Kel-Tec P-11: Junk or Diamond in the rough?

[Turkey Toes]

I saw a chrome Kel-Tec P-11 (123XXX) in a store the other day and I can't seem to get it out of my mind. The size and weight are very appealing and the trigger is not. I don't mind doing a little work on it to make it a little lighter. I would like to get a Kahr PM-9, but this is less than half the price and is within my current budget. Due to an expanding family, I can no longer make deposits into "my" account and probably will not be able to afford a PM9 for another year or two. Is the Kel-Tec a decent gun to get until I can afford what I really want? Thanks-TT

 

[MacPelto]

Having owned one of each, let me say, save your money and get what you really want from the get-go (this is a good rule in general). The Keltec is a decent gun that looks like a turd, the Kahr is better all the way around...even the E-series budget models.

 

[Ebbtide]

MackPelto is right, but feel free to get the kel-tec and when your ready for the kahr, sell it to make up the difference. Wanting a gun, and owning one are two different things (I have wanted many guns only to find out that after owning it for a while it was not what I was looking for).

The p-11 is a fine gun. Do a search over at www.thefiringline.com and you can read all about the pros and cons.

Many people love them, some hate them. For $200.00 how can you go wrong?

Hope this helps,

ehenz

PS. there are fixes available for the trigger. Blackhawk (THR member) I believe, has some great info on these mods.

 

[yzguy]

I love my P-11, but if in the back of your mind you really want something else, I'm not sure that I would recommend it.... but you could always get it for now and sell it later if you still like the Kahr better.

And the trigger can be fixed at home:
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/triggermods.htm

 

[Chan Bates]

KT for CCW

The P-11 fills a specific nitch: concealed carry. If that is what you want it for, and the Kahr is the other option, the KT is a viable option.

The KT is well-priced, but not cheaply made. The vast majority are reliable and suit their intended purpose well. How a self defense gun looks has nothing to do with it's utility, but how it is shaped does.

The squared slides of many of today's pistols, including the Kahrs and Glocks, make them somewhat harder to conceal than the KT with its sloped rear, narrower profile, more rounded slide. The high capacity with lighter weight is also a plus, as well as the basic dimensions.

Available accesories help you tune KT's up to fit your needs even better. There is great factorty support if needed, and lots and lots of information available about KT's on different forums.

I can afford almost any gun I want, but I carry a KT in Thunderwear because it is the best for light weight, full capacity, compact and easily concealable, reliable, safe, affordable and customizable self protection, for me.

The Kahrs and Glocks may be even more reliable, and perhaps initially easier to shoot, but I don't think they carry as well, and I don't trust myself with the Glock triggers the way I carry. DAO is all I will consider for deep concealment.

If this gun is for self defense/concealed carry, then this is a very important personal decision for you. Study it out carefully. Try to shoot the guns you are interested in before you buy one, and talk to as many individuals as you can find who really use these tools for the same purposes you will.

CB3

 

[firestar]

I have never owned a P-11 but I have a P-32 and once ownd a Kahr E-9.

The Kahr is a top notch gun with lots of quality built in. The Kel-Tec is not so well made but it works. There is really no pride of ownership with a Kel-Tec but they are not junk.

My Kel-Tec P-32 is really growing on me. I bought it just for a carry anywhere gun (which it is) but after the first trip back to the factory to fix a FTE problem, it has been flawless. I like it so much that I am going to get the P-3AT .380 cal when they come out. Kel-Tec's guns are very well designed, which is their greatest selling point.

The Kel-Tecs P-11s are decent for the money but I wouldn't buy one when the Kahr P9 is out there. The only reason I bought the Kel-Tec P-32 is because there is no other gun on the market in .32 that is anywhere near as light and flat. Flat is a good thing when you are carrying concealed, almost as important as light.

 

[Blackhawk]

It's a diamond.

Chan Bates said all that needs to be said about P-11s.

The trigger mod mentioned is here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=180

Lightening and shortening the trigger makes a P-11 into a great gun, but it changes the original design. If you're going to keep your P-11, go for it, but if you might trade it off, I wouldn't recommend it. The factory P-11 trigger is long and heavy, but it's typical or better than many other DAO triggers. The trigger mod is definitely an "enthusiast" mod way beyond the famous "Fluff & Buff" Kel Tec owners are noted for.

Good luck!

 

[Pico]

Junk or Diamond?

I say neither one. Shoot a KT and judge for yourself before condemning it based only on what you read. It doesn't recoil badly and the trigger is not nearly as bad as people claim either. If they are used to short, single action triggers it is longer and heavier but not unusable at all. I looked down on the P-11 from all of the forum jabber and I finally decided to try one for the heck of it... only $230 at risk. Boy was I surprised. This is a clever little pistol. George Kellgren may be as innovative in his realm as Sam Colt, Gaston Glock, or John Browning.

Compared to my lightweight snub nose .38 it is a pleasure to shoot, more accurate, and holds 2X more rounds. I haven't had a single failure with the pistol with a wide variety of ammo through it so far.

It is not a target pistol but in a tight situation pulling it out and placing 10+1 rounds in an attacker will definitely change the outcome which is what the thing is designed for. It was a bonus to me that it is also fun to shoot.

Pico

 

[michiganfan]

I have six autos. Including an HK. Two of my guns have never had a jam. A Glock 17 and my P11. I carry the P11 on a daily basis because it is so easy to conceal.

 

[Turkey Toes]

Thanks!!

Thanks for all of your input. I think I'm going to get it as much for a toy as anything else. Worst case scenerio is that I hate and want to get rid of it in a year or two. If that happens, I can swap it for the Kahr and my wife will never be able to tell the difference. I already have a Kimber Ultra Carry and a Mak that I use for CCW. I was looking for something lighter and smaller than both and more potent than the Mak. Do you have a list of spare parts that I should have on-hand in case I want to do a little tinkering or for replacements of the more frequently broken/lost ones? (A second complete "parts" gun is not an option at this point) Thanks again for all of your help. TT

 

[MacPelto]

Parts that I would advise -

Trigger shoe
Belt clip
Spare mags
New sights (first priority!)
maybe some finger extensions for the mags

that's it! These will make it roll as well as it ever will...

 

[yzguy]

take a look at my mods, think about which ones you might want to do (may want to wait until after you fire it a few times to decide) and get all the parts you think you may modify at once. Most of them are cheap, and this way you have spares if you mess up, and worst case you go back to stock. Also I would reccomend you getting them all at once from KT as they have a flate shipping rate $4.?? for any parts order.

http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/index.htm

also look around at
http://www.ktog.org/