Kel-Tec has come a long way!

[mtnbkr]

Or you could just hand-load your rounds to nominal factory specs. I know, its a paradime shift. But you dont HAVE to load every round to +P or +P+ specs They wont do anyhting the factory version wont do, and they take up more powder, and ware your gun our faster.

It's called experimentation. I wanted to see what was possible with the gun and the cartridge since this was the only 32acp gun with a locked breech. I took 60gr hollowpoints up to nearly 1200fps and 85gr HPs up to 950fps. As a side benefit, accuracy was improved.

I don't know for certain that my loads did the damage. The crack was in an area that wouldn't normally be stressed by firing. In fact, I found it when I detail-stripped the gun for the first time. It could've been cracked fromt he beginning or it could've cracked after the previous range trip. I'll never know. Areas that would be stressed by hot loads didn't show accelerated wear.

Chris

 

[mick53]

hey,

i've owned 3 kel-tecs:

one P32 that was perfect. i never fluffed, buffed or messed with it other than to shoot and clean it. i loved that tiny pistol. shot a lot of hot fiocci (sp?) jhp through it too. and i mean a lot.

i traded it in on a p-11. loved the size, the mag. cap and just about everything else about that 9mm except:

stovepipes, misfeeds, and failure to lock open on last round. sent it back three times on the third send back they sent me a new one.

it never worked well either. i was going to trade it in on another manufacturer's pistol but i knew some other guy would end up with it so i disassembled it and through it into the hillsborough river. no lie. i went 0-2 in a row on kel-tecs and decided the hell with them. that was my experience.

concept is great in their pistols. in the past, the execution has been inconsistent. perhaps they have their act together now. i don't know.

some guys love 'em, others hate 'em.

1 out of 3 isn't good enough for me.

if you're talking baseball, .333 ain't bad at all.

if you're talking about buying a pistol you may have to depend on one day to defend yourself with, it's not even close.

you guys that like 'em? have at 'em. fluff 'em, buff 'em, grind away at those speed ramps, replace this spring with that spring, flyer wire this, and voodoo juju that. have fun with 'em.

just hope they are there if and when you need 'em.

mike

 

[varoadking]

I have a 2G P32 and a 2G P3-AT. Both have been nothing less than perfect...

 

[Wilson 17&26]

i was going to trade it in on another manufacturer's pistol but i knew some other guy would end up with it so i disassembled it and through it into the hillsborough river. no lie.

That's regrettable! With less than two-hour effort I could have had it 100% and would have happily donated $100 to you favorite charity or the NRA in your name.

I don’t do amateur Smithing on anything but Kel-Tecs but their design is so simple and the parts are free, I just can't help myself. It's a rare occasions when I find one in need of a Fluff & Buff or adjustments but I keep looking

 

[Preacherman]

I've owned three P32's and two P3AT's, and not one of them would complete my standard this-is-a-gun-I-can-trust-with-my-life 200-round no-failures test with carry ammo. I insist on this standard of reliability from ANY weapon that I plan on using to defend my life. Since none of my Kel-Tec's could achieve it (and some couldn't manage two magazines without a failure of some kind!), I dropped Kel-Tec from my list of acceptable-quality manufacturers.

I'd agree with RonJon that for absolute reliability, no pocket auto comes close to a good snubnose revolver. That's why my pocket guns are a S&W 442 or 642, equipped with CT laser grips. They go Bang! every time I need them to... and that's worth more than gold in a life-threatening situation.

 

[Javelin Man]

stovepipes, misfeeds, and failure to lock open on last round. sent it back three times on the third send back they sent me a new one.

it never worked well either. i was going to trade it in on another manufacturer's pistol but i knew some other guy would end up with it so i disassembled it and through it into the hillsborough river. no lie. i went 0-2 in a row on kel-tecs and decided the hell with them. that was my experience.

Sounds like you threw a perfectly good handgun in the river because you had a bad magazine. $10 would've probably fixed it. Your loss.

My P32 and P11 have been great as have almost everybody's that knows how to hold on to the pocket rocket and not blame the gun because they can't let the gun do the work it's supposed to. My right wrist is full of arthritis now and I'm just now trying to shoot left handed because I can't take the pain from nerve damage when I shoot righty. Fortunately, I knew to hold on tight, and I've had NO trouble.

That said, at least you are describing your actual experiences from your own gun, not hearsay from other's. I can't argue with that.

 

[johnster999]

My P-11 is reliable gun. I would not hesitate to carry it if I needed to. I don't like the trigger though. I carry a G26 instead because I shoot it better and can conceal it just as well.

999

 

[mtnbkr]

so i disassembled it and through it into the hillsborough river. no lie

Knowing that it was malfunctioning, I would've given you $50 for it. If nothing else, it's a good source of small parts.

Chris

 

[ranger7]

Although they don't advertise it, Kel Tec buys back malfunctioning guns from the original owner when they can't get them to work to the customer's satisfaction. I know and have the check stub to prove it.

IMHO They must have a big scrap bin. (No way do I believe the "less than 2% returns" figure they talk about.)

 

[albanian]

"Knowing that it was malfunctioning, I would've given you $50 for it. If nothing else, it's a good source of small parts."

I was wondering what the going rate for a used Kel-Tec was.

 

[mick53]

hey,

i added a post to this tread a day or three ago.

for some reason, i decided to read the "sticky" here dealing with "limp wrising."

i added a post there because something suddenly occurred to me.

a lot of limp wristers seem to own kel-tecs. the kel-tec forum is rife with guys describing problems with their kel-tecs who get responses like, oh, you're limp wrising." "classic case of limp wristing." learn how to hold your pistol" and so on.

anyway, i copied my "limp wristing" post to here.


hey,

sure there is such a thing as "limp wristing."

but i agree, if you pull the trigger the projectile should fire and the shell should eject.

i saw a guy at a gun range who had his semi pointed downrange as he was (as he later explained) checking out a trigger job on a semi-auto .45 (the make escapes me at the moment). he had one in the chamber and KNEW it, by the way.

he said he had a very loose grip on the pistol as he was feeling out the "new" pull and BOOM - it fired and flew out of his hand. the pistol had some serious internal damage.

why he didn't dry fire to check out the pull is the real question, but anyway....

i think "limp wristing" is used by manufacurers of marginal firearms and the apologist defenders of these firearms. if you're holding it and pull the trigger, the gun should fire and the shell should eject IF the pistol is functioning properly.

it's that simple.

now, go to the kel-tec forum and do a search for "limp wristing" and see how many threads pop up. seriously, do it, check it out. you'll be amazed.

do the same on any reputable pistol manufacturer's forums and the results are almost nil.

"limp wristing" seems very common with poorly made pistols. i wonder why that is?

mike

 

[Kingknives]

Actually Mike, the problem with "limp wristing" is most often seen in polymer frame pistols. It has to do with the flexing of the polymer frame in the grip of the hand. It can happen in alot of guns, not just Kel-Tecs, but any polymer frame gun, even Glocks.

"Any" gun can be made to malfunction, pistols, revolvers etc.. there are just to many variables involved. Just because any given gun hasn't malfunctioned, doesn't make it 100% reliable, it jut means it hasn't malfunctioned YET!

 

[Javelin Man]

limp

"limp wristing" seems very common with poorly made pistols. i wonder why that is?

mike

Well, mike, you seem to know. Please enlighten the rest of us.

It seems to me the Keltec is the smallest locked breech pistol on the market today and it needs the operator to hold the pistol as best he/she can to allow the mechanism to work. When you're working with a design so small, so light and with such close tolerances, it you don't do your part, the gun won't do it's part. I've been beaned in the forehead by my P11 which is a sure sign I'm not holding it strongly enough. Fortunately, it still kept working for me, but someone else may let the gun jump too much and it won't cycle properly. I can hold my P32 well enough to allow it to cycle, but I can see why people have trouble with the P3AT since it is so powerful for a very small grip.

Of course, if limp wristing is so common among poorly made pistols, how come my Lorcin and Hi-Point aren't affected? BTW, the Hi-Point has been perfect in it's function and excellent in accuracy. I won't defend the Lorcin, but what do you expect for $50 NIB .25 acp?

 

[mick53]

kingknives,

probably some truth to that, and i stress "some."

but i still question kel-tec quality. this may tell the story. check it out for yourselves.

go to google, and do two searches:

1. do an "advanced search" with only the "exact phrase" - "limp wristing."

you'll get 2100 hits

2 now, do another "advanced search" but this time use "limp wristing" as exact phrase and add "kel-tec" to "all the words" in the slot above.

(this simply adds "kel-tec" into the word mix and will show you how many times limp wristing and kel-tec are mentioned in tandem on the internet.

it's an astounding 1430 (out of 2100!?!?).


what does this tell us? well, think about it.

how many pistol manufacturers are there in the world? i'm sure i don't know.

you can exclude all those who don't produce polymer pisols if you like.

the absolute, indisputable fact that you can demonstrate to yourself with a few clicks on your keyboard is good old kel-tec is mentioned in a little more than 66% of any mention of "limp wristing" on the world wide web!

explain that away, if you can, kel-tec apologists.

and for the rest of you folks with open minds, i rest my case.

mike

 

[mick53]

javelin man,

my point exactly. perhaps these pieces o' crap are better made than the kel-tecs.

explain the "google" phenomenon to me if you would, please.

and the first guy that uses the phrase "statistical abberration" deserves to defend his life with a p-11 against a guy with glock.

mike

 

[Derby FALs]

I got 3210 hits for limp-wristing kimber

1160 for usp

1380 for Glock

4190 for Sig

2760 for Beretta

1910 for Kel-Tec

BTW, I trust my life to my P3A-T every day. I even had the P-40 but it hurt like hell to shoot and was too wide. It was reliable though.

 

[LightningJoe]

Oh, yeah? Kel-Tec rules! Wooooo!!!!

 

[mick53]

derby fals,

i guess the numbers don't lie.

it's clear to me now that kel-tecs are much finer pistols than kimbers, sigs and berettas and run neck and neck with the glocks.

how could i have been so wrong. i'm throwing all my pistols into the river and then i'll dive for the p-11 i so rashly heaved into the drink.

a little fluff and buff and it'll be better than new, i'm sure, or at least better than those aforementioned "pretender" pistols like kimber, sig, beretta et al.

my apologies to all you kel-tec guys.

if your forced to go up against some thug armed with a glock, sig, berretta etc. you'll probably survive.

why? because probably no one is going to make that all-important first shot and there will be no subsequent shots fired after.

half the shooters will be trying to tap, rack and clear and the other half will be running for their lives.

i wish someone told me about this limp wristing pandemic. i hope it's not contagious.

is there a "shot" or something to prevent or cure it?

mike

 

[LightningJoe]

If your wrist is limp, get a revolver. If your right forefinger is weak, cock the revolver before you pull the trigger. If your aim is poor, load the revolver with blanks. If the flash and bang frighten you, soak the blanks in crankcase oil for several weeks before loading them in the gun. There is a solution to all the problems mick53 and that albanian guy can possibly have.

There appear to be lots of people who get good service out of their cheap crappy plastic doo-dads from Kel-Tec. The explanation for the hate Kel-Tec posts is psychological not rational.

 

[Darth Ruger]

I've been following this thread just because the debating/arguing is interesting to watch. Without naming any names and starting a flame war, I just can't help laughing at the way some people are completely clueless when it comes to arguing a point. "Shooting yourself in the foot" and "scuttling your own ship" are terms that come to mind when reading the way some of these points have been made.

Anyway, I don't own a Kel-Tec, never even shot one. So I don't have an opinion one way or the other. But the thing I don't understand is that if someone has had bad experiences with these guns and doesn't like them and won't buy another one, why can't they just say so and leave it at that? Others apparently like Kel-Tecs and find they work perfectly fine. Sounds like the same situation with every other brand of gun. But in this case, I don't understand why the people that don't like Kel-Tecs are so determined to convince others that their opinion is the only right one.

 

[Steelharp]

I don't understand why the people that don't like Kel-Tecs are so determined to convince others that their opinion is the only right one.

It seems to me to be the same thing with some of the folks that don't like Glocks... or 1911's... or MTV... the dislike goes so far over the top, into fanaticism, or close to it, sometimes... just don't buy one, or watch it, or whatever. (Yes, I'm a Dad that ousted cable around here because of MTV, so I know what I'm talking about.) We live in a free country (still, thank God), and we have choices.

My wife works for me; she may not for anybody else.

 

[Janitor]

I got 3210 hits for limp-wristing kimber

1160 for usp

1380 for Glock

4190 for Sig

2760 for Beretta

1910 for Kel-Tec

3170 for colt

and my personal fave -

1160 for AR15

I've got an older P32 that works just fine for me whenever I go to the range. Hundreds of rounds through it of the carry ammo, never a failure of any sort. But ... it was given to me as a gift, used. I'm not sure if the original owner did any work on it, or had any grief.

I've also got a P11 that's worked 100% so far on about 300-400 rounds of mixed range & carry ammo. Horrible trigger, but that's a personal thing. The gun is accurate enough, but hard (IMO) to shoot accurately because of the long trigger pull. But ... so far mine has been 100% reliable, and if I didn't have 4-5 guns I prefer so much I'd probably consider carrying it. For now, I just own it to dink around with.

And 'cause it's green.

derby fals,

i guess the numbers don't lie.

it's clear to me now that kel-tecs are much finer pistols than kimbers, sigs and berettas and run ...

Hmm. You were the one who started with the specific and extremely flawed use of numbers obtained through google searches. Myself, that's the only reason I looked up "ar15" and "limp wristing" on google. I'll bet Derby posted with the same intent - to show how off the wall your numbers were. It had nothing at all to do with making a statement about Kel-Tec pistols.


-

 

[1 old 0311]

So the bottom line is to sell our Kimbers, Glocks, AND AR15'S and get the cheap plastic toy?????


Kevin

 

[Janitor]

Actually, I'm fairly sure the bottom line is you should own and shoot whatever the hell it is you like owning and shooting. It's one of the great things about (most of) this country.

-

 

[RonJon]

It just goes to show how Brilliant P.T. Barnum was!