KELTEC SU-16 rifles

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HD RIDE,
The FFL dealer doesn't know the law. This carbine was designed with the idea in mind that would be legal in the communist states like CA, NJ and NY.
The carbine doesn't have a pistol grip therefore according to the ban on assault rifles can have the muzzle threaded.

Maybe there is something that I don't know about the ban so please someone enlight us with some much needed information.

Do not pin ANY break on that system. Find someone that knows the law, get one and then do it with the brake of your choice if that makes you feel better.
I do with my ARs to the same diameter of the barrel (communist NY) but because ARs like AKs have a pistol grip so you have no choice unless you want to weld a magazine. The actually turned out to be awesome brakes custom made inexpensively by peak tactical.

All the research on the brakes has been done and I will be happy to assist so you can have this carbine.

See detail. This is an extremely efficient brake and consistently use now in all my AR's. This piston driven M4 prints .7MOA all day long....

RAULrifle003.gif

Let us know how we can help.
Sorry you have to go through this.

Cheers,
E.
 
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HD RIDE,
Here the NJ regulations:

New Jersey law restricts the ownership of certain semi-automatic and other firearms based upon their military appearance. The list includes:

Algimec AGM1 type
Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"
Armalite AR-180 type
Australian Automatic Arms SAR
Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms
Beretta AR-70 and BM59 semi-automatic firearms
Bushmaster Assault rifle
Calico M-900 Assault carbine and M-900
CETME G3
Chartered Industries of Singapore
SR88 type
Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series
Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1 and Max 2,
AR 100 types
Demro TAC-1 carbine type
Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbine types
FAMAS MAS 223 types
FN-FAL, FN- AR, or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms
Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12 Shotguns
G3SA type
Galil type
Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1
Intratec TEC-9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms
M1 carbine type
M1 4S type, MAC10, MAC11, MAC11 9mm carbine type firearms
PJK M-68 carbine type
Plainfield Machine Co. Carbine
Ruger K-Mini-14/5F and Mini-1 4/5RF
SIG AMT, SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP, SIG-PE-57 types
SKS with detachable magazine type
Spectre Auto carbine type
Springfield Armory BM59 and
SAR-48 type
Sterling MK-6, MK-7, and SAR types
Steyr AUG semi-automatic firearms
USAS 12 semi-automatic type shotgun
Uzi type semi-automatic firearms
Valmet M62, M71S, M76, or M78 type semi-automatic firearms
Weaver Arms Nighthawk

The legislation also prohibits any firearms which are substantially identical to any of the above firearms; any semiautomatic shotgun with either a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, a conspicuous pistol grip, or a folding stock; a semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 15 rounds. Any magazine with a capacity greater than fifteen rounds is prohibited, even if there is no semi-automatic firearm to accompany the magazine.

A part or combination of parts to convert or assemble a firearm into an "assault firearm" is also forbidden.

Any "assault firearm" not registered, licensed, or rendered inoperable pursuant to a state police certificate by May 1, 1991, is considered contraband.

Keltec SU16CA is not in the list and doesn't look like any of those.
I hope this helps.
E.
 
Wow. What an ambiguious state law. "Substantially identical" ? Really? Hard to believe these were the states that led the revolution.
 
Panzercat said:
Wow. What an ambiguious state law. "Substantially identical" ? Really? Hard to believe these were the states that led the revolution.
Click to expand...
that’s what happens once you achieve nanny state...
 
With one small percentage of what is spent in senseless state laws (against the US constitution), law enforcement, prison systems, red tape and confusion if they simply used this money for education and proper firearms certification then we all will be safer, happier and most likely with less crime.

Hold on, but then so many people in government would not be able to justify why we need them and their jobs!!

HD RIDE,
Sorry you have to go through this. Politicians are a cancer. That's why I created this post...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=559899

Cheers,
E.
 
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HD RIDE,
As I was doing some pictures for another post I took a picture of a brake design which is perfect for the keltec SU16 CA and C models.
This would have to be custom done flushed with the barrel and then just pinned and maybe just tacked at the bottom and nobody will notice.

100_6055.gif

This brake could be done in black flat high speed steel and it will be beneficial in several ways:
- Small footprint, short and light.
- will allow maintenance of gas block w/o interferance in case that was ever needed. I do this in all my ARs.
- Pretty effective brake effect w/o interfering with accuracy. Some brakes DO interfere with accuracy in several ways, even expensive brakes, but most folks do not think about this.

I can give you the measures from my keltec SU-16CA and have Mike at peak tactical get this custom done for you for affordable cost. http://peaktactical.com/customer_guns.html Mike makes almost all my brakes and his work is excellent so I highly recommend it.

All the research is done as I have done extensive research for 2 years also with the help of peak tactical, the gun shop and other friends from the service and from the range. I don't even know how many brakes designs I have tested in my life but I can assure you something. I know how this works and in this case what is good for your Keltec...

100_6051.gif

I am going to post an article about my muzzle brake research that I have been wanted to finish for months now but I never seem to agree with myself about how much is too much. Anyway we will leave this for another day.

Cheers,
E.
 
The shoots you see above is with its standard integrated handguard-bypod and without sandbags. Most of the time I shoot like this that is the closest to the real life conditions you have in the field when hunting.
Click to expand...

The integrated bipod is surprisingly stable considering it's not a fixed design when deployed. POI is 3-inch higher at 100 yards vs. bench-rest or no support shooting though.
 
Caseless,
It is not too firm but Yes, is actually not bad. I think that it requires a little more work but it can be done. At least you have that option out the box. It is the first time I see this feature w/o being some big and sometimes heavy integrated bipod independent from the handguard.
I love it. It does pretty well for what it is.
Cheers,
E.
 
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After all the confusion it looks that the keltec SU16CA might be ok in NJ. Stay connected from others feedback on the matter. If in doubt contact your sheriff or local police department.
 
I think that every system should come with one set of springs, spare firing pin, etc... to have for quick repair kit or for 1st preventive maintenance, but they don't. There is not even an option for this type of package.
So today I gave the gun shop a list of parts for the keltec to keep around..
- Firing pin
- Extractor
- Extractor spring
- Gas tube spring (Carrier spring)

Additionally I asked them to ask for the price of a replacement barrel with gas block and complete bolt. I will post the answer when they get back to me.

Cheers,
E.
 
This is a break-in process that I shared with another fellow member. This is no 'the only' break in process but as good as any other. Any other ideas and suggestions are welcome as always.

Regarding the range time take it easy. Break it in slowly. The chrome lining will appreciate that and might pay you back with a tad extra performance.

This is one way I do it...

A) Clean the NEW Rifle thoroughly. Even from factory some metal dust or microscopic shavings might come with it so clean everything with a good solvent bone dry. At the same time you enjoy to get to know your carbine and all the parts and how they go together.
You can buy solvent plus a hopes kit for $10 that comes with everything you need to get started. Get some essentials and a good quality light machine/firearms oil.

B) With a light machine oil (gun oil) rub the components very lightly. Only a few drops and what is in your fingers just to massage a tad is enough. The piston, gas port and spring clean with a cloth (not paper) as this removes any oil but still leaves a bit of it from wiping. Any excess oil in this parts will only increase fouling as the powder will stick to the oil. Same with any piston system unless the contrary is specifically indicated by the manufacturer.
In the back where the carrier rides on the receiver and the bolt touches is ok to put one drop of oil. No heat build up or carbon fouling touches this area in this system.

C) Clean up the barrel by running a patch with copper solvent and then run another one or two with a dry patch. Remember this process and bring the cleaning rod and all necessary as you will have to repeat this at the range in day one.

D) At the range follow this simple process.
First 10 rounds. Fire one round. Past a patch or patch with copper solvent and then run another one or two with a dry patch. Some folks like to run a patch with oil in between but I don't anyway make sure you run another one or two with a dry patch before you do the next round. Use good ammo, even if it is inexpensive one. American egle, PMC, UMC, etc...
.223 chamber is ok. Do not use dirty Russian stuff.

After 10 rounds the 11 round do the above only between every 2 rounds. Take your time do not fire them right away as you want to keep the barrel as cool as you can during cleaning. Think of it as a slow heat treating process but you are also conditioning the chrome lining that comes with your chamber and barrel.

So when you are done with the above (one box of ammo) it is time to do the above only every 5 rounds. That means only 4 cleanings in the 2nd box.
Some folks like to do another box in between with cleanings between every 3 rounds but IMHO I believe this is excessive. If you take your time between firings so you don't build too much heat you are ok every five rounds. In the end while you are doing this you are sighting your rifle, taking notes, see what you like, what needs modification and so on.

There is no one single rifle that I know that pleases in all aspects as delivered stock and pleases all aspects of the shooter and with the same type of 'tuning' for two same people even if they are twins. This is something you work at it same way as we do to customize the interior and exterior of our cars as we start using them.

Next boxes of ammo if you still have time that day I would clean every 10 rounds 2 or 3 more times. Then just clean every 25 rounds a couple of times.
If you do have time to do all that in one day do not consider the rifle broken in until you get to 200 rounds or so so even if you do not do this process again this day or next day take it easy and go slow with the barrel. Do not start putting full mags down range like there is no end to it. It is not good for you or the rifle.

E) After a happy day at the range repeat step A and have a big smile. Next day still go slow for a while. You will know when the rifle wants you to 'empty the mag at once, would you?' just for fun.

The first few rounds you might have a few stoppages which is normal. The parts are getting used one to another. You are going to do one round at the time anyway but if it fails to eject do not worry. Keep moving the charging handle vigorously as you were teaching the rifle how to do it.


Muzzle Brake...

Regarding the brake Mike does mostly custom work at good price so the model you can use my own design I am happy to share. We just have to give Mike from Peak Tactical the dimensions if you want it flushed with the barrel and you will love it. If he feels there is any recommendation in terms of performance Mike will let you know. Remember you want a break that
works well but specially is light and doesn't impact accuracy.

Cheers,
E.
 
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My only decision about buying one of KEL-TEC's many products was how long to wait?

I only hear good things. Only see good things.

I want the new PMR and its carbine version.

But it will never happen.

I love that it is American Made all the way.

Just don't understand why they don't fire their current production team and get some folks who can keep up with demand.

There are a lot of guys out here in the western states who would love to have a 22 mag truck gun with the stats of any of the SU's or the PMR.

I wrote this to the head boss man at KEL TEC. There was no response.

C'mon KEL-TEC! We need great innovative AMERICAN COMPANIES to SUCCED AND KICK ASS!

In this matter you write your own ticket.

Wish I could shoot any KEL-TEC all we have on the sherlf here is the baby .380's...always used.

Shane
 
Some people say they do not like keltec rifles and that is ok. Some people like Fords and some others like Chevys.
Then others will say the rifles are not good and then they do not know anything about these rifles.
The ones who own them for a long time now know the truth.
Another great american product. I know Keltec upgraded the manufacturing site and went through a lot of trouble to bump up production so lets give them some time to catch up.
With the supply issues they have and all it is great to see innovation at home and a great US manufacturing company that is doing great and putting food on the table for US families and not chinese ones.

Cheers,
E.
 
Amen 1st Marine! You speak well, with authority...and honestly

My ONLY complaint with KEL-TEC is I can't get one!

I WANT KEL-TEC to become a BIG HITTER in the industry without getting swallowed like BUSHMASTER!

The owner is the sort of guy who made/makes this country a 1 of-a- kind!

While they DO NOT need government support...this is the sort of company I want the government to leave alone...give them every tax break they can, award them every contract they can and then let them roll!

See this regarding the good news for the PMR30...

https://ieonline.microsoft.com/#ieslice

WOOHOO!

See there...I wish we could get those guys to relocate to a "GUN FREE" state with no state income tax and great places for great companies!

Shane
 
shane justice,
Thanks for your kind words. I just say what I mean and mean what I say.
Lots of smart people in these forums. What I tell you about these nice little dandy carbines is from first hand experience with them and not reading somewhere about them.

Did you try online? Some other fellow member got one at Buds gun shop online. There are other places that carry them. I buy local from my "neighbors" so I don't buy online unless I do not have an option but it works fine. I don't know buds website but you can find it I guess.

Others might now other online places you might be able to acquire one.
Cheers,
E.
 
Think I've decided I'll be getting this for my birthday present.
Only question now is C or CA since I don't like the thin barrel of the A and B.
I just can't stand the C's stick stock, but I like the fold down ability. Choices, choices.
 
Panzercat,
Think on the purpose first and then decide. Other than the stock the C and CA are the same rifle. The C will fire folded but will not hold magazines in the stock, a tad longer when folded. The CA will not fire folded, but will hod either 2 10rd magazines or 1 30rd magazine and slightly Overall lenght shorter when folded but a bit wider as the stock stays folded next to the receiver, handguard. In the C it merges with it through the hole.
So look at purpose and if the functions and dimensions have any pros and cons to your purpose of use.
Any SUCA16 is a great carbine.
Cheers.
E.
 
Update to post #40 & #50. First and foremost I’m not saying it legal or illegal. 2 out of the 3 dealers I contacted didn’t have an issue with SU-16CA. Looking back dealer #1 made the assumption it wasn’t legal. It was a judgment call; they never cited any specific law. I don’t want to bash them but I had asked them to look into the availability of another gun and they never got back, so not really the best business model to begin with. The dealer that executed the transfer researched the matter and got back to me a few hours later and said it was OK to order after I fully disclosed the concern of dealer #1. Again, I’m not saying its legal or illegal, I’m just reporting my experience. The point is the laws here are so convoluted your Grand Dad’s 22cal w/tubular magazine could be deemed an assault rifle. many NJ rules & regs are a joke so why do I expect the NJ gun laws to be any different.

OK Rant-off and back to the topic. I remarked in previous post that I would have liked to purchase an AK or AR but the AWB torpedoed that idea as described above. 1stMarine had replied back to my post and only suggested that I’d give the SU16 a look, now I own it. The SU16 is not an AK or AR but it’s a very agile and well-constructed firearm. I’m old fashion and didn’t think I would care for firearms constructed with plastic but I was pleasantly surprised. I’m not as technical as 1stMarine and the other members here; I’m more along the lines of Collector\Enthusiast and 2nd Amendment Proponent guy. That said I like my range time and appreciate fine quality craftsmanship. In my small collection I have other firearms which I believe are also 100% American made. I have two Mini 14s that I enjoy immensely. I know the Mini(s) take a beating in the forums when it is AR vs. Mini. With the addition of the SU-16’s into my collections I can’t say I like one over the other. 1stMarine advised me to look forward to the SU-16’s coming out a little more accurate on range day but I’m OK with that, I still like my Mini’s and wouldn’t trade them for anything, well maybe trade one Mini for two NFL Cheerleaders (kidding).

I had a small concern about the take down and cleaning my SU’s for the first time since the SU’s look a little more intricate than my other guns, I don’t want to force or break anything. I checked a few take-downs on YouTube and some were more descriptive than others, to me this is the best take-down vid I’ve found. He makes the take-down & re-assembly look exceptionally easy. The only issue viewers had with the video is he makes the comment that only the C model could accommodate 5.56 while the A & B should only use 223, however to be fair he does make it known he is not 100% sure and welcomes rebuttals. According to the Kel-Tec site (the way I read it) all SU-16 models accommodate 5.56. I found the video very informative as far as the disassembly; if he could do it that quickly while filming I should do just fine taking my time.

To summarize, I’m very happy with my purchases. I think Kel-Tel makes some very innovative firearms at a fair price that will not break the bank. The limited amount of time I spent on research and reviews of the SU-16's didn’t yield any negative feedback, it was all good however YMMV. @ 1stMarine thank you for your service to County, your recommendations and your past (and probably future) help on my SU-16 questions.


EDIT: here's another excellent YouTube SU-16Take-down Video
 
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HD_Ride,
I am happy that you got your Keltec's. These carbines perform really well as a do it all, do it pretty darn good type of system and specially they are a great option for those folks living in the communist states.

The concept is pretty much like the new glock of the carbines. Reliability, extensive use of polymers and take down could not be easier.

This is a good video of a trigger job on the little sibling the SU-22....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu5k_YUsjv0

Cheers,
E.
 
midtennpawnstar,
Congrats! great buy and let us know if we can help with any questions.
Also at some point consider muzzle brake alternatives. Read the post. you will find
this will help these systems a lot. It is something simple that can be achieved easily even if your model is not a C or CA.
Stay connected.
E.
 
This was a very informative thread and when i take this out to the range ill be sure to follow the advice provided im checking into muzzle brake options this weekend at my brother's gunshop I have a question though. Is it better to just rule out the cheap wolf ammo all together? I like PMC and its affordable but Wolf is usually what i shoot in my other guns and i keep them all cleaned thoroughly.
 

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