rangerruck
Member
If you have one , or know someone who has, since i have been thinking about purchasing one of these, are the reliable? are they easy to control? do they fall apart? or would I be throwing my money away?
kel tec 223 pistol questions?
- Thread starter rangerruck
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michiganfan
Member
Mosey on over to KTOG and you'll get all your questions answered. I have one but I haven't shot enough to give you the low down. So far for four hundred rounds its been flawless.
http://www.ktog.org/vbulletin/
http://www.ktog.org/vbulletin/
rangerruck
Member
a big, fat, thanks for that link.
michiganfan
Member
Thats what were all here for. My pleasure.
RecoilRob
Member
I just got done cleaning mine after a range session. To answer your questions in order: Yes, (conditional) Yes, NO, NO.
The stock weapon is easy to shoot with minimal recoil...certainly not like any magnum type kicker, more of a push that causes some muzzle rise and a bit back at ya. KT offers the muzzle brake shown and I shot it for the first time today. YES!! Berry, BERRY nice! It actually depresses the muzzle on firing! At first, this seems bad but you quickly notice that the sights are still where you touched off the round and ready for another in the same place. I was able to double and tripple tap a 6" rock at close to 50yds. Well done KT!
I broke the 500 round mark this afternoon and tonights cleaning was its' first. Wanted to see how it worked when dirty and it works well. Only ammo it seems to not like is Wolf (big surprise, eh?) but it WILL eat 100+ before starting to have ejection problems. If you keep shooting, the problem escalates into failure to extract so I stop shooting Wolf when the ejection troubles start.
Running a mag of brass cased ammo through the gun takes the crud out of the chamber enough for Wolf to work again.....for 100 rounds. And so it goes.......
If you are thinking about getting a PLR, I'd advise getting the 'loaded' version with handguard and brake. On some weapons they are just there for eye candy to pimp it out. The PLR really, really needs the forend if you plan on shooting it like most people do. It only takes 10-15 rounds before the barrel is too hot to touch and the forend gives you a great place to hold for better control than the magwell offers.
The single-point sling is a keeper too. Allows carrying without hands and, when pulled tight in a shooting position, offers a lot of stability to the platform.
Red dot sight is not really needed, but I shoot a LOT better with it than the irons. You cover amost all of the intended target with the irons whilst the red dot allows full vision of the target and surrounding area.
Mine is a 43mm Simmons and, knock on wood, so far has held up just fine to the concussive HELL it goes through when this thing fires.
I left the best part for last...the sound. Rather, the FEEL of shooting these things. With the brake installed, it kind of reminds me of the AR-50 BMG rifle concussion. Not quite so bad, but more than ANY other pistol or rifle I have shot. It pounds you and will make my ears hurt after just a couple of rounds with only 29db earplugs in. Muffs over the plugs for sure for me!
KT builds a quality product and has Customer Service second to none so don't worry about that aspect of the pistol. Everyone I have let shoot mine has lusted after one. They are a VERY entertaining weapon to play with. Don't think I would go straight to it for defensive purposes because of the nasty muzzle blast issue but it would make a dandy Zombie killer out to 200+ yards.
The stock weapon is easy to shoot with minimal recoil...certainly not like any magnum type kicker, more of a push that causes some muzzle rise and a bit back at ya. KT offers the muzzle brake shown and I shot it for the first time today. YES!! Berry, BERRY nice! It actually depresses the muzzle on firing! At first, this seems bad but you quickly notice that the sights are still where you touched off the round and ready for another in the same place. I was able to double and tripple tap a 6" rock at close to 50yds. Well done KT!
I broke the 500 round mark this afternoon and tonights cleaning was its' first. Wanted to see how it worked when dirty and it works well. Only ammo it seems to not like is Wolf (big surprise, eh?) but it WILL eat 100+ before starting to have ejection problems. If you keep shooting, the problem escalates into failure to extract so I stop shooting Wolf when the ejection troubles start.
Running a mag of brass cased ammo through the gun takes the crud out of the chamber enough for Wolf to work again.....for 100 rounds. And so it goes.......
If you are thinking about getting a PLR, I'd advise getting the 'loaded' version with handguard and brake. On some weapons they are just there for eye candy to pimp it out. The PLR really, really needs the forend if you plan on shooting it like most people do. It only takes 10-15 rounds before the barrel is too hot to touch and the forend gives you a great place to hold for better control than the magwell offers.
The single-point sling is a keeper too. Allows carrying without hands and, when pulled tight in a shooting position, offers a lot of stability to the platform.
Red dot sight is not really needed, but I shoot a LOT better with it than the irons. You cover amost all of the intended target with the irons whilst the red dot allows full vision of the target and surrounding area.
Mine is a 43mm Simmons and, knock on wood, so far has held up just fine to the concussive HELL it goes through when this thing fires.
I left the best part for last...the sound. Rather, the FEEL of shooting these things. With the brake installed, it kind of reminds me of the AR-50 BMG rifle concussion. Not quite so bad, but more than ANY other pistol or rifle I have shot. It pounds you and will make my ears hurt after just a couple of rounds with only 29db earplugs in. Muffs over the plugs for sure for me!
KT builds a quality product and has Customer Service second to none so don't worry about that aspect of the pistol. Everyone I have let shoot mine has lusted after one. They are a VERY entertaining weapon to play with. Don't think I would go straight to it for defensive purposes because of the nasty muzzle blast issue but it would make a dandy Zombie killer out to 200+ yards.
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RecoilRob
Member
Ya sure..they will go BANG if dropped far enough directly on the muzzle. IIRC, the P-11 would dimple the primer at 3feet and sometimes fire at 4 and I would imagine the P-40 is the same.
Wolff makes a heavier firing pin spring that takes the 'drop distance' up over 10feet if anyone is feeling queasy with the stocker. No problems with reliability using the heavier spring either. My P-11 has the V-Spring mod and Wolff FPS and is totally reliable.
Let's not make a big, hairy issue out of a dropfire. LOTS of pistols will fire if they hit right..not just the KT. Most people don't drop their weapons on a regular basis and, if they should happen to discharge when dropped, they shoot down into the floor.
Sure, that WOULD get the adrenalin flowing but, unless the pistol has a functioning firing pin saftey, it can and will happen.
Wolff makes a heavier firing pin spring that takes the 'drop distance' up over 10feet if anyone is feeling queasy with the stocker. No problems with reliability using the heavier spring either. My P-11 has the V-Spring mod and Wolff FPS and is totally reliable.
Let's not make a big, hairy issue out of a dropfire. LOTS of pistols will fire if they hit right..not just the KT. Most people don't drop their weapons on a regular basis and, if they should happen to discharge when dropped, they shoot down into the floor.
Sure, that WOULD get the adrenalin flowing but, unless the pistol has a functioning firing pin saftey, it can and will happen.
I was *this* close to getting one this last weekend. Went back to look at it today and it was gone. 
Great review and movie of the 223 here...
http://www.gunblast.com/Kel-Tec_PLR-16.htm
Great review and movie of the 223 here...
http://www.gunblast.com/Kel-Tec_PLR-16.htm
The smaller pistols and the upcoming PF-9 have different trigger system that will not drop fire, BTW. As RecoilRob said, they will only fire if dropped from a height of about 4 feet muzzle first on a hard surface. While not a good thing, of the three reports of it happening that I have read of (including the dealer), no one was ever injured (except for their pride).
Of the other two, one happened when a guy was playing with a kid, jumped in the air, and managed to bounce the pistol out of its loose holster. The other was left in a bed-mounted toolbox in a truck, and got hauled out tangled in other gear, then fell.
As for this second-hand report, forgive me if I treat it with some skepticism. After all, we have no details, gun store guys are notorious for being full of BS, and this one doesn't even know/care that the P-32 and P-3AT cannot have this happen but stopped carrying them anyway. For all I know, he read about one of the two incidents above, "personalized it", then used it as an excuse for why he didn't have something in stock you wanted...
Of the other two, one happened when a guy was playing with a kid, jumped in the air, and managed to bounce the pistol out of its loose holster. The other was left in a bed-mounted toolbox in a truck, and got hauled out tangled in other gear, then fell.
As for this second-hand report, forgive me if I treat it with some skepticism. After all, we have no details, gun store guys are notorious for being full of BS, and this one doesn't even know/care that the P-32 and P-3AT cannot have this happen but stopped carrying them anyway. For all I know, he read about one of the two incidents above, "personalized it", then used it as an excuse for why he didn't have something in stock you wanted...
Great little guns, they will peg your fun meter. They are easy to control and yes you will waste your money, that is on buying ammo. I have almost 1K through mine with no problems. I went with a two point sling hookup, I like it better. The forgrip is a must and I love the holosight on mine.
pocketgun.
i wouldn't argue with you.
i left some of the story out..see if its the same you know of....he said he was at hi friends house and his friend moved his bathroom carpet to show him where the gun shot the tile and i thought he said bounce to the cieling but might have said the wall.
I don.t believe everything hear. I'm not sure that you could hit a bathroom ceiling from hitting the floor first.
i wouldn't argue with you.
i left some of the story out..see if its the same you know of....he said he was at hi friends house and his friend moved his bathroom carpet to show him where the gun shot the tile and i thought he said bounce to the cieling but might have said the wall.
I don.t believe everything hear. I'm not sure that you could hit a bathroom ceiling from hitting the floor first.
RecoilRob
Member
MartinS
The gas system IS AKish but not naked. The above barrel tube contains the gas piston and rod surrounded by the recoil spring.
Really clean and well designed setup. Only negative I see is the difficulty in getting at the locking lugs in front of the chamber (vs AR-15). The magwell is kind of in the way and you cannot get at it straight from the rear so you must clean from the muzzle.
Not a biggie and just takes a little more effort to get clean but the lack of gas impingement keeps things cleaner longer, again vs the AR.
I agree about needing a duster! But shudder at the thought of actually needing to engage a BG without hearing protection. Better to be deaf than dead, I guess.
The gas system IS AKish but not naked. The above barrel tube contains the gas piston and rod surrounded by the recoil spring.
Really clean and well designed setup. Only negative I see is the difficulty in getting at the locking lugs in front of the chamber (vs AR-15). The magwell is kind of in the way and you cannot get at it straight from the rear so you must clean from the muzzle.
Not a biggie and just takes a little more effort to get clean but the lack of gas impingement keeps things cleaner longer, again vs the AR.
I agree about needing a duster! But shudder at the thought of actually needing to engage a BG without hearing protection. Better to be deaf than dead, I guess.
M2 Carbine
member
Most interesting, fun gun that I've bought in a long time.
I'm probably the only PLR owner that doesn't like a forend.
I liked the stripped down light weight of it, but the forend is necessary.
I tried mounting lasers/lights to the barrel and there's just too much heat transfer. I didn't think the electronics would be able to take it for long, so I installed the forend on my PLRs.
I'm probably the only PLR owner that doesn't like a forend.
I liked the stripped down light weight of it, but the forend is necessary.
I tried mounting lasers/lights to the barrel and there's just too much heat transfer. I didn't think the electronics would be able to take it for long, so I installed the forend on my PLRs.
chipp said:
I don't think it could go off if dropped on carpet from waist height. Who in the heck has carpet over tile? In any event, both the ADs I read about landed on concrete from approximately 4-5 feet, and landed straight down on the muzzle. I don't see how a bullet could then strike something above it without the muzzle being in the way. No blame on you, but I think the guy's second-hand story is a load of BS.
Careful of what you hear in gun stores: I have heard customer's told many crazy, even dangerous things.
Everyone I have read about seems to really enjoy their PLR-16. I am an AR guy, but if I buy a pistol in 5.56mm, it will be the Han Solo approved PLR!
Lobotomy Boy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2004
- Messages
- 2,449
My next gun purchase will be a PLR-16. I plan on making it my truck gun--it should fit nicely in the pocket behind my passenger seat. Plus having a handgun carry permit means I can carry it uncased and loaded, being that it's a handgun and not a rifle and all that. I've been researching these things since they came out and have not found a single negative comment about them.
Manedwolf
member
In curiousity, I have to wonder what sort of NFA paperwork would be needed to put a .223 silencer on one of these. It already has the threads!
dragongoddess
member
Anyone know the going price for these little gems.
RecoilRob
Member
The local gunshop here in SW PA has them for $488...when they have them in stock. Which isn't often. They sell quickly.
At a gunshow last Saturday, I saw one with a $599 tag on it! Not a good price....
Most people pay in the mid to high $400's for the naked version and another $60-70 for the dressed up one.
At a gunshow last Saturday, I saw one with a $599 tag on it! Not a good price....
Most people pay in the mid to high $400's for the naked version and another $60-70 for the dressed up one.
dragongoddess
member
The local gun shop I buy from has a "naked version" for $549. I thought that was a bit high and the price you stated seems to bear that out. Maybe I can talk him down on it.
Still 2 Many Choices!?
Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
- Messages
- 455
.223 or 5.56 pistols are fun...
I want to suppress mine. PLR-16 does look cool, but I prefer the ergos of my AR-15 pistol. Cost $650 to build on a RR receiver. Never jammed, or anything. I need a new optic for it though. Man that thing can make a fireball, and the percussion out of that 10.5" barrel is awe inspiring. More than likely, I will end up with a PLR-16 also. I think I will go fondle my home-made PDW now .
Still 2 Many Choices!?
I want to suppress mine. PLR-16 does look cool, but I prefer the ergos of my AR-15 pistol. Cost $650 to build on a RR receiver. Never jammed, or anything. I need a new optic for it though. Man that thing can make a fireball, and the percussion out of that 10.5" barrel is awe inspiring. More than likely, I will end up with a PLR-16 also. I think I will go fondle my home-made PDW now
.Still 2 Many Choices!?
M2 Carbine
member
That's too high for Texas.
My two cost $430 a few months ago and today they were selling at the Dallas show for $420-$435.
BTW, the large muzzle flash can be done away with with a Phanton flash hider (like in my above pictures).
Without the flash hider.
With the Phantom flash hider.
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dragongoddess
member
Well since there is little competition out here we do suffer with higher prices. I guess I need to schedule a weekend trip around one of the gun shows in Dallas. Then again I still won't save any money when you figure hotel,gas and food. Might do it once though just to see how out of wack our prices are.
Yet while our situation means things like the PLR-16 will be priced higher here there are limits to the price on the more expensive weapons.
OH BTW where does one order the forends from.
Yet while our situation means things like the PLR-16 will be priced higher here there are limits to the price on the more expensive weapons.
OH BTW where does one order the forends from.
M2 Carbine
member
Yeah, I understand. I hate to see dealers take advantage like that.
Kel Tec has the forearm, sling and a muzzle brake for, I think, in the neighborhood of $80.
The barrel gets very hot very fast. Even though I'd rather not have a forearm they are necessary and give you a place to hang on junk.
The KT sling hooks on just at the back, not like my (M1 Carbine) sling shown above.
Kel Tecs muzzle brake is not a flash hider and does little to suppress the noise and flash but it does wonders for the recoil, which isn't bad anyhow.
I've got video that shows the recoil is reduced by at least two thirds.
I've got the KT muzzle brake on one PLR and the Phantom flash hider on the second PLR and they are very noticeably different to shoot.
Kel Tec has the forearm, sling and a muzzle brake for, I think, in the neighborhood of $80.
The barrel gets very hot very fast. Even though I'd rather not have a forearm they are necessary and give you a place to hang on junk.
The KT sling hooks on just at the back, not like my (M1 Carbine) sling shown above.
Kel Tecs muzzle brake is not a flash hider and does little to suppress the noise and flash but it does wonders for the recoil, which isn't bad anyhow.
I've got video that shows the recoil is reduced by at least two thirds.
I've got the KT muzzle brake on one PLR and the Phantom flash hider on the second PLR and they are very noticeably different to shoot.
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