the Feds.

Best advice is consult a lawyer. Even if you decide not to go through the gun purchase I would encourge you to get your criminal record expunged. Little things like that can have big consequences if someone is really angry at you and want revenge such as a divorce.

 

[bikemutt]

Even if the state would restore your right I am not sure that makes it legal with the Feds.

You raise a good point BSA1.

I've heard there are states that, even though firearm rights have been restored, the fed does not recognize the validity of the restoration. And I've heard there are others which the fed does recognize. I don't recall specific examples of either case.

Best advice is consult a lawyer

Yup.

 

[Zoogster]

Bikemutt said:

I've heard there are states that, even though firearm rights have been restored, the fed does not recognize the validity of the restoration.

Some states actually remove the finding of guilt or the conviction altogether, while others certify that the person has been rehabilitated or that the conviction will no longer be used against them if they go through proper procedures.

The irony is that those that erase the guilty finding or conviction altogether can qualify to restore rights. While those that did something bad and must still accept responsibility for it but have since changed and demonstrate it cannot regain their rights.

Under the law the guy that has done something wrong, accepts responsibility for their past wrongs, and demonstrates they have changed enough for the state to consider them rehabilitated is inferior to the guy that does something wrong, can sweep it under the rug, and can then lie about having ever done anything wrong.
Because the former is considered to still have done it, while the later is considered to have not committed the crime.

In law the liar is superior to the reformed.

So a state that considers someone reformed and gives them their rights back does not qualify federally. But a state that says the convicted person actually never did anything after all does qualify federally.

 

[bob barker]

TAKtical - I'm not entirely sure, had a felony 18 years ago, took care of what was odered

bikemutt - http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2004/11/111204-fbi-nics-delay.pdf this is what the agent told the ffl.


Found this on another forum...

Amos -----------
Senior Member


I've heard my LGS explain it several times that by law the purchase/transfer can be delayed, as noted above, three business days. If the NICS doesn't call back within that time with either a proceed or a deny, then the transfer can go ahead. If a deny comes in later, then the purchaser will be contacted to return the firearm. My LGS is pretty tight about following the law and will refuse a sale if they get a feeling it's a bit too hinky for them.

There you go.. Felons should not own firearms.

 

[Flyincedar]

You definitely need to double check with an attorney. You may not have rights. I am not a lwyer.

Also, how are you answering question 11c on the 4473?

I am, however, an ffl-

To answer your original question, after 3 business days, if a delay does not change to proceed or deny, the ffl can transfer the firearm. Those that wait longer, do so due to their own policies, not those of the ATF.