Just had a scary experience!!! Now getting CCW

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Babarsac

Babarsac

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I was heading home through Deland, FL just a bit ago and at a stop sign was a guy trying to hitch a ride. He walked out into the road and over to my open drivers window to ask for a ride. He started to plead for a ride to the interstate (which was in the opposite direction) and I told him I couldn't. Here's where it got interesting. He reached in and unlocked the rear door of my car! There was a car behind me and heavy cross-traffic in front, and I felt completely stuck. Luckily I saw a small opening in traffic and was able to take it.....whew.

The guy on the side of the road was a lot smaller and older then me but I didn't know if he had a gun, knife, or nothing on him. This made me think a lot on the ride home so I just but out and online request for the forms to get the ball rolling on a carry permit.

Time to take more responsibility for myself.
 
It's not really about the window. Even though I was probably in less danger than I thought I did feel up against a wall. Plus I needed to stop giving myself excuses not to get a CCW.
 
How will a gun protect you from having your window open?
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I don't really see how that is relevant. Or should I say that it is missing the point. Are you suggesting that there are no threats to persons while in their vehicles as long as the windows are up?

I had a situation the night before I moved out of Orlando where a guy tried to OPEN my window with his fists while we were stuck in traffic. I dissuaded him from that course of action.


-- John
 
Yeah my window usually stays up when I'm driving through Orlando at night to see my girlfriend. But I don't plan to drive around the rest of my life with the windows up on a nice day.
 
I don't really see how that is relevant.
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Perhaps the point is that a failure to keep your windows up and your doors locked under such circumstances is the first step in maintaining personal security. By all means get a CC license. But that doesn't mean you should neglect common sense precautions that may keep you from having to use your ccw.
 
How will a gun protect you from having your window open?
Click to expand...

I don't really see how that is relevant. Or should I say that it is missing the point. Are you suggesting that there are no threats to persons while in their vehicles as long as the windows are up?
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No. I am suggesting that leaving his window down may have been a significant contributing factor to the incident. having his window rolled up might well have prevented the incident entirely.

In any case, leaving your window open at a stop sign in an urban area with street people around is just dumb. They can easily beat you upside the head with a blunt instrument or stick you with something sharp long before you can draw and shoot.
 
Well this wasn't exactly an urban area. Think quaint downtown area with old couples and little kids. But my view may be a little changed now.
 
ilbob,

No offense, but the shortness of your post 3 minutes after the OP had a "snarky" feel to it. I could be wrong and I am not making an issue of that.

However, I felt that the post merited more of a response.

As I pointed out, a piece of glass in no way is a magical barrier to threats. I know better from experience.


-- John
 
Babar,

Glad you are ok and glad it got you thinking.

You have presented a very good account of how a situation can go from fairly benign to dangerous in a matter of seconds. I am sure you have this event replaying in your mind. The "should haves" and "could haves", the things that may or may not have happened. Just remember that anything can happen at any time... day or night.

It can be inferred from your statement,

"Yeah my window usually stays up when I'm driving through Orlando at night to see my girlfriend. But I don't plan to drive around the rest of my life with the windows up on a nice day."

that only bad things can happen at night although you probably did not mean it to be interpreted that way.

None of us can know 'without doubt' when or if we will be involved in an event where our safety is threatened. As sentient beings, we do have the advantage of developing, practicing and honing our self/situational-awareness skills at any time, day or night. Although we can only reduce our chances of being directly involved in a situation by practicing these life skills, it is better than nothing!

Stay safe!
 
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Although I agree that the tone of ilbob's post seemed a bit "off", I think it raises a valid point.

Barbasac, it sounds like you need to address not only your lack of a handgun, but also your entire tactical mindset. Remember that the gun is just one of the tools in your tool kit. Far more valuable can be the awareness and the ability to sense danger that comes from a heightened attention to your surroundings.

If you haven't read Col Cooper's "Colors", you should -- and you should be trying to live your life in Yellow at the minimum. That will help you avoid 90+% of the situations that lead to trouble.

In addition to the CCW, get training to go with it. Not just the mandatory class to get your license - but some real tactical training. And not just handgun training - make it combat training. The combination of attitude, training and the tools will make you safer and much more confident.

Jim
 
It's good to leave your window up in situations when it seems prudent to do so, but it's highly unrealistic to say that you'll leave your windows up all the time and tell any passenger in your vehicle that they can never roll down their windows under any circumstances. You can't know for sure if and when you may be attacked (only know more probable times than others). If you get a concealed permit and carry at all times that you legally can, that seems like you'll be more more likely to have your strategy available at the surprise moment than if you rely on your window being up, because you can guarentee that you'll have the handgun with you while you can't necessarily guarentee that the window will happen to be up when the attack happens. Although, of course it's good to have your window up if it seems prudent.

Just like I lock my bedroom door at night to give me extra time, but it's unrealistic to have it locked 24/7 whenever I'm in my bedroom. I carry my handgun, pepper spray, and dart firing air taser with me at almost all times when within my apartment, which is realistic to guarentee.
 
+1 on all the above recommendations, etc.

Get some good training and do some homework on the subject. CCW and a personal firearm with the right education is never a bad thing.

In the case mentioned, i'd be a fan of pepper spray/gel. To be honest, i do carry the spray while i've been reading up on the gel/foam. While I would've probably used it in that situation, i probably would've had to worry about getting myself in the process. Hmm... might have to get around to purchasing some of the gel/foam stuff.

While I would've been very concerned in that moment, I would've been leary to deploy a firearm based on that scenario. While you may have well have been within your right, just not sure i'd have gone that route. For one, it sounds like he was REAL close and retention might have been an issue. Similar thoughts with a blade. the spray offers a "less than lethal" option while allowing me to reserve the firearm for if the situation escalated.
 
Three years ago I bought a truck. For the first time since '81 I could live with summertime driving with my windows rolled up.
Just before that "life change" I had a guy blind side me through a down window. I had seen him...then lost track in the mirror shift. All of a sudden he was in my ear...Closest I've come to drawing my gun. I watch very well now. I just don't want another spooky guest in my window.
Get your CC, button up best you can while out, and watch out for those oddball events.

Mark.
 
No. I am suggesting that leaving his window down may have been a significant contributing factor to the incident. having his window rolled up might well have prevented the incident entirely.
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isnt that kinda like saying that leaving your door unlocked at home is an invitation to having someone break in...

sorry but i dont buy the thought process that somehow my actions or lack thereof makes me at fault for someone else attempting to commit a crime against me...

i would suggest that having the above mentioned scumbag never being released from jail in the first place would have been a good step in never having a problem... the only contributing factor in the story above was that someone with a criminal mindset tried to commit a crime... the victim isnt at fault...

and in FL, carjacking (which is what that was) is a valid reason to use lethal force
 
Babarsac,

I still have a lot to learn.

We all do. In fact, when we stop learning, we're dead.

Jeff Cooper's 'color codes' are explained briefly here: http://www.teddytactical.com/SharpenBladeArticle/4_States of Awareness.htm . BTW, the link to author/instructor (and THR member) Tom Givens' Rangemaster facility is incorrect as posted in that article- it should be www.rangemaster.com .

But there is no substitute for reading the good colonel's little book itself. You can get it at http://www.paladin-press.com/detail.aspx?ID=1308 . I join Navy87Guy in suggesting you study it carefully.

Stay Safe,

lpl/nc
 
Personal experiences like these are what change people's minds almost immediately. It's personal experiences like these that have changed laws for entire states.

Hopefully there won't be a next time.
 
isnt that kinda like saying that leaving your door unlocked at home is an invitation to having someone break in...

sorry but i dont buy the thought process that somehow my actions or lack thereof makes me at fault for someone else attempting to commit a crime against me...
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The criminal is still the criminal. But if you choose not to take simple precautions to keep yourself safe, you are contributing to the problem. The idea is to prevent a crime rather than having to use deadly force to respond to one.

I will grant you nothing can prevent every crime, but you are not making things any harder for the crooks by not locking your doors.

Do you really believe you are safer if you have to shoot a crook, as opposed to having the crook just wonder off elsewhere because you locked your doors?
 
The criminal is still the criminal. But if you choose not to take simple precautions to keep yourself safe, you are contributing to the problem.
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Woah ilbob, back that train up.
I don't care if Babarsac was driving a brand new BMW convertible with the top down and an open briefcase full of $100 bills, if someone reaches in to grab that money it's not because Barbasac was stupid, it's because that other person made the choice to commit a CRIMINAL ACT.

Having the attitude, no matter how obliquely that the victim was "asking for it" doesn't fly with rape, theft, or any other of a multitude of crimes and when we imply -at all- that somehow it's the victim's fault for some sort of complicity we empower the criminals and reduce all of the honest, trusting folks out there.
 
I disagree with that, ZeSpectere. Both my Law Enforecement classes and in Army basic training I was taught that a crime consists of three elements: Desire, Opportunity, and Probability of Success. You control the second one almost completely, and the third partially. How you do so determines the rise of the first one in another person. Yes,ultimately, a person is supposedly held responsible for their own actions. Sadly far too few in today's society do not hold responsibility for their own actions. Jung and Adler killed Freud's superego.
 
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I certainly don't want to put words in ilbob's mouth, so I'll just provide my own perspective on his comments.

ZeSpectre is 100% on the mark - the guilty party is the perpetrator, not the victim. In the absolute sense, I think we are better off apprehending (or permanently stopping) a violent criminal rather than just passing him off to an "easier target". That said, I'm also not an advocate of inviting trouble so I try to be cautious and not find myself part of the "3 Stupids" - stupid places, with stupid people, doing stupid things.

Yes, I lock my doors and keep my windows up. I scan for unusual activity around me, and I keep my porch lights on at night. Criminals repeatedly report that they are looking for "easy" targets - whether that means unaware, unprotected or just weak. I'd rather not have to find out first hand how my training has prepared me to deal with an encounter, so I'll take the extra steps to try to avoid as many as possible. That doesn't mean someone else deserves any "blame" if they don't avoid the same situation -- that's a choice everyone has to make for themselves.

Jim
 
I disagree with that, ZeSpectere. Both my Law Enforecement classes and in Army basic training I was taught that a crime consists of three elements: Desire, Opportunity, and Probability of Success. You control the second one almost completely, and the third partially. How you do so determines the rise of the first one in another person. Yes,ultimately, a person is supposedly held responsible for their own actions. Sadly far too few in today's society do not hold responsibility for their own actions. Jung and Adler killed Freud's superego.
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Entropy,

I think you might want to review that a bit. The three elements of a crime STILL fall under the choices made by the criminal. That a criminal is presented with a "tempting" scenario in no way absolves the criminal from the choice he makes to give in to temptation and commit a crime. The Victim is still the victim and the criminal is still the criminal.

I'm not saying that in the real world one shouldn't take a few common sense steps toward securing self and property, but when we start assigning blame to the victim we both create an "excuse" for the criminals to use (oh he tempted me to steal that money, etc) and start the kind of downhill slide that led to legislation where a man had his firearms stolen (from a safe mind you) and those firearms were used to kill someone, and a lawsuit was brought up against the original owner for failure to control his firearms. (in other words he got victimized TWICE).
 
Both my Law Enforecement classes and in Army basic training I was taught that a crime consists of three elements: Desire, Opportunity, and Probability of Success.
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Actually, you don't control any of those. They are all assesments made by the perpetrator. To say that driving around with your windows down is asking for it is way over the top. I am not going to live in fear. I have the right to be there and the right to enjoy life. I am not going to let some ne'r do well force me into a siege mentality. That is part of the reason I always carry. That's also part of the motivation for teaching CCW classes. Good people should not have to live in fear!

It's not even fair to ding him on situational awareness, since it seemed he saw the incident unfold from the start (the guy didn't surprise him). It only became a serious incident at the time the guy reached in and unlocked the door. That's the point where it would have been reasonable to display your weapon.

Most states w/Castle Doctrine consider your car as your "castle" so as far as use of deadly force, the situation would have justified it in those states.
 
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