Kel-Tec .380, what are the FACTS?

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Chris,

That's great to hear. Many P-3AT's, like yours, run fine out of the box. As noted earlier on this thread, I did the F&B before shooting it because I chose to, not because of any problems. I'm glad I did, as I got to know my pistol, and it has functioned very well.

If yours is working fine, then indeed just keep it cleaned and lubed, and you should be good to go. From here on out, that's all I intend to do with mine.
 
7.62mm

No insult to you Wolfy, but firing a 100 rounds through a Kel-tec straight out of the box will probably ruin it.
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That pretty much sums up the quality of this pistol.

I clean and lube all my guns before taking to the range for the first time.

If a gun needs more than that to work properly than it is not built right.


Not sure about you but most people research thier purchases before hand and know the trouble thier getting into. As such a Kel-tec is alot of work even before the first round is fired.
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I researched the P3AT on this board and realised it was a crap shoot QC wise. I got a lemon and am sorry I ever rolled the dice. If anyone asks I will tell advise them to stay as far away as possible from this "firearm".


You mean you'd CCW an unfired, uncleaned gun straight out of the box?
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NJ doesn't allow CCW and probably never will I bought this gun "just because" but if I lived in a gun friendly state that allowed CCW I would hope the BG was carrying a Keltec.
 
Kel-tec are carry guns, plain and simple. I dont know why someone would get one otherwise.

And they're cheap. You have a good chance of getting a good weapon for a great price. If not, i'm sure you can afford a few trips to the factory with the money saved when compared to 'better' guns. Thats if it isnt something you can handle yourself.

This is the way with kel-tecs. Like others said, most understand this when they're getting into it. For someone that knew what they were getting into, you sure seem to be throwing in the towel pretty quickly.
 
I'll post again

The Seecamp is ready to go, but they are waiting for payment and FFL info to arrive. The paperwork should get there by Friday and I should have the Seecamp mid week, next week.

You can also use Gold Dots from what I understand besides the Silvertips, but I'll prob stick with the silvertips. Besides I don't plan to practice all that much, initially I'll prob put 100 rounds through it. Its not a range gun, last ditch self defense is what it is for.

I know not 100% of Seecamps out of the box are going to be flawless, but from what I have read they seem more reliable then Kel-Tec, but I'll find out. And I don't recall who posted, but that handgunreview is garbage, they are all old posting, and there are only 1 or 2 for the Seecamp. And I'm sorry but the MK9 is WAY TOO heavy, to carry .
 
Seecamps probably are a bit more reliable than Kel-Tecs in general. You read more about problems with KT pistols for this reason - there's a whole BUNCH more of them.

For the last year figures seem to be available (2001), Seecamp made 3,000 pistols. Kel-Tec made 35,000 P-32s. They made 30,000 P-3ATs in it's first year (ending 5/04).

NAA made 2,100 Guardian .32s in 2001.

That's a big reason you see more reports of problem pistols vs. it's competitors.

http://www.shootingindustry.com/02pages/SpecRep3.html#Anchor-PISTOL-35882
 
Alamo,
I worked for a medical electronics company that was attacked in the media by Ralf Nader for reliablity problems.

The managment could say something like your post [except about electronics, not guns ] to the employees, but could not fit that message in a sound bite in the media.

Now whenever I see Ralph on TV talking about nuke power plant design or whatever, I can't help but think, "You bum, I'll bet everything you are saying is ful of oversimplifications!"
 
You get what you pay for???

Okay, I have never owned a Kel-Tec so I don't want to talk like I have personal experience with them. Besides even if I did have/had a Kel-Tec it wouldn't really matter if my experience was bad or good because I'm just one person.

In MY OPINION (and I'm sincere) I would venture to say that most casual posters in forums post on a pistol when there are problems, so it would be more likely to skew the PERCIEVED numbers that way.

Now, my dad owns a Kel-Tec 9mm and it just looks cheap, and I have seen the .32 and .380 and they also look cheap. Now I understand that doesn't equate to a bad gun, and I know that is a common complaint with Kel-Tecs (their looks).

But most of the time the old saying "you get what you pay for" is true I think. And how can an American company paying people decent wages, sell their product for so cheap? I don't know and I don't claim to know, maybe there is a logical reason. I just don't see myself buying one.
 
And how can an American company paying people decent wages, sell their product for so cheap? I don't know and I don't claim to know, maybe there is a logical reason.
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Simple answer - less expensive materials, lots of polymer vs. mostly steel and volume, volume, volume.
 
OK, but...

OK, the volume answer makes sense.

What about cheaper materials though? Like the polymer, seems although a lot of people don't like it. I had a glock, it was fine but I have experience with other brands that were polymer that had problems. And that seems to be norm from my experience with reading and talking to other people. Norm being glocks (and H & K) are solid and there are often problems with the others.
 
I haven't had even a lick of problem with a Kel-Tec!

And that's because I didn't buy one!

When I got my new carry license last year, I set about to find a good carry weapon. I considered the Kel-Tecs and the Beretta Tomcat. I purchased the Tomcat based on Beretta's reputation.

Well, the Tomcat proved to be a disappointment. It has some nice features: the tip up barrel is a great feature, and the pistol is all steel. The disappointing things were: The grips cracked, as did the replacement grips from Beretta also cracked (so I made my own walnut grips since I do woodworking and they have held up very well); but the worst disappointment was that it fails to feed a round into battery too often to trust my life or the lives of my loved ones with! I think that the .32 ACP is also a little too little in the "stopping power" area.

Based on the research I have done and the many bad reports from owners, I decided to stay away from the Kel-Tec also. I did not want to make another mistake like above.

I bought a Smith & Wesson 642 DAO hammerless SS revolver that weighs 15 ounces (I have come to the conclusion that you HAVE to have a little more weight to also have true reliability!). It holds 5 rounds of +P .38 Special 158 grain lead hollowpoints (known as the "FBI" load), which gives it plenty of "stopping power".

The price was reasonable, considering the quality of this firearm (I paid only ~$50 more than the P3AT going rate) There was (and is now) a special price promotion from S&W. The value of my life and the lives of my loved ones puts the cost of the weapon at the bottom of my priorities to consider.

This revolver rides very easily in a DeSantis Nemisis holster in my front pants pocket and I carry it everywhere without hardly noticing it is there. At the range, it has proved to be 100% reliable and I am very confident that if I'm ever attacked it will go BANG!, BANG!, BANG!, BANG!, BANG!, whether I "limp wrist" it or not!

163810_large.jpg
 
That's a different issue but obviously polymer is cheaper than steel. There are other reasons for cost differences but those are the most obvious.

I dunno about polymer non-Glock/HK reliability vs. steel guns. Depends of course on the design & manufacturer.

One thing about small / light pistols. They are, generally speaking, much less forgiving than larger, heavier pistols to issues like limpwristing, lubrication and some other factors. I would wager that if Glock made a .380 or .32 in the same size/weight as the Kel-Tec P-3AT, it would have a higher return rate for service than their current pistols. Probably a lower return rate than Kel-Tecs due to the extra fit & finish they do for the much higher cost.

When you get your Seecamp owner's manual, you will see a strong caution against limpwristing. KTs, being lighter, are probably more susceptible in this regard.

Lubrication is important also for these pistols. It doesn't take much friction to cause a problem with some of these pistols, particularly when new & need of some break-in rounds to smooth out the parts that slide against each other. Problems can also develop as lube wears off and crud builds up.

IF that were the cause of a problem, it wouldn't overly concern me if my P-3AT jammed after 75+ rounds. It's not a plinker, it only needs to work for the first 7 rounds. I'm sure my P-32s and P-3AT could make 100+ rounds without a problem, they're pretty well broken in but I only shoot 50 at a time.

I think the low cost of Kel-Tecs attracts more novice buyers. Some just take them out of the box (no cleaning or lubrication), get some reloads or the cheapest ammo they can find, don't hold it firmly and fire away and are bitterly disappointed when a problem develops.

Due to the cost and limited availability, I think the Seecamp attracts a more sophisticated & experienced buyer. The limited recommended ammo in Seecamps helps a lot too. Some Kel-Tecs would work fine if the user would only change ammo. I've noticed this seems to enrage some people, if it won't work with every type of ammo made then it is a POS.

Not every problem caused by the above of course, and certainly the P3AT had some teething issues initially but KT has wonderful customer service.
 
RonJon: Your 642 goes__
BANG!, BANG!, BANG!, BANG!, BANG! (5 bangs)

My two P-3ATs, each go__
BANG!, BANG!, BANG!, BANG!, BANG!,
BANG!, BANG!, BANG!, (that's 8 bangs with a seven round magazine and one in the snout) and another magazine ready to just snap in! (picture belows shows a 6 round magazine)


And after just a little work, both of my P-3ATs have done this 100% of the time. One for 750 consecutive rounds and
the other one has done the same for 500 consecutive rounds. The two P-3ATs together weigh just about what your one 642 weighs and all that in a package just 3/4 of an inch wide!
I'll stick with the KTs!
desantis_leather.jpg
 
Kokapelli

If you are going to get into arguments that require that many BANGS, you should be carrying an FAL! LOL!
 
Whether you believe that the Kel Tec is a superb handgun or just the opposite is a person's own business and everyone's entitled to his or her opinion. Expressing that opinion by calling names is not allowed here and can result in not being allowed to post on this site.
 
Hello. At the suggestions of other moderators, I'm unlocking the thread in the hopes that anyone wishing to contribute can do so w/o name-calling.
 
I just bought my own P3AT last week, after having fired our own Byron Quick's (as featured in his article in SWAT magazine, BTW), and a fellow officer's. Amazingly controlable, and both fed everything I tried.

I tried mine with Gold Dot 90g HP, and found that it worked fine for the 9 or so shots I fired. (Hey, at $.50/rd, I couldn't afford more. I'd just tapped out for a pistol!)

I tried PMC 90g FMJ (traditional hemispherical shaped .380 acp cartridge), and found that it functioned well, and shot pretty accurately. About 30 or 35 rds. No Problems.

I tried Winchester 95g FMJ, which is really a truncated cone shape. I love the truncated cone shape, as its meplat acts a lot like a SWC. Unfortunately, I ran into serious problems with this one. In 50 rounds fired, I had 4 failures to extract. Something about the shape of the rimless rim seemed not to allow the extractor claw to get a good grip, and it just ripped loose off the outer edge of the brass rim.

I may make alterations to the extractor, (just shaving back the inside of the claw to allow more relief and make it sharper, using needle files) or I may not, depeding on the results of further testing.

In the meantime, PMC FMJ under a Gold Dot up the spout should be a nice duty load.

I found that, at three yards, one-handed shooting could keep them all on a playing card, pulling the trigger as rapidly as I was able. "Not pow, pow, pow," but "powpowpow." Head shots at 10 yards are easy. Body shots at 15 yards are no problem. At 20 yards, however, hitting the A Zone is a bit of a trick. ;)
 
I just bought a P3AT a few months ago. Did the fluff & Buff, cleaned and lubed and after a few boxes of PMC, I wasn't very happy. I heard that pmc didn't feed well in the Keltec's so I'm gonna try some other ammo. Mine seemed to be doing the same as yours Matt. It looked like the extractor let go of the rim just before the empty case cleared the barrel. I'm gonna keep trying till I get it right, I really like the gun and how it shoots.
 
I'll refrain any further posting on this topic as I am not intelligent enough to be a part of this discussion.


Some members really need to grow up!!!!
 
Matt G you in Dallas? Send me a PM, I'd like to get some Kel-tec owners together for a little meet, maybe share tips.
 
I've been a Kel-Tec owner for several years. I have two P-40's, a P-11, and purchased a P-3AT last month. I'm a member of KTOG and KTrange. You will find a world of useful information at both of those sites. Kel-Tecs might require a little extra prepping out of the box, but it's nothing to get worked up about. The P-3AT is a great carry pistol. I gave mine a fluff and buff out of the box and it has performed flawlessly. It's really hilarious how some people like to try to label Kel-Tecs as POS guns. I wouldn't part with any of mine. Rick
 
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