Kids making guns?!

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Mil-Spec45

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I've seen several YouTube videos of kids making cardboard guns, or air-compressed guns, and I thought it was cute. But I saw something a little disturbing on YouTube today...a little kid about 8 years old making a pen or "zip" gun. My grandfather had a 410 pen gun, but it was professionally made, owned by adults, and wasn't used by us. This kid was loading .22 rounds into an empty Bic pen.

It makes me wonder where this kid's parents are to teach him about safety. I did crazy stuff too when I was a kid (most ending with something exploding :evil:), and I learned from my mistakes...but kids like this are going to blow a finger off (or worse kill someone), and worse yet, they post it on the internet! There's a trend it seems of young people on the internet who attempt to make these dangerous guns. Not only is it unsafe, but I believe it might fall under the ATF category of "all other firearms", making it illegal, as well.

Anyone else see this? Thoughts?
 
There are SEVERAL older gentlemen on this board with zip gun stories from their childhood. Seems some things haven't changed. ;)

EDIT: I'm guilty of some "homemade fireworks" type fun myself, and I'm only 26. :evil:
 
It makes me wonder where this kid's parents are to teach him about safety. I did crazy stuff too when I was a kid (most ending with something exploding ), and I learned from my mistakes...but kids like this are going to blow a finger off (or worse kill someone), and worse yet, they post it on the internet! There's a trend it seems of young people on the internet who attempt to make these dangerous guns. Not only is it unsafe, but I believe it might fall under the ATF category of "all other firearms", making it illegal, as well.

Why those kids could even poke an eye out if they're not careful. They could do themselves a mischief for sure.

Of course I don't know where that kid's parents are but it probably doesn't matter anyway because it's unlikely that they could teach him about gun safety, or anything else, or that they even know how to do it.

They sure could teach him about locking stuff away from him, though, and other forms of debilitating mistrust. Many parents today are good at that and those parents are at both ends of the spectrum.

The anti-gun parents are best at it. They know nothing about firearms, don't want to know anything, shriek in horror at a picture of one, expel kids who draw those pictures, and want to be Mayor Michael Bloomberg when they become filthy rich. About all those anti-gun parents and their Bloombergian icons can do is teach kids that they're too stupid to learn much of anything and they need to be very, very afraid of the world because they're not competent to handle it. Stay home. Let mom and dad take care of you. There be wild beasts and wild men out there, ready to devour you. Watch American Idol. Be American Idle. Somebody will watch over you. You deserve it. You need it, because you sure as hell ain't gonna survive otherwise.

But many of the so-called pro-gun parents are their match. Today's pro-gun parents who can't teach their kids much about gun safety look and sound very much like their anti-gun counterparts. But instead of banning guns from their house and their world, they exile them to the safes and the trigger locks. Funny thing here: the Supreme Court just explained in its majority Heller decision that a handgun with a trigger lock is useless for its intended purpose, but I bet Justice Alito thought he was addressing an anti-gun argument. He wasn't. The sophisticated pro-gun parents think exactly the same, as the flames that that this post will attract should demonstrate, and as far as I can tell there's no real difference between them. They're not prudent people. They're scared people, which is not the same thing at all.

Kids can't be taught by lectures or by "telling" them. They can be scared by lecturing, they can be put off by them, they can be disgusted or bored or have any number of reactions to the lecture but they don't learn anything the lecture intends to teach. Try lecturing a young kid about how to tie his shoes, then see if he can do it. Speak loudly if you'd like and feel free to threaten him with doom if he doesn't. See how well he can tie his shoes after you're finished.

Kids learn from observing, imitating, and experimenting accompanied by explanations. Teach them guns are for adults only, by locking them away from the kids, and the kids will prove that they are much smarter than their parents. The kids know they'll be adults some day so they will embark on a self-directed learning program without their parents' guidance. It's the same way about sex, alcohol, finances, work, and every other aspect of the world that an adult confronts. Parents either start real teaching very early or they abdicate their role as their kids' teachers altogether. It happens fast and decisively. A parent who isn't trusted is mistrusted forever. If you think diamonds are forever, mistrust is much more durable and harder too. Mistrusted parents are the felons of each generation: never forgotten, never forgiven, and never entitled to a vote in their kids' lives.

Teaching requires mutual trust between teacher and pupil. The kid needs to trust that his parent really does love him and wants to help him grow well, strong, sturdy, and successfully. The parent needs to trust that his kid will respond honestly and directly, with no sneaking. What's required is mutual trust and affection, with the conviction that both share a special bond.

You don't get trust by locking things away from the people whose trust you want. As an "older gentlemen" with much experience I can describe what's needed, but I surely can't accomplish the remediation of an entire generation that wouldn't recognize good parenting if it bit them in the ass.

By the way, any fool can tell good parenting from bad by looking at the product. If the kid can't be trusted, it's because somebody didn't help him learn how to be trustworthy. If the kid shoots, stabs, poisons, strangles, or sets afire his cat, dog, sister, grandmother, friend, or homeless person, it's because somebody didn't help him learn not to be a sociopath. The somebody who should have done it sure ain't me. The somebody who didn't do it sure ain't me either.

So the YouTube kids are doing just what kids will do when they're exploring the world without a guide. They're flying solo, as kids will do when they've been abandoned and want to survive. The BATFE? It can't be expected to substitute for good parents. Good parents would have helped shape a different kind of BATFE years ago anyway. Again: look at the product to assess the people who helped make it.

In case it matters, I prefer the term "person from an earlier time" to "older gentleman." I'm always older but not always a gentleman, so that term is inaccurate. I distinguish between words like "man" and "gentleman," and "woman" and "lady," because I am indeed a person from an earlier, tougher, and much more discriminating time. We were raised to become at least self-sufficient, responsible adults. That's the way some of us raised our kids too. It's not done by hiding stuff.
 
I had pleanty of opprotunities to do grave harm to my young body. But, I almost always talked my self out of anything too foolish. I remember there always being a couple kids that did not have that much sence. Thier foolishness lead to fires, vadalism, theft, depravity and many brands of stupidity. All I can say is talk to your kid and show them a little reason. Chances are they will avoid the worst of it like we did...
 
kids will be kids, but posting a video of yourself commiting a felony on the internet is just plane dumb.
 
Excellent post, Robert Hairless. Most excellent.

Good parenting is very important in raising kids. Great parenting is required when kids are around or using firearms.

The Ooops Strategy of parenting is not very effective with kids and guns. A ten or twelve year old kid with a gun cannot be counted on to behave responsibly without adult supervision.
 
By the way, any fool can tell good parenting from bad by looking at the product. If the kid can't be trusted, it's because somebody didn't help him learn how to be trustworthy.

False.

For the most part good parenting will produce good results. It will certainly produce good results more often than bad parenting. I'm a strong believer in parents being parents and in the philosophy of firm discipline applied with infinite love.

But babies are not born as blank slates. They have distinct natures even before birth and, sad as it is to say, some are what used to be called, "bad seed". Sometimes, under some circumstances, the anti-social tendencies of a person whose nature is inherently anti-social in some fashion, even inherently dangerous, can be guided and channeled into productive ways.

It can be, and often is, the parents' fault when kids go bad -- there are many ways for parents to fail to do their job of raising the future of mankind. But sometimes a kid will simply go bad regardless and that's not the parents' fault.
 
It can be, and often is, the parents' fault when kids go bad -- there are many ways for parents to fail to do their job of raising the future of mankind. But sometimes a kid will simply go bad regardless and that's not the parents' fault.

This is quite true. However, I would venture to guess those true sociopaths make up less than 1% of the untrustworthy.

Good parents can sometimes have bad children. However, this is a rarity.

Bad parents can also end up with good children. This is an even greater rarity.

As such, I think Robert has it correct for the VAST majority of cases.
 
This just shows that guns cannot be regulated. You indeed can make one out of a small pipe. I'm not going to say whether it was stupid to do or not, but that risk is up to the person making it. I sure as heck don't advocate banning pipes now.
 
a gun??

Heck, guns were passe when I was a kid. My father had tons of them and we went shooting often. There was no mystique about them...

Now, Rocket launchers and flame throwers were a whole different story. My friend and I built a working rocket launcher, and 50 rockets... They worked. They were not terribly accurate, but they did go BOOM.

We did create a flame thrower as well. It was not man portable, but when built onto a bike, it was at least mobile.

We also made Nitro-Glycerin in Chem class.


Did I mention we got into a lot of trouble?

But, both of us are still alive and have all our digits and eyes.

interesting note....a "D" sized Estes rocket engine is exactly the same size as 3/4 conduit piping......think... pipe bomb attached to a rocket.... Get a couple of tube for the launcher, some wiring, batteries and an ingenious folding fin design... and voila.
 
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I'm not implying that 8 year olds are too young for 22s, just that it's dangerous to shoot a bullet out of plastic (no Glock joke intended).

If I had made a "here's how you make a dangerous plastic gun" video and posted it online, my mom would have beat me with a hot fireplace poker. I mean it is plausable for a 22 to kill someone.



Rocket launcher? Jesus! My dad told me this story where he went over to a little school that's up a dead end street from us (it use to be a military acadamy high school, but now is a grade school) and there was an old cannon that was "disabled" but wasn't sealed off. He said he and his friends loaded it with cans of powder, dropped a bowling ball down in, lit a make-shift fuse and ran. He said he never expected it to explode and propel a bowling ball over the hillside like what it did, but he does know that he ran like heck. Apparently it didn't hurt anyone, but people did hear the blast. He said the next day someone filled it with cement, and that they were never caught. The truth of the story is up to you.
 
That reminds me of the case of "stumping" powder My friend and I found when I was about 15.........................

I survived, so did he...
 
Mil-Spec45 said
"Rocket launcher? Jesus! My dad told me this story where he went over to a little school that's up a dead end street from us (it use to be a military acadamy high school, but now is a grade school) and there was an old cannon that was "disabled" but wasn't sealed off. He said he and his friends loaded it with cans of powder, dropped a bowling ball down in, lit a make-shift fuse and ran. He said he never expected it to explode and propel a bowling ball over the hillside like what it did, but he does know that he ran like heck. Apparently it didn't hurt anyone, but people did hear the blast. He said the next day someone filled it with cement, and that they were never caught. The truth of the story is up to you."

He He He.

That's funny, never used a projectile, but I do know that a tin of Curtis and Harvey, with a cannon fuse and wrapped in "gaffa tape", makes a hell of a noise from the muzzle of a 68 pound Armstrong Withworth coastal gun at 5.00am in the morning.

How do I know that?

Not tellin'

:neener::neener:
 
I'm not implying that 8 year olds are too young for 22s, just that it's dangerous to shoot a bullet out of plastic (no Glock joke intended).

You're absolutely correct. A lot of folks, including many who should know better, underestimate the pressures and power of the humble .22 LR. It has more than enough PSI to do serious injury or kill if an improperly designed chamber should fail. The standard is over 20,000 psi, which makes it a good deal "hotter" than many centerfire handgun rounds.

You try to make a cheapo zip gun with inadequate parts and you're cruising for a Darwin. The greatest danger is of course the breach failing and becoming a reverse "bullet." This sort of thing has injured and killed plenty of people. Laws aside, unless you have the knowledge and a machine shop it's not something to mess around with. And it's certainly not something to set off near living tissue.
 
I had to learn how to sand, whitewash, and install a fence post in about 1 hour after my first "home-made" cannon fiasco. My Mom never noticed and I am only 16. I've also made rocket launchers and mortars out of fireworks, those were fun.
 
Heck, guns were passe when I was a kid. My father had tons of them and we went shooting often. There was no mystique about them...

Now, Rocket launchers and flame throwers were a whole different story. My friend and I built a working rocket launcher, and 50 rockets... They worked. They were not terribly accurate, but they did go BOOM.

We did create a flame thrower as well. It was not man portable, but when built onto a bike, it was at least mobile.

We also made Nitro-Glycerin in Chem class.


Did I mention we got into a lot of trouble?

But, both of us are still alive and have all our digits and eyes.

interesting note....a "D" sized Estes rocket engine is exactly the same size as 3/4 conduit piping......think... pipe bomb attached to a rocket.... Get a couple of tube for the launcher, some wiring, batteries and an ingenious folding fin design... and voila.

Not so ingenious now, I can tell you from personal experience that anything that goes "BOOM" is considered a destructive device and is a Class C Felony per each one that you made!

I spent some time in jail because of such concoctions. This was 13 years ago. I was lucky, had that been today, I would have been charged with terrorism, conspiracy, violating the patriot act, and a laundry list of other charges and would be sitting in a nice cold think tank for the next 30 years.

If you value your freedom DO NOT MAKE SUCH ITEMS!
 
That reminds me of the case of "stumping" powder My friend and I found when I was about 15.........................

The farm had a good supply of "stumping" powder a.k.a. corn powder, nitro & oil, dynamite & caps to get things going........ :evil:

I'm gonna have to plead the 5th on this one even though I think the statute of limitations has already run out on all escapades.

ditto

Somehow I survived intact -- pure luck. :rolleyes:
 
Not so ingenious now, I can tell you from personal experience that anything that goes "BOOM" is considered a destructive device and is a Class C Felony per each one that you made!

Does this mean that my chemistry professors are committing felonies every time they show the freshman class what happens when you burn a H2 and O2 mixture?

Seriously, making things that go boom is part of being a kid. Heck, even an adult enjoys things blowing up every now and then.

I think we're becoming a little paranoid here. Making things that go boom is far too easy and common to be considered terrorism. Heck, would I be put away for 50 years for having a box of firecrackers in my closet?

I don't know what they laws are but this just seems too far-fetched.
 
Hay, if that disturbs you then consider this. I saw a picture somewhere of a kid (probably Mark Serbu's son) working in the Serbu Arms factory. :D

Of course, I think we can all agree that a little boy helping dad at work is a little different story.
 
I don't think making zip guns should be illegal. I don't think a 13 year old taking his 22LR rifle out for some target shooting should be illegal either.

I do think that a bic pen body wouldn't be my choice of barrel/chamber.
 
The heavens will fall, the earth will shake, we will all die. Because clearly some kid messing around will cause the end of the world :uhoh:

What the kids were doing was stupid, and they might lose a finger. If they want to start shooting they should get a real rifle as its allot safer.

I don't support anyone doing stupid things, but if they are away from everyone else and there is no chance what ever there messing with can kill anyone but them. I don't really care what they do.
 
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