Kimber 1911 For Idpa

[MISFIRE]

Newbie here, I have a goal of shooting my first IDPA match this spring, I am presently gunless and I am seeking advise on my purchase. This gun will be used all around, under the matress, IDPA, ETC. my first choice was the Kimber TLE = $976.00, then I looked at a Kimber team match = $1250.00. I would appreciate any advice.
Thanks Bill

 

[Jim Watson]

I'd get the plainest version they made and apply the difference in money toward holster, ammo, and training.

 

[Correia]

Agree with Jim.

And I say this to anybody just starting out. There is no real need to get a fancy gun with lots of features to start with. If you have decided on a 1911, get a plain jane basic Kimber/Springfield/Colt/DW(other reputable manufacturer) or something for a smaller amount of money, and then shoot the heck out of it in competition.

By the time you get the hang of it, you will start seeing what features you really like or dislike. My dream gun when I started shooting is far far different than what I shoot today.

 

[Ankeny]

It's a tough call. I know conventional wisdom is to start out with a lower end pistol until you see if you will be in the sport for the long haul. The only problem with that is guys end up buying a better pistol then get buyer's remorse and wish they would have started out with a better gun from the get go. I would start with great gear, but I know I am in the minority opinion.

 

[dukeofurl]

I used a Kimber TLE in IDPA a total of ONE TIME. Theres a reason I went with an SSP gun. If this is your first gun, you really need to figure out what you shoot well before you start spending big bucks.

A new .45 is pricey as you've illustrated - feeding it is 20 cents a round on the cheap side. If you dont like the thing - you've pretty much got a $800 paperweight.

The competitive aspects of using the Kimber are:

You'll start with 9 in the gun, you do need to get 8 round mags. You will not be competitive shooting 7 rounders nor will the gun come with anything more than 1 seven round magazine. On the 5 target courses of fire, you will be making the 2 second reloads whereas an SSP shooter will not.

CDP is a very competitive division. Some of the best shooters in the world use single stack 1911's. You may encounter some fierce competiton when you shoot a state match. I shoot regular matches and CDP shooters make up a sizable portion of the top 10 every month. They're good. Frank Garcia shot 1st place MA in the FL state match, so its a tough division.

45 ammo isnt cheap, as I've said above.

If you go with the TLE, I reccomend 2 upgrades - slide release and ambi thumb safety. Some stages you will start with the gun in your weak hand and unless you hyperextend your thumb - you'll have a bit of a challenge taking the gun off safe. The Team Match incorporates a lot of the upgrades that make it a very competitive IDPA gun.

I went with my Glock the first time I shot IDPA - Didnt come in dead last, but I was a newbie. The next month I used the TLE which I couldnt hit the broad side of a barn with. Went back to the Glock and I've been kicking ass.

 

[Jim Watson]

A higher end Kimber is not a better made gun. It just has more "features" off the assembly line. Since an entry level Kimber is just as likely to have a decent trigger pull, has as visible sights, and no more sharp edges than the high priced spread, (Cooper's critera.) it is at no disadvantage except cosmetically. The only thing you might reasonably add that will really help is a mag well funnel.

You do not need an ambi safety in IDPA (Unless you are lefthanded.) Strings shot with the gun already in the weak hand require only that the finger be out of the trigger guard, there is no requirement that the safety be on. Extended slide stops are prone to inadvertent engagement and I have taken them off a couple of guns.

A Glock does not make a good paperweight if you cannot adapt to it quickly; it is not as heavy as a 1911 you don't like.

Hard to argue with the cost of ammo, though. There is nothing cheaper than 9mm econo-ball. A 9mm 1911 is a smooth shooting gun, too.

I shoot a 1911 .45 CDP better than any other gun. I don't mean only that I carry a higher classification, I mean my raw scores are better than with even a very similar ESP. (Unless there are some maxed out 18 shot scenarios that cost a reload.) I don't know why, that is just how I shoot.

You have to start somewhere and we can't tell you what you will do the best with. Just as well go with your heart. If it doesn't work, well, gun trading can be fun, too.

 

[dukeofurl]

Jim, I have to disagree with you on the ambi safety issue.

I've shot many COF's that prescribed the gun be grabbed WEAK HAND from an abitrary point. An egg crate, desk, briefcase, what have you - I think its simply an option that allows flexibility for the shooter. I had a hell of a time trying to turn the safety off with my TLE weak hand. It went something like - pick up the gun while keeping your thumb on the left side of the gun, flip the safety off, thumb comes back around the full sized beavertail and then get your sights aligned.

 

[lycanthrope]

I've shot the Team Match. the Gold match and the CDP. I currently own an Eclipse with at least 10,000 rounds through it.

None shoot better than the base model. I do, however, feel the base Kimber is better than any othe rmake than perhaps the STI Trojan. Start with stainless for a workhorse and then add the options that you want. Try to wear it out. You won't!

 

[Jim Watson]

Duke, I cannot recall a CoF in my area of operations that called for weak hand recovery of a cocked and locked gun. If we had such, I would definitely get more use out of the one ambi I own. But all I see either start with gun in hand or transfer from right to left.

We did have a one-handed reload... once. Scared everybody so bad that there was never a repetition of a drill that was common in IPSC 30 years ago.

I am not comfortable recommending a particular 1911; all makes turn out lemons with some regularity. If Misfire hadn't started out apparently pre-sold on a Kimber, I would not have commented.

 

[dukeofurl]

Really? We do stages with the gun lying on the table all the time. We had a "watching TV" stage Sunday where the gun was retrieved from a table and we've done others in the past. I understand the rationale behind making everyone draw from a holster, but lets face it - guns you may have to use may not be in holsters on your hip at the centerline of your body, strong side.

I'm tempted to compete at the next match using a shoulder rig.

Heres my take on the ambi movement a little more detailed.

If I'm going to pick up my gun with my strong hand, and since I'm right handed I'm going to place the 1911 on its LEFT side - right side up. At the buzzer, I get to grab and go. For the next string I'm going to shoot weak hand, the gun is going to be started on the opposite side. I'm unsure as to the ramifications of picking up a gun strong hand and transferring to weak hand. As an MD, if someone did that after explaining YOU WILL PICK UP THE GUN WITH YOUR WEAK HAND - that constitutes a shooter error.

It seems to me that all the drills and practice that simulates "your strong hand being injured and you must shoot with your weak hand" - and you pick up strong hand and transfer the gun, it seems disadvantageous to do so.

One handed reloads are accidents waiting to happen. I did an el presidente drill with:

*beep*
*shooter shoots while moving backwards until they reach cover, reloads and re-engages threat*

This was NOT an easy move nor was it suitable for beginners. Thankfully we had experienced shooters.

As for 1911 makes, I'll share experiences with brands but Misifire stated he was interested in a TLE - thats the same gun I used in IDPA so I figured I should share the competitive experience.

BTW - Stage 1 on the day I used the Kimber was the stage where the gun was lying on the ground and I had to shoot everything strong hand while prone.

 

[Correia]

Duke, a shoulder rig would specifically be against IDPA rules.

 

[dukeofurl]

I know, but I'm the match director so I can do whatever I want. I'd double gun it in SSP, one with shoulder draw for grins and one for actual score.

Besides - I'd have to draw israeli. That puts everyone else at an inherent advantage.

 

[Correia]

I don't know if you are a new MD, but be really really really careful about makeing exceptions to the rules for yourself, because the next thing you know you are making exceptions for your buddies, and then you are making exceptions for Johnny Triggerslap. And then you don't have an IDPA club anymore, you have Duke's House o' Shootin IDPAesq Competition.

 

[BillD]

We do stages where the gun is laying on a table too. However, we never require them to be done weak hand only. Weak hand only stages are lame to begin with unless you start with the gun in the hand and safety off. If not, you might as well draw weak handed and some guys can't reach that far to say nothing of covering themselves and half the squad.

 

[ralphtt]

per the dukeofurl . . .

"I know, but I'm the match director so I can do whatever I want."

duke . . . please advise where you direct these IDPA matches the permit use of shoulder holsters. I want to be sure I do NOT accidentally show up at one of your matches. :banghead:

thanks . . .

 

[OF]

I know, but I'm the match director so I can do whatever I want.

Maybe I'm not reading you right, but are you saying that because you are the MD, the rules do not apply to you?

- Gabe

 

[OF]

To the original question: If you're set on a 1911, I'd suggest the base-model route. The 1911 is kind of a unique animal, with so many possible customizations and configurations that it will be hard to get a higher-end gun out of the gate that you'll be completely satisfied with.

I think you're better off getting a base model Springfield "Loaded", Kimber Custom or newer Colt and shooting it for a while before deciding what route you want to take re: customizations.

Or you can always grab a used Glock for cheap and get some trigger time in that way.

Be sure to save money in the budget for belt, holster, mag pouches, lots and lots of ammo, more magazines, etc.

That said, I'll also say that I wouldn't necessarily recommend a 1911 for a new shooter. The 1911 typically requires more care than some of the more modern designs. Treated well and run by someone who knows what they're doing, it can't be beat, but you will get an perfectly acceptable level of performance out of a Glock or HK USP or something of that nature with alot less care and feeding than the 1911 requires...it is a hundred-year old design after all

- Gabe

 

[dukeofurl]

Whats wrong for running the timer for fun with a couple of the guys after everyone leaves? When did that become a crime? I spend enough time setting everything up - I should be able to play around afterwards!

 

[dukeofurl]

BTW - if anyone wants to dicuss the merits of me playing around at the range after everyone is done, please PM me with your comments and I'd be happy to indulge you as to how much work an MD has to do.

 

[OF]

I don't think anyone was saying you can't play around after the match, duke. You made it sound like you were rewriting the rules for yourself during the match because you were the MD.

You should also consider that all the people who have commented to you about your statement have more than a little experience as MD's themselves...we're well aware of what it entails.

Sounds like a communication breakdown....no biggie.

- Gabe

 

[dukeofurl]

I did? Well let me make my stance clear once and for all:

If I'm gonna play the game, I'm gonna play by the rules that everyone else has to.

If I'm gonna work hard, I'm gonna play hard. Including shooting a stage John Woo, with a shoulder rig, or with an uzi.

Honestly - I would like to see IDPA adopt a shoulder holster rule. The rationale behind the sport is use what you carry - and I know many that use shoulder rigs. Mandatory israeli reload is all.

 

[MISFIRE]

Well, I did it just as I was mulling over the pluses & minuses of the different models Kimber offered a local gun shop had a sale. The only 1911 on sale was the TLE, I BOUGHT IT ! I will have to start another thread on what equipment I will need . thanks for all of the great advice, WHAT A GREAT PLACE TO HANG OUT !
Bill

 

[faustulus]

It went something like - pick up the gun while keeping your thumb on the left side of the gun, flip the safety off, thumb comes back around the full sized beavertail and then get your sights aligned.

try using another finger, perhaps one already on the side of the safety.