Darth Ruger
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I don't think anyone on this entire thread has said that.Kevin Quinlan said:
Kel-Tec has come a long way!
- Thread starter Maxinquaye
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Mike - the fact of the matter is that Limp Wristing is a Real Condition when you have a light-weight autoloader (that depends upon the exhaust gases to eject a spent round casing) coupled with a moderate-to-large expolsion.
If the weapon is left unstable enough during the cycle (caused by a less-than steady shooting platform or or a less than adequate grip), energy for ejection is lost and the ejection cycle fails.
It is all about Inertia.
Why is this so hard to understand?
This is a lesson in Newtons 3rd Law Of Motion: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
Some Gum/Ammo combinations are more prone to limp wristing. The math looks like this:
Lightweight gun + low power round + strong recoil spring
So in addition to your grip, check the type of ammunition you are using. If ammunition is underpowered it will not reliably cycle the action of your autoloader.
If the weapon is left unstable enough during the cycle (caused by a less-than steady shooting platform or or a less than adequate grip), energy for ejection is lost and the ejection cycle fails.
It is all about Inertia.
Why is this so hard to understand?
This is a lesson in Newtons 3rd Law Of Motion: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
Some Gum/Ammo combinations are more prone to limp wristing. The math looks like this:
Lightweight gun + low power round + strong recoil spring
So in addition to your grip, check the type of ammunition you are using. If ammunition is underpowered it will not reliably cycle the action of your autoloader.
We need to remember how many pistols Kel-Tec sells per year. I keep hearing how a lot of people report their KT's as being bad. Well if KT makes some 30,000-40,000 pistols and sells them then when they have 1-2% problems guess what...thats going to be at least 300-400 problems at 1%. And a lot of people have Kel-Tecs, and why do they buy Kel-Tecs?
1) They are affordable
2) They are compact/light weight
I had a bad P-3AT, and I got rid of it. So I tried again with the P-32 and I'm glad I did, because its great. Only 1 jam in about 250 rounds, and now I have a P-11.
At least give them a try before you bad mouth them, and I HAVE NEVER OWNED A SEMI-AUTO THAT DID NOT JAM. So I think any Semi-auto can and will jam. I have had FAR better luck with revolvers, never a jam. But I own both because they both serve a purpose, so if you want an extremely reliable gun get a revolver, but don't knock Kel Tec in the process.
1) They are affordable
2) They are compact/light weight
I had a bad P-3AT, and I got rid of it. So I tried again with the P-32 and I'm glad I did, because its great. Only 1 jam in about 250 rounds, and now I have a P-11.
At least give them a try before you bad mouth them, and I HAVE NEVER OWNED A SEMI-AUTO THAT DID NOT JAM. So I think any Semi-auto can and will jam. I have had FAR better luck with revolvers, never a jam. But I own both because they both serve a purpose, so if you want an extremely reliable gun get a revolver, but don't knock Kel Tec in the process.
KONY
Member
Bob79 said:
+1! This is exactly what I think. I saw figures posted on a website showing the top selling manufacturers of pistols sold in the U.S. and Kel-tec was at or very close to the top of the list.
mick53
mick53
Derby FALs
mick53
Janitor
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
2 entries found for own.
Main Entry: own
Function: verb
transitive senses
1 a : to have or hold as property : POSSESS b : to have power over : CONTROL <wanted to own his own life>
Example: mick53 was owned using his own methodology.
2 : to acknowledge to be true, valid, or as claimed : ADMIT <own a debt>
intransitive senses : to acknowledge something to be true, valid, or as claimed -- used with to or up
Example: mick53 wouldn't own up to the fact that his argument was negated using his own methodology.
(I keed, I keed!)
.
mick53
Derby FALs
mick53
Janitor
3170 for colt
and my personal fave -
1160 for AR15
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
2 entries found for own.
Main Entry: own
Function: verb
transitive senses
1 a : to have or hold as property : POSSESS b : to have power over : CONTROL <wanted to own his own life>
Example: mick53 was owned using his own methodology.
2 : to acknowledge to be true, valid, or as claimed : ADMIT <own a debt>
intransitive senses : to acknowledge something to be true, valid, or as claimed -- used with to or up
Example: mick53 wouldn't own up to the fact that his argument was negated using his own methodology.
(I keed, I keed!).
duncan
Member
Bob79 said:
As so eloquently stated, Kel Tec makes a lot of friggin guns cheap.
Over time their manufacturing has improved and if you get a gun that needs to go back to the factory, they gladly fix it quick. My P-32 hardchromed slide had too much material on the inside rails so they just swapped my slide for a new one that worked.
For $239, you do get some good value. Sure they are not Sig's but for a thin pocket
Many of the people having problems are shooting out of spec hollowpoints and are having limpwriting or shooting lightly charged WWII 32 acp ammo.
Good fluff and buff and some quality ammo and a good grip = good pocket gun.
Derby FALs
Member In Memoriam
duncan said:
Ammo is a key ingredient. They are designed to function with ammo like Speer Goldots, Winchester Silver tip, etc... It is hard to find ammo that is hot enough for practice that is inexpensive. If the ammo isn't hot enough the pistols may not eject it. I have never had a feed or eject problem with the Goldots or Silver Tips.
duncan
Member
Derby FALs said:
There is some surplus WWII 32 acp ammo in ammo cans this is quite hot and since they are FMJ's you have great reliability.
AIMSurplus used to carry it.
torpid:
Between your post ...
... and your signature:
-
Derby FALs & duncan ... I've had 100% reliability with Sellier & Bellot & Fiocchi FMJ in my P32. I'm not sure of the numbers, but its into at least 250-300 of each. I've tried WWB, but not enough to know anything about it yet. My sense of it is that the WWB isn't quite as accurate as the others, but I'm such a crappy shot with this thing you'd never know it.
-
Between your post ...
... and your signature:
...you came horribly close to costing me a new keyboard.
-
Derby FALs & duncan ... I've had 100% reliability with Sellier & Bellot & Fiocchi FMJ in my P32. I'm not sure of the numbers, but its into at least 250-300 of each. I've tried WWB, but not enough to know anything about it yet. My sense of it is that the WWB isn't quite as accurate as the others, but I'm such a crappy shot with this thing you'd never know it.
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Marshall
Member
Guess they're good when you get a good one and bad when you get a bad one. Just seems the odds aren't as favorable as I would like.
Besides, they're Fugly!
No offense to their owners.
Besides, they're Fugly!
No offense to their owners.
Wilson 17&26
Member
Santa Barbara (surplus 20yo Spanish police ammo) is as hot or hotter than Cor-Bon. It cost less than ten cents per round delivered to my door.Derby FALs said:
Derby FALs
Member In Memoriam
Wilson 17&26 said:
Is that .32 or .380?
Kingknives
Member
mick53 said:
Sorry Mike,
But your science is a little flawed there. All that your search is telling you is "limp wristing" and "Kel-Tec" are mentioned on the same page, nothing more. Many of those pages could say, "I've never had any problem limp wristing my Kel-Tec", or they could say at the top of the page, "I bought a Kel-Tec" and at the end of the page, "my wife was limp wristing my wang".
In other words, you have no idea what the pages mean, so your jumping to conclusions.
I fall into the "shoot what you like and what works for you", nothing more. I try not to get into the brand, caliber etc debates...
All's that is important is, "Front sight, presssss......."
Wilson 17&26
Member
87gr semi-jacked flat nose .380 sold in boxes of 25 for $2.29 or $80 per 1,000 by Southerd Ohio Gun online at http://www.southernohiogun.com/ammo2.htmlDerby FALs said:
marshall3
Member
Google search logic
I just did a Google search on "Glock" and "kaboom," and got the following: "Results 1 - 10 of about 15,300 for kaboom glock..." I guess that proves that Glocks go kaboom at lot! On the other hand, my "Keltec" and "kaboom" search gave: "Results 1 - 10 of about 1,410 for keltec kaboom..." So, that proves that Glock's go kaboom 15 times more often than Keltecs. Wow, ain't Google great!
I just did a Google search on "Glock" and "kaboom," and got the following: "Results 1 - 10 of about 15,300 for kaboom glock..." I guess that proves that Glocks go kaboom at lot!
On the other hand, my "Keltec" and "kaboom" search gave: "Results 1 - 10 of about 1,410 for keltec kaboom..." So, that proves that Glock's go kaboom 15 times more often than Keltecs. Wow, ain't Google great!I just got some sobering news. 
I did a Google search for "kel-tec" and "POS" = 1650...
For "Les Baer" and "POS" = 370,000
So, I'm sad to report that Google-science has proved that Les Baers are huge POS's compared to kel-tecs.
Sorry to break it to you all this way.
I did a Google search for "kel-tec" and "POS" = 1650...
For "Les Baer" and "POS" = 370,000
So, I'm sad to report that Google-science has proved that Les Baers are huge POS's compared to kel-tecs.
Sorry to break it to you all this way.
Why don't you guys that carry Kel-Tec .32s & .380s...
...just carry an AirSoft?
1. They are also made outta plastic.
2. They have about the same stopping power.
3. They COST LESS!
4. They are cheaper to shoot.
5. They look more intimidating to the attacker!
...just carry an AirSoft?
1. They are also made outta plastic.
2. They have about the same stopping power.
3. They COST LESS!
4. They are cheaper to shoot.
5. They look more intimidating to the attacker!
Old Dog
Member
Guess that means a trip down to Dave's Guns & Loans to unload my TRS ... I think he had a P-3AT down there the other day ... (Actually, I don't really own a TRS, though I've got a Wilson.)
Seriously though, the fervor in which the Kel-Tec guys have come out with is making me reconsider buying another Kel-Tec (I am a former owner of a P-11 and a P-40, both of which were certified as PsOS) ... maybe I'll give Kel-Tec another chance; I believe in redemption ... I do kinda like little-bitty semiautos ...
As I get older, I find I've gotten over my former prejudice against some of the less-expensive handguns. I now let my wife occasionally carry her Taurus PT-145 and have also discovered the Bersa .380 to be a worthy pistol as well (although I will remain forever a dedicated quality 1911 guy).
PS - what's airsoft?
Maxinquaye
Member
wow, this thread is way downhill
I vote for closing it.
Furthermore, next time I post good things about a pistol I'm pleased to own, I'll make sure it's a more expensive one, what with all this comparison to Glocks and Kimbers...
I vote for closing it.
Furthermore, next time I post good things about a pistol I'm pleased to own, I'll make sure it's a more expensive one, what with all this comparison to Glocks and Kimbers...
LightningJoe
Member
I'm a gun operator, not a gun technician, but it seems to me like the inside of a Millennium Pro looks a lot like the inside of a Kel-Tec. Did somebody get some ideas from somebody else? And if so, which came first, the Kel-Tec or the Millennium (Pro)?
I like the ergonomics of the Millennium Pro better than the P-11 and the .45 ACP caliber is also a plus.
I like the ergonomics of the Millennium Pro better than the P-11 and the .45 ACP caliber is also a plus.
Darth Ruger
Member
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Don't look at it as being "downhill". Look at it as the birth of a new science we can use when choosing a handgun: Google-science!
MGRII
Member
My P3AT has been flawless after over 500 rounds of Winchester Supreme 95gr SXT. I bought it for what it is, a reliable concealed carry gun for the way I dress in the summer. If someone would take the time to look inside one, they would see that it has a metal frame inside the plastic grip assy. I have had Sigs, Smiths, and Colts that have had to back to the factory for repair, just as others have, but now I would trust them just as much as I do my little KT. This is my opinion and that is all that matters to me.
MGRII
MGRII
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