Kel-tec vs Skyy in 9mm

[Mooseman]

My local gunshop carries both the Kel-tec and Skyy pistols in 9mm. The Skyy is $10 cheaper and comes with a second mag and an optional grip extension. Has anyone here been able to compare the two? The Skyy seems like a better deal but Kel-tec is better known.

 

[varoadking]

I had a Skyy...the firing pin broke - twice...

I sold the POS shortly thereafter. It wasn't much fun to shoot even when it did work...

The new Kel-Tec 9mm has been full of problems as well, but I'd recommend you try the PF-9 if these are your only 2 options. Frankly - I'd buy a S&W J-frame before I bought either of them.

If you have the jack - look at a Kahr...

 

[MCgunner]

The new Kel-Tec 9mm has been full of problems as well, but I'd recommend you try the PF-9 if these are your only 2 options. Frankly - I'd buy a S&W J-frame before I bought either of them.

I've carried a P11 Kel Tec for 11 years now, pocket carry it. It's got well over 10K rounds through it and never bobbles. Even if the Skyy were problem free, too, I don't need no stinkin' safety on a DAO gun. The P11, is accurate (3.5" 25 yard groups), 100 percent reliable, and I'm in a zen thing with it. It hits where I look. It also, with the 12 round mags, can carry 13 rounds, a lot of fire power for a 14 ounce pocket gun. Most gripes about the P11 have to do with the long 8.5 lb DA trigger (mine's the older 10 lb trigger). If you're a good DA shooter, that won't matter. You might wanna pick the gun up and dry fire it, though, before you decide, if the gun is a P11.

From what I understand, the PF9 hasn't been "full of problems", but it's new and has had a couple of problems. I won't buy one for a year or two to let 'em get the bugs out like they did with the P3AT. Go to http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi#10 for the skinny on the new PF9. I can tell ya, if the P11 had any problems, it don't anymore. Mine is 11 years old, so it was relatively early production. And, Kel Tec has a great customer service department and a lifetime warranty.

 

[JDGray]

My P11, was 100% reliable in 500+ rds, but a little big for pocket carrie. I now have a P32, that I will be breaking in today.

 

[MCgunner]

Here's a good post from KTOG of the problems with early production PF9s and why I'm going to wait a while to buy one. Seems the very early ones did have some number of problems, after the first retool it had a few. They'll be a good gun once they're sorted out. Well, they're probably sorted out by now, but I'm not that big in a hurry considering I have a danged good P11 and don't really need a new pocket 9 anyway. I can recommend the P11 now, if your're okay with the DA trigger. But, the PF9, I'd wait a while.

SOME PF9 HISTORY:

A MODELS:

The first 100 PF9s were mostly bought by the factory employees and distributors. George Kelgren himself took the first 19 off the assembly line.

The little gun had a slew of problems though:

1. They tried to use the same screw for the sight as for the extractor. But when the screw was tightened during production this caused it to intrude into the hammer arc which caused:
2. HAMMER PEENING from hitting the screw, which caused:
3. HAMMER SLIDE SCORING, which caused additional wear to the hammer which then caused more hammer slide scoring etc. which caused
4. A PLETHORA OF FINE BRASS DUST from the cartridges being shaved by the rough hammer slide.
5. The firing pin channel in the slide was too large and allowed the FP to wobble around and strike the primer crookedly. This resulted in:
6. Light primer strikes and fail to fires. The large hole also quickly attracted brass shavings from the:
7. SLIDE LOCK TAB TOO LARGE that rubbed against the bullet noses and piled up shavings. This also caused:
8. FTS, a weird kind of FTFeed that locked open the breech with the cartridge nose trapped under the Slide stop tab.
9. It also had problems with the first 3 rounds in the magazine tending to nose dive into the feed ramp.
10. The magazine follower is a soft material and quickly developed a gouge caused by the last round flipping end for end and smacking its rim into the top of the follower.
11. The slide was not properly hardended. This caused slide bending which gradually caused:
12 Barrel and breech peening and:
13. Light strikes from slide not closing into battery.
14. Many slides also cracked at the slide stop notch.

All who returned their dull blued A models received back brand new Parkerized B models with their old serial number stamped thereon.

The original first owners, the PIONEERS who bought the early A and B models are listed HERE:

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=newpistol;action=display ;num=1162332400;start=0#0

Production was halted 10/06 while KT sorted out the slide hardening problems. When production resumed at about SN 100, The brightly blued C model was born. This gun may still have some problems:
1. FTLoads due to cartridges nose diving into feed ramps
2. Ejectors that break after 200-700 rounds.
3. Assembly pins that lose their heads unexpectedly.
4. The slide lock tab has been changed several times and may be so sharp now, that it cuts a hole into the mag follower.
5. Discolored slides where super-hardened areas did not blue well.

IMO, production of C models was halted 01/07 slightly past SN 1000 or R0A00.

The list of known KTOG C models is HERE:

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=newpistol;action=display ;num=1166234817;start=0

If YOU own a PF9 and are NOT on either the A, B, C, or later list, Please post your SN, date purchased, location and price before tax here:

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=newpistol;action=display ;num=1166234817;start=105#114

so I can add you to the list.

The latest models, (Ds) that will start somewhere after SN R0A00 (Probably mid March 07) will have a new, longer and shallower feed ramp on the barrel. They may also have a new or altered magazine and a different slide lock tab system more akin to the P11.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I inspected a Skyy at the shop the other day. I currently carry a p-11. The Skyy appeared to have nicer machining but it was also thicker in the frame. Then trigger pull was much lighter but I have read they may have problems with light primer strikes. I decided to stay with my p-11. Its not pretty, but it has been very, very reliable. It is light, easy to carry and decently accurate. I am going to replace it with a S&W M&P compact soon but I'm sure it will still see carry and I trust it just fine. The trigger pull does take soem getting used to but like the earlier posters said it is manageable and it does get smoother and lighter with time.

 

[Chad]

I tried to make the Skyy CPX-1 work for me.
The look and feel is good, accuracy is good, a lifetime warranty and excellent customer service...all made it attractive.

A cracked frame got me a replacement gun.
Then the firing pin broke...they sent a stronger one.
Then the take-down pin sheared off...they sent another one...but the hole has worn out-of-round.

If they get their material problems worked out it will be a nice little gun, but mine is going to the next show for trading.

 

[tegemu]

I bought a SKYY and at first loved it, but then the hammer broke twice and the, totally unnecessary, safety engages on recoil about every third shot. It rubs on my hand. Sorry I bought it and would sell it but don't want to dump such an abortion on someone.

 

[BADUNAME13]

I ALWAYS wait a year with WHATEVER new gun so OTHERS can be the 'test cases' That said, I do not know this Skyy, and would NOT go Kahr.

J frame, P11, or wait.

 

[bowserb]

Skyy no...no...no

Cracked frame, broken firing pin, firing pin retaining screw, warped frame rails. So many problems, so little time. I believe this gun has a design flaw or two. The aluminum frame rail gets hot and cracks. The factory fix just cuts away the cracked part. Problem then is that aluminum is not strong enough without the full-length rail, and it warps then jams. The trigger pull is light--probably from too-weak spring, so you tend to get failures to fire.

I know the Kel-Tec has a much better reputation than Skyy, but for me, I think the compact gun would have to be a Glock 26. I carry a Springfield XD-9 Subcompact, because I like the grip safety (the XD is also a striker-fired gun like the Glock), but the XD is heavy and chunky compared to the Glock.

Good luck to you with whatever you choose, but the most consecutive shots I got from the Skyy without some kind of malfunction was 9. The most I've got from my XD-9 SC and Glock 19 is...all of 'em. Hundreds with never a failure of any kind. Hundred twenty-five dollars or so more, but what's a good price for a gun that doesn't work?

 

[TOFR]

I Own A Skyy And Keltec... Read The Differences.

Yesterday I Just Purchased A Slightly Used Skyy Cpx-1 And Keltec P-11. I Completely Disassembled Them Both, And There Is No Doubt They Either Have The Same Designer, Or One Copied The Other... It Doesn't Really Matter Who Copied Who, But What Really Matters Is Who Executed The Design Better. (which Gun Is Better). The Skyy Has A Manual Safety, Finger Groves To Allow For A Better Grip, And A Much Lighter Smoother Trigger Pull. They Both Use S&w Magazines, Only The Skyy Mag Catch Opening (on The Magazine) Needs To Be Opened Up A Little. (nothing That Can't Be Fixed With 10 Minutes And A Dremel). My Sky Is Fed By Modified Keltec And S&w Magazines! The Keltec Has A Pretty Heavy Trigger Pull, Which I Think Is There Way Of Making It Safer Against Accidental Discharge (think Of Glock With The New York Trigger). The Skyy Has A Safety, So They Lightened The Trigger Pull. The Skyy Also Has A Plastic Extension On The Mag Release, Which Makes It Much Easier To Drop The Slide. The Skyy Also Has A Stainless Slide And Barrel, Where The Keltec Has Both Made From Carbon Steel. Keltec Has More Accessories, And A Larger Following. I Have Been Told That If You Have Larger Hands The Recoil May Cause The Skyy Safety To Bump Your Finger, And Turn It To Safe. I Have Also Read That You Can File The Plastic Safety To Make It Smaller To Solve The Problem. The Skyy Has Much Less Machine Marks Than The Keltec. And The Both Have A Very Good Lifetime Warranty. Kel Tec Says You Can Can Use +p Ammo But Just A Little, Skyy Doesn't Want You Using +p Ammo At All. The Internal Metal Trigger/ Hammer Assembly On Both Guns Almost Look Identical! The Keltec Has 3 Cross Pins From The Trigger Saay To The Grip Frame, Where The Skyy Only Has 2. The Skyy Trigger Frame Has The Third Hole, But It Is Not Driled Through The Plastic Grip Frame. If You Put Both Trigger Housings Next To Each Other The Pin Holes Match Up Perfectly Between Both Guns. I Might Look To See If I Can Drill The Third Hole On My Skyy, And Use The Keltec Belt Clip On It! (i Would Not Suggest Doing This On Your Skyy Just Yet As I Need To Investigate It A Little More First!) From Looking Over Both Guns And Not Shooting Either One Yet, I Seem To Like The Sky Better. The Price Is A Little Cheaper, It Comes With 2 Mags, Has A Safety, And Is Made Of Stainless. Tonight I Will Shoot Both Guns And Report How They Both Function In The Future!

 

[sm]

No

to Skyy in 9mm

 

[12Bravo20]

From what I have been told, the owner of Skyy used to work/was one of the founders of Kel-Tec. Supposedly he had a falling out with the others because he wanted to add a manual safety to the pistols. I don't know how true this is but it does make sense since the two pistols are a lot alike. I had a dealer tell me this.

 

[alamo]

Yesterday I Just Purchased A Slightly Used Skyy Cpx-1 And Keltec P-11. I Completely Disassembled Them Both, And There Is No Doubt They Either Have The Same Designer, Or One Copied The Other... It Doesn't Really Matter Who Copied Who, But What Really Matters Is Who Executed The Design Better. (which Gun Is Better). The Skyy Has A Manual Safety, Finger Groves To Allow For A Better Grip, And A Much Lighter Smoother Trigger Pull. They Both Use S&w Magazines, Only The Skyy Mag Catch Opening (on The Magazine) Needs To Be Opened Up A Little. (nothing That Can't Be Fixed With 10 Minutes And A Dremel). My Sky Is Fed By Modified Keltec And S&w Magazines! The Keltec Has A Pretty Heavy Trigger Pull, Which I Think Is There Way Of Making It Safer Against Accidental Discharge (think Of Glock With The New York Trigger). The Skyy Has A Safety, So They Lightened The Trigger Pull. The Skyy Also Has A Plastic Extension On The Mag Release, Which Makes It Much Easier To Drop The Slide. The Skyy Also Has A Stainless Slide And Barrel, Where The Keltec Has Both Made From Carbon Steel. Keltec Has More Accessories, And A Larger Following. I Have Been Told That If You Have Larger Hands The Recoil May Cause The Skyy Safety To Bump Your Finger, And Turn It To Safe. I Have Also Read That You Can File The Plastic Safety To Make It Smaller To Solve The Problem. The Skyy Has Much Less Machine Marks Than The Keltec. And The Both Have A Very Good Lifetime Warranty. Kel Tec Says You Can Can Use +p Ammo But Just A Little, Skyy Doesn't Want You Using +p Ammo At All. The Internal Metal Trigger/ Hammer Assembly On Both Guns Almost Look Identical! The Keltec Has 3 Cross Pins From The Trigger Saay To The Grip Frame, Where The Skyy Only Has 2. The Skyy Trigger Frame Has The Third Hole, But It Is Not Driled Through The Plastic Grip Frame. If You Put Both Trigger Housings Next To Each Other The Pin Holes Match Up Perfectly Between Both Guns. I Might Look To See If I Can Drill The Third Hole On My Skyy, And Use The Keltec Belt Clip On It! (i Would Not Suggest Doing This On Your Skyy Just Yet As I Need To Investigate It A Little More First!) From Looking Over Both Guns And Not Shooting Either One Yet, I Seem To Like The Sky Better. The Price Is A Little Cheaper, It Comes With 2 Mags, Has A Safety, And Is Made Of Stainless. Tonight I Will Shoot Both Guns And Report How They Both Function In The Future!

Just a suggestion - if you want people to actually read the posting you took the time to type, use PARAGRAPHS and do NOT capitalize every word. Only capitalize the first word of a sentence, names, places, etc. and maybe something you want to EMPHASIZE.

 

[skinewmexico]

A local dealer gave us a skyy to use as the BUG gun in an IDPA stage. It worked for about 3 guys in the first group. One guy in our group tried it, it didn't cycle. Dealer tried cleaning, disassembling, etc. Everyone ended up using my XD sub instead. I've never had any trouble with my Kel-tec P3AT.

 

[kingpin008]

Just a suggestion - if you want people to actually read the posting you took the time to type, use PARAGRAPHS and do NOT capitalize every word. Only capitalize the first word of a sentence, names, places, etc. and maybe something you want to EMPHASIZE.

Agreed. It looks like you've got a lot to add, but it was hard for me to read your comment and figure out what you were saying because of the excessive punctuation. We don't say it to be mean, just tryin' to help.

Oh, and welcome to THR!


(Sorry I don't have much of substance to add to the thread. I will say that from everything I've HEARD (no personal experience) Skyy pistols are on the junky side. I'd go with the Kel-Tec.

 

[otomik]

Yesterday I Just Purchased A Slightly Used Skyy Cpx-1 And Keltec P-11. I Completely Disassembled Them Both, And There Is No Doubt They Either Have The Same Designer, Or One Copied The Other... It Doesn't Really Matter Who Copied Who, But What Really Matters Is Who Executed The Design Better. (which Gun Is Better). The Skyy Has A Manual Safety, Finger Groves To Allow For A Better Grip, And A Much Lighter Smoother Trigger Pull. They Both Use S&w Magazines, Only The Skyy Mag Catch Opening (on The Magazine) Needs To Be Opened Up A Little. (nothing That Can't Be Fixed With 10 Minutes And A Dremel). My Sky Is Fed By Modified Keltec And S&w Magazines! The Keltec Has A Pretty Heavy Trigger Pull, Which I Think Is There Way Of Making It Safer Against Accidental Discharge (think Of Glock With The New York Trigger). The Skyy Has A Safety, So They Lightened The Trigger Pull. The Skyy Also Has A Plastic Extension On The Mag Release, Which Makes It Much Easier To Drop The Slide. The Skyy Also Has A Stainless Slide And Barrel, Where The Keltec Has Both Made From Carbon Steel. Keltec Has More Accessories, And A Larger Following. I Have Been Told That If You Have Larger Hands The Recoil May Cause The Skyy Safety To Bump Your Finger, And Turn It To Safe. I Have Also Read That You Can File The Plastic Safety To Make It Smaller To Solve The Problem. The Skyy Has Much Less Machine Marks Than The Keltec. And The Both Have A Very Good Lifetime Warranty. Kel Tec Says You Can Can Use +p Ammo But Just A Little, Skyy Doesn't Want You Using +p Ammo At All. The Internal Metal Trigger/ Hammer Assembly On Both Guns Almost Look Identical! The Keltec Has 3 Cross Pins From The Trigger Saay To The Grip Frame, Where The Skyy Only Has 2. The Skyy Trigger Frame Has The Third Hole, But It Is Not Driled Through The Plastic Grip Frame. If You Put Both Trigger Housings Next To Each Other The Pin Holes Match Up Perfectly Between Both Guns. I Might Look To See If I Can Drill The Third Hole On My Skyy, And Use The Keltec Belt Clip On It! (i Would Not Suggest Doing This On Your Skyy Just Yet As I Need To Investigate It A Little More First!) From Looking Over Both Guns And Not Shooting Either One Yet, I Seem To Like The Sky Better. The Price Is A Little Cheaper, It Comes With 2 Mags, Has A Safety, And Is Made Of Stainless. Tonight I Will Shoot Both Guns And Report How They Both Function In The Future!

are you TOFR a employee of SKYY Gun? A company whose vice president has been caught in the past posting on message boards (KTOG) posing as a satisfied owner while ripping on Kel-Tec. BTW when asked the VP denied being an employee until forced to admit the fact. Are you with your suspicious 1 post to your name and lack of posting etiquette a SKYY employee?

The reprehensible fraudulent behavior of SKYY gun executives prevents me from considering supporting them in any way. Perhaps this TOFR intends to present himself as an amateur favorably disposed toward the SKYY and then will perform some kind of ridiculous range report.

 

[Hawk]

A co-worker gave up on trying to get his Skyy to run. It made a couple trips back to the factory without apparent result.

 

[jwxspoon]

I've got 4 kel-Tecs, P3AT, PF9, P11, Sub2K. Not complaints whatsoever with them. The pistols are extremely light and are not the most fun to shoot, but shoot they do whenever I want them to. I carry either the PF9 or P3AT pretty much all the time.

jw

 

[MICHAEL T]

I keep my Kel Tecs No Skyy in my house. Don't want a KT copy with a safety .
Buy the Kel Tec. I don't leave home with out one in the pocket. No matter what else Iam packing.

 

[TOFR]

I Own A Skyy And Keltec... here are my experiences

Sorry for using caps in my previous post. I work for a car dealership, and the program we use (Reynolds&Reynolds) only works in caps, so everyone at work tends to leave caps lock on. I think the forum software converted the rest of each word to lower case. NO I don't work for Skyy, I live in Ohio Not Florida! I own 2 other kel-tec guns: a sub 2000 (glock 17 mag), and a 1st generation p32. I just came back from vacation, and finally have time to report about my experience at the range...

I was outside, it was dark, and it was raining very heavily with thunder, so I didn't even set out any targets, I just turned on the range lights, and shot from under the shed. No accuracy tests just function and reliability testing! I used Winchester value pack (100 round white box) bought from Wal Mart for under $16.00

The kel-tec had no miss fires, no failures to feed, and no ejection problems, abosutly no problems at all! The kel-tec I bought was in the 600 serial number range, it was early in the production of the model, but by looking at the lack of wear marks on the internals, it had little use. I shot around 75 rounds through this gun without any problems. I tried loose wrist, and canted to both the left and right and it worked perfectly.

The Skyy I was a bit disappointed with. The trigger was light, but very very long. I had a couple of rounds not go off after the first hammer strike, and I had pull the trigger again. That happened about 5 times. Three times the spent shell extracted, but the live round didn’t feed properly. The round was easily cleared by locking the slide back, partially dropping the magazine, and turning the gun upside down, gravity took care of the rest. I had one round that chambered, but the extractor didn't lock on the rim. This kept the slide from closing all the way. I tried pulling the slide back and releasing it several times, but it didn't work. The extractor wouldn't go past the rim with the bullet in the chamber. Again I had to partially drop the mag, lock the slide back and shake the round loose.

I am over 6 feet tall and have large hands I did find after shooting about 40 rounds my hand did bump the right side safety lever, and accidently turn it on(this happened about 3 times). This gun (Skyy) was in the 2600 serial number range, and the internals looked like it may have only had a couple of mags of ammo through it. I fired about 140 rounds through this gun. One thing I did notice was the front frame rails seemed to be pushed together (I think) by the slide slamming back. this caused the inside of the metal trigger housing (receiver) to clamp on the to the sides of the barrel lug! This made it a little difficult to take the gun apart. I corrected this by removing the barrel from the slide, placing the lug where it sits in the trigger housing and moving it left and right to open up the area a little. I would have preferred to use the proper tools, but I didn't have any with me (make due with what you got). Recoil was about the same on both guns, but the Skyy did hurt the web between my thumb and index finger more than the kel-tec.

I was really hoping the skyy would be better than the kel-tec, but it didn't turn out that way... I think the Skyy has some better ideas, but the gun just isn't as refined as the kel-tec.

I really hope that those of you that bashed my first write up realize that I don't work for any gun companies, and I am just writing about my personal experience with various firearms so hopefully others will be more knowledgeable when making a purchase and avoid making mistakes. Gun collecting, building and modification is my hobby!

Other firearms that I have a lot of experience with are ar-15 in: .223, 9mm, and 7.62x39 (ar-47). I also have a LOT of experience in Glock modifications...

 

[Alan Fud]

+1 to what varoadking said ...

I had a Skyy...the firing pin broke - twice...

I sold the POS shortly thereafter. It wasn't much fun to shoot even when it did work...

The new Kel-Tec 9mm has been full of problems as well, but I'd recommend you try the PF-9 if these are your only 2 options. Frankly - I'd buy a S&W J-frame before I bought either of them.

... if you're going to pick between a Skyy and a Kel-Tec, get a J-frame.

 

[M2 Carbine]

My Skyy crashed at 180 rounds.
I sent it to Skyy.
I haven't shot it since I got it back. The frame is so badly worn IMO it's unsafe to fire.

The Skyy probably isn't the worst piece of junk I've owned but it's close.

 

[MachIVshooter]

No experience with the Skyy. My PF-9 had a few light strikes ont he first range trip. It was -2* farenheit that day, and the firing pin channel was full of lubricant that I suspect becasme very viscous in the freezing cold temperatures. Once thoroughly cleaned, the gun has been flawless through several hundred rounds with one caveat: I tried to run some 147 grain +p+ through it and, while they fired and extracted fine, I had FTF's on subsequent rounds. The reason? The rounds were ejecting so violently that brass was being stripped from the primer by the firing pin and becoming lodged in the firing pin hole. Factory +P loads and my 115 gr. +P handloads have run fine.

 

[denfoote]

No experience with the Skyy. My PF-9 had a few light strikes ont he first range trip. It was -2* farenheit that day, and the firing pin channel was full of lubricant that I suspect becasme very viscous in the freezing cold temperatures. Once thoroughly cleaned, the gun has been flawless through several hundred rounds with one caveat: I tried to run some 147 grain +p+ through it and, while they fired and extracted fine, I had FTF's on subsequent rounds. The reason? The rounds were ejecting so violently that brass was being stripped from the primer by the firing pin and becoming lodged in the firing pin hole. Factory +P loads and my 115 gr. +P handloads have run fine.

If I remember right, KT, recommends standard pressure with limited use of +P. Now while they are silent on the subject of +P+ rounds, I woud imagine that such are verbotten!!!