KELTEC SU-16 rifles

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1stmarine

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For those in Communist States here there is some info about a sweet rifle that it complies with the non-sense AWB regulations.

This is what I can tell you about these rifles:
- It takes any AR magazine and feeds well from any model. Better than the ARs themselves.
- They are dissembled w/o any tools in seconds. Even easier than an AK and can hold a decent scope or red dot.
- Easy to clean but even folks that do not clean their rifles have been firing since they bought them with over 3000 rounds still chugging like day one. Something you heard of some AKs but not ARs and the reason is very simple. A great simple piston system. The piston works 2 ways, one as a piston and at the same time works as a support for the bolt carrier (all one piece) which is light but very strong.
-The entire polymer frame is very strong and light. Stronger than any aluminum and probably will never brittle even if tossed out the window (I will not try though, LOL!!)
- At first people think they are light and flimsy (same reaction when the M16 came out in the 60's) but when you put 10 rounds on it you realize how strong and accurate they are.
- They are incredibly reliable like an AK and accurate like an AR.
- I have my first one with over 4000 rounds with 2 failures to feed and it was the bad brass!!!!. If you know rifles this is amazing to me. Just like an AK in terms of reliability but better since the NATO/.223 round is more suited in general.
- It is a 5.56 spec chamber. I shoots both Military 5.56 and .223 w.o any problems. Even the surplus and cheap russian for plinkin cycles w/o any problems.
- Low recoil and a great rifle grip.
- The trigger is not great but it is not too bad neither. It is what you would expect in a bush rifle like a MINI-14 or an infantry rifle.
- It fills some of the gaps of the Mini-14 pretty well. This is why Ruger are scratching their heads and going why we didn't come up with this.
They are eating their market share in the bush rifle market. I can see this rifle in the back of many pick-up trucks, tossed around, dusty, dirty and always working fine when needed.
- The rifle empty is very very light so the weight you put it where it is meaningful: several mags, scope, etc...
- The stock can hold two 10rounds mags or one 30 rounder for spear.
- You can fold the stock to a backpack size with just removing a pin. I have a cotter pin from the hardware store so I can fold it in 2 seconds. Models A, B and CA models will not fire when folded folded (to be legal). Only the model C fires folded but then the stock cannot hold anything.
- The hand-guard tilts and splits transforming into a bipod. Not a great bipod but functional.
- The CA model will take a muzzle brake and since there is no pistol grip the brake doesn't have to be pinned in NY state. Other communist states might be the same.

When you get used to it becomes sort of the new good loyal friend. I am getting 1MOA and better with some loads.

For me it is like the new GLOCK of the .223 rifles.

Cheers.
E.
 
HELLO ALL,Thanks to 1STMarine

Thanks for a Very thrugh, informaive report on the rifle! I have not had the chance to fine one of these but I love the concept and for many applications it seems a good fit? I like that it can and will use Ar-15/M-16 mags as they are cheap and many are avainlable? I love that it's in 223, as I'm not the Biggest fan of the round, but gain, it's fairly cheap and affordable! Not hard to carry a decent amount of ammunition and not be loaded down?

The Piston design is a great pick as well and I prefer it to the Gas action of a standard M-16 or AR-15! s far as the Construction, I do have to admit that parts of the materials and design of the parts worries me? I'm glad that you give it a clean bill of health and as I have only picked one up at a show to examine it, I can't say I know a lot of the design or construction durablity? I love the idea that it will fold up and fit in a Bag or Back and like the other Kel-Teck Designs in 9MM and other Pistol calibers, it is a great item to have in my gear and won't stick out or be as obvious as an standard AR or AK would be?

Thanks for a Great report and I will give it a closer look and a more definate buy in the near future! Thats appreciated!

RON
 
I'd mostly concur with the above, however, nothing is perfect, and here are my devil`s advocate points:

The factory sling mounts are...how to put it delicately....borderline worthless. (And also NOT included with your rifle!) I have absolutely zero doubts that should a situation become "Energetic" they will happily tear out of the rifle, assuming you are using the sling while shooting. They were also a pain to install and the locations for possible mounting that are available left me distinctly underwhelmed.

Lack of real co-witnessing sight options for those who care. Due to the fact no one offers a SU-specific railed forend with a top rail, your options are pretty much limited to throwing a POF predator rail on (Requires rifle modification) or monkeying an ARMS SIR onto it if you want a cowitnessing setup. Stock sights coupled with an aimpoint micro on the lowest Larue and lowest ARMS mounts I could find would not cowitness. Oh, and if you`re the type to run a magnifier behind a dot, you may wish to instead choose a different rifle. Doing any of the above will obliterate your cheekweld without a riser, and the light weight starts ratcheting up and up and up.

Factory "Compact forend" with the under rail for lights or VFGs has about 6 pieces to manage during installation,and does NOT feel solid by any stretch of the imagination (Something which, strangely, the stock bipod forend doesn't have any problem with. Feels quite solid when folded up.) and to boot, doesn`t give you much rail to work with at all. Or handguard.

There is a small square cut in the left side of the upper reciever, which exposes your bolts cam pin to the environment. I really hope I never find out what happens when mud and debris get in there.

There is no bolt release like the AR15. It locks back on empty, but the only workable way to release the bolt is to work the charging handle. On the upside however, it only requires moving the firing hand up slightly and my fingers can work the bolt handle back enough to release it without problem. I miss my old AR-15s BAD lever.

PMAGs may, or may not drop free. Mag wells are slightly tighter than AR15s in my experience, and are not beveled. Magazine release is small, and easily confused with one of the support screws placed conveniently above and below the mag release button for optimal levels of curse-creating frustration when you are attempting to do things in a hurry or under adverse environmental conditions such as nightfall.

After even one magazine of rapid fire, those who have tried all three, will notice its a heck of a lot warmer than an AK or AR. Don't worry, it gets worse later in the day.

1:9 twist barrel is fine, accurate, but may or may not put you out of the game for heavyweight defense ammo, depending on your individual rifle and its quirks. I'd much rather have 1:7.

The SU-16 is an extremely light, accurate, and at least in my experience reliable rifle, it's compact, and the ability to use AR and M16 ammo and mags is a giant plus. That said:

I realize I am comparing it to, in my case, a Colt 6940. I realize that it's over twice the price point of the SU-16, and it's not strictly apples to apples...however, I am certainly NOT the only one comparing it to ARs and AKs. See the starting post in this thread for example. The SU is a great backpacking weapon. It's a great stow-and-go vehicle gun. It's a great rifle for people who have problems with their weapon weight, particularly children, and adults who are on the smaller side....

It is NOT an AR or AK. If you WANT something to fill the role of an AR or AK, get an AR or AK. There are a number of little niceties with either one that, even when PC-ified for the brainless states, are going to put you ahead of the curve should you be after a tool more for shooting than for carrying and occasionally shooting. Again, it's certainly not that the SU *Can't* do it....its just that the major advantages to it that would make one go for it over AR/AKs are on the carrying side of the things.
 
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I won't agree or disagree with any of the statements made here, but just so that people reading this thread are clear, and don't take the rifle to be more than it is meant to be, I do want to point out that even Keltec only rates the usable life of the firearm to be 6000 rounds or more.

The information that I've come across regarding this rifle would indicate that it is meant to be a utility type of firearm for use occasionally. It is not designed, nor intended to be a plinker or weekend shooter. Frankly, I've never bought one because I feel that the lower threshold of 6000 rounds would be under heavy use and that would certainly apply to me. I could put that many rounds through it in three months at the most.

If you want a plinker, a CMMG bargain bin rifle for $500 would be a better choice.
 
Don't try to make a donkey bark.

Thanks guys. I just helped a fellow citizen decide in one of these and I figured why not post the messages I sent so everyone can enjoy.

Exactly tony Angel. This is a bush/fun rifle but can do much more with some great features through true innovation. Mine I am getting same groups as some ARs. Not the national match of course but not bad for the little rifle.
I own 2 and I am going for my 3rd soon. Just for fun. I have many ARs and AKs, M1As and there will be always room in the safe for one of this.
The sling can be resolved very easily with 2 dollars in the local hardware store. Buy a tapered retainer pin with the hardware store and put a small hook/connector. It actually kills 2 birds in one shot. you can have the connector on the left and also use it to quickly remove and pull the pin out to fold and w/o any alteration to the gun.
I don't want rails in this one. I have an ice picatiny with a compact scope and the factory sites and thats it.
Keltec might warranty this for so many rounds but there is people out there with 9K rounds and still chugging. Keltec will send you a barrel or whatever you need. Not a bad idea to have a spear bolt, barrel, extractor whatever system anyway.

I am a veteran navy infantry marksman and I know rifles. This is a good one.

Cheers,
E.
 
and I do not own an AR, AK business or work for Keltec like some out there.

so my only interest is to help other fellow citizen rifleman and enthusiasts out there.
 
I have shot hundreds of thousands of rounds in my life both in the service and civilian this rifle is not for sustained suppressive fire but plenty capable for plinkin, defense and whatever you want around the range or the farm.

The fact that it is very reliable puts the rifle at the front of the safe. Not an AK of course, Not an AR of course, but a pretty nifty rifle still underestimated by some.

Sling situation.... Replace the pin for a tapered one and hook the sling there and can pull to remove and fold.

The rail... it is plenty for a scope. I suggest compact. I have a neoprene cheek rest that you can use to hold the mags and to raise the cheek a bit if needed.

More rails... I like the stock feature. it is unique. If I want a light I would just use a clamp type just above past the port. I don't have it in mine.

No bolt release. OK for me and most.

Small square cut? it is about 1/8 of an inch. Most rifles have way more exposed than this, even with dust cover. Don't worry about this. Nothing gets in there unless you drag it through the mud. Anyway the SU16 can use dust and grit for lubrication just like the ak. I actually clean mine after every shooting but I friend in texas carries him in behind the seat of the truck w.o any case or bags and with dirt, spider webs and everything inside never fails to shoot or feed.

MAgs...Some mags go in and out better than others but if feeds ok from all of them. It is a tight fit at first but with use/time it looses a bit and might or might not drop free. Pick up the mags that work best. Isn't the same with many other rilfes? The mag release I see no issues. Folks put a little piece of skate board tape on the button for muscle memory.

1:9 rate of twist no problem stabilizing all the GI and plinkin loads 55, 62gr. Also some 69 soft points. If you want to shoot 75gr. / TAP for self defense accuracy will suffer but since most likely will be close range 2-3MOA vs 1 it is not a huge issue. Anyway 62gr GI and HP is very lethal and it likes them a lot.
Remember this is not a NM. A 1:7 rate is excessive for lighter bullets and jackets might come apart at the muzzle. Then you have a bigger problem.

I don't compare this with the AK or AR in the sense that it can replace them but that it uses some of the best features of both systems and this can be put in the backup but it is not kids play- picnic type of rifle. Rest assure of that.

This is not a post for nobody looking for an AR or AK anyway. only for those interested in a nice reliable US made little rifle.

Cheers,
E.
 
i wasn't aware that keltec represents the rifle is only good for 6000 rounds. that's about a little more than half of what i would expect from a light barreled .223. is it barrel life that creates that limit? i have a SU16CA. it's never failed to feed, fire or eject in a about 2500 rounds of pmc 55 gr. fmj ammo. and i haven't cleaned yet, not even the barrel. still as accurate as the first shot. maybe now i just won't bother. the end is near! i think it's a great rifle for what it is.
 
Get used to the targets. I am going to post more!!!!!

Who said 6,000 rounds? I know folks have 10K rounds and still chugging and grouping like day one! They might do that to cover their asses but you should be getting way more than that unless you shoot in suppressive mode all the time. then you can burn the barrel in one day with enough magazines.
 
This is the keltec that shoot the group above. Light, fast, nimble and deadly.
The wolf dressed like a ship. 4,000+ rounds and no F2F whatsoever.

100_5938.gif

A great product MADE IN THE USA.
 
The wolf dressed like a ship.
Don't know about you, but I would be more afraid of a ship coming at me than a wolf anyway. :D;)

I like them for what they are meant to be. I feel proficient enough with an AR that I am biased to it rather than the Kel-tec offering, but wouldn't discount one in a fight either.
 
68wj,
I appreciate manufactures that come with innovative features. Even if they are not perfect for everyone it shows evolution. The whole AR was so innovative at the time that it got criticized a lot and the army didn't want them at first. Some did everything they could to make them fail during the trials and stoner had to fly over there to find out they were doing the wrong things, testing them unfairly and had to give quick repairs .
Keltec Great systems really for the money. So they are the AKs, ARs and many others.
We are so lucky we have so many good choices now.

When I buy an AK I want a Russian one, an AR US made and when I buy the keltec it makes me feel good knowing that there is yet another great choice that I can buy that it is helping to feed another family in the USA and not in China.

Cheers,
E.
 
think of the keltec like a glock. A little extrange at first having a "plastic" rifle but hey it works! you have to give it to the man in Cocoa FL.
I love ARs too, nice systems. Run them bare bones and also have 3 pistons.
I have a national match barrel that can print .25- .35 MOA all day with handloads.
I also love the AKs. I find the .308 of the saigas extremely accurate.
M1As what can I tell you. History speaks for them.

So many good things out there! I am a firearms addict, sorry.
 
well, i'll give another plug for the keltec. i live in california, where it's nearly impossible to get a ccw. i live in a county of about a half million people, and our sheriff has only issued about 150 ccw. basically, if you're not a personal friend of the sheriff, you just don't get one. however, it is legal to keep an unlocked rifle in your vehicle. the keltech fits easily under the seat of my truck, and, if needed, i can quickly pull it out, unfold it, slap in a magazine, release the bolt, and you're ready for whatever. not as handy as a loaded handgun, but it sure beats a slingshot.

i think i just may go clean my now for the first time ;)
 
Today I ordered another Kel-tec SU16 CA and asked the gunshop to see if they can provide a spare barrel, extractor, firing pin, etc... Not that I needed but I want to have it on hand so I don't have to worry about this 10 years from now. Lets see how fast the manufacturer supplies and I will keep everyone here informed.
Having a good supplier or aftermarket options is one of the most important things when acquiring a firearm. ..obviously unless you are talking about vintage collection or relic type of investment.

Cheers,
E.
 
I live just outside Cook County ILL (Chicago) where it is felony to own an AR or AK. I chose the SU-16C (legal) and really love it. I have just under 6500 rounds thru mine with no signs of wear- and 1.5-2 MOA accuracy with handloads and a good scope. The SU does everything pretty well (plinking, HD/SD, and light hunting-varmints) but nothing in the outstanding range. It really is a Glock like rifle. Handy, legal, inexpensive, and reliable (last FTF was 3000 rounds ago). Nice gun for the money.
 
I was ready to buy a SU-16c, I held it at a gun show, I tried to like it, I really really did, but it just didn't feel right to me when shouldered. Maybe it was just the version I was looking at.
 
Hanzo581,
Try the CA to see if you like it better but that one doesn't fire with the folded stock. Anyway it might not be legal where you live. It is not legal here in communist NY. but the CA it is and in exchange the stock can hold a couple of 10 rounders and you can still put a neoprene cheek rest if you want.
They all are great, whatever model. I would say the advantage of the CA and C is that they are a tad shorter, 16" barrel already threaded for a nice brake and they group like a decent AR but in this case with the nice piston.
I clean mine pretty often but I saw some guys online that said they were going over 10,000 round w/o cleaning on purpose and the things are still chugging and grouping like nothing. I am not sure this is true but based on how my first one is doing with over 4K rounds w/o a hiccup or failure to feed (only 2 duds) I am not surprised.
Really great systems for the money.
Cheers,
E.
 
I live in CA and have one;), good shooter...
:)

I'll say one thing if you were in the Corps, it is about as close to communism as you are going to get...:evil:
 
Harley Quinn,
Yes I got my first one out of curiosity and found it to be a great system and for many would make a great ranch rifle. Super accurate for what it is.

I don't get too caught up in the past. I did my job and now I am to other things. There is no worse enemy that the one that offers you a helping hand and in the other has a heavy hammer ready to hit you. Here in communist NY we call them politicians.

Cheers,
E.
 
greyling22
The rifles are a tad spartan but overall good quality and will take punishment.
Around between $575 and $600 for the CA model is not bad and on top is made in the USA.
I hear you and for me it would be nice a little less but in the end I don't care since it is made in the USA
and this money goes to feed an American family in Cocoa FL, or somewhere in America vs. China.

Cheers.
E.
 
A spare barrel won't help the average SU-16 owner. I've rebarreled an SU-16, and it is a royal pain. The barrel is both held in place with a thrust nut and glued in. Heating the barrel to break the adhesive is tricky as the plastic receiver is plastic. The front sight is pressed on so tight it's extremely difficult to remove.

barrel2.jpg
 
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