Bama Drifter
Member
To answer 50 Shooter, all the voters left there a LOOONG time ago and moved to areas w/ better schools and less crime.
LA City Council Passes Bill Banning Possession Of Mags Over 10 Rounds
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Bama Drifter
Member
I suppose I'll have to Strongly Disagree in a polite THR manner! You didn't answer what your SoCal connection is, but that is fine. Let's show folks that Californians are really a bunch of whackos that should be surfing instead of gun collecting. 2nd Amendment, freedom for all* Last post in this thread. I bow out.
*must be 18, some exclusions apply, void where prohibited. No shipments to CA, NY, DC, MD, et al.
*must be 18, some exclusions apply, void where prohibited. No shipments to CA, NY, DC, MD, et al.
50 Shooter
member
Yes, they did but at the time when they were pushing for it and even voted in a mayor... Where were the voters that started a great movement?
I was born in the Valley and lived there for a long time. When I heard of the move to secede from L.A., it was one of the best things to happen in CA politics. Why people failed to get this done still makes me upset. It would've been a huge blow to L.A. as the Valley holds a lot of people living in the suburbs of L.A. Just think how living out of that shadow would've been?
Sadly now I absolutely loathe driving to or through the Valley, what a <removed> it's become! Unless you have the money to live south of the Blvd or on the northwest end of it.
I was born in the Valley and lived there for a long time. When I heard of the move to secede from L.A., it was one of the best things to happen in CA politics. Why people failed to get this done still makes me upset. It would've been a huge blow to L.A. as the Valley holds a lot of people living in the suburbs of L.A. Just think how living out of that shadow would've been?
Sadly now I absolutely loathe driving to or through the Valley, what a <removed> it's become! Unless you have the money to live south of the Blvd or on the northwest end of it.
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Aragon
member
The public school system where I live has some of the finest schools in the entire nation. The local private parochial schools are great too. So much for that red herring. California's University of California and California State University systems are the finest public university systems in the USA (and likely the world.)
Crime's not a problem here either. It's certainly lower than a great many parts of the USA.
Nice try though.
Jeff82
Member
The vast majority of the US has very low crime. It's the dem controlled large urban areas that drive the rate up.
Aragon
member
Very true. Subtract Chicago, NYC, Los Angeles, Houston, Detroit, St. Louis and a few other cities from the crime stats and they drastically drop nationwide...
I'm glad you were able to defend your position without bashing other states by name, like you took credit for in your post.
Just for your information, I graduated from both the public school system in south Mississippi and from one of that state's institutions of higher education. I've made my living as a Mechanical Engineer for 33 years and have designed products I can guarantee that you've used before. I also have around 16 issued patents and a few more pending, and I currently design firearms and accessories. So thank you for your very high road post.
To remain at least somewhat on topic, most of the fault lies at the feet of the Supreme Court. By opening the door to "reasonable restrictions" in Heller and by refusing to accept cases that would apply any level of judicial scrutiny to the quilt of local and state laws they have created a great deal of uncertainty as to what is truly Constitutionally protected. Speaking as a Southerner who lived through the Civil Rights era it would be like the courts affirming that Civil Rights are an individual right but not adopting a strict standard of striking down local laws attempting to restrict those individual rights in some way.
Aragon
member
I very much agree. I think a lot of people attack other places and people out of envy and ignorance.
I live in CA and I pretty much cannot buy a hideously overpriced machine gun (which I wouldn't do if I could), if I want another arm chambered in 50 BMG, it'll have to be in .510 DTC instead if I don't want to cheat and my new AR builds require bullet-buttons. Those are pretty much the only three limitations on me and my family.
That's not enough to leave my home of several generations, where my family has roots and most everything I like it close by.
Beware - someone is going to zero-in and say that "climate" doesn't mean as much as magazines that hold more than 10 rounds as they entirely miss the point you made...
danez71
Member
I went back and reread all the posts up to your 1st in this thread.
In doing so I can set the record straight... you took the 1st swipe at CA before anyone said anything against TX.
I also said I personally know people in southern states that want to move to CA despite me say 'careful of what you wish'.
Why would someone want to be here...? Well being the 8th largest economy in THE WORLD and having some of the best higher education IN THE WORLD and being the technology hub OF THE WORLD and producing over 1/2 of the countries produce and (I think) produce more beef than TX... being arguably the racing hub of the country and arguably having the best climate in the US mainland......
I'd say those are all pretty good reasons to start.
If you can't recognize that..... then I have to wonder what took you and your family so long to leave CA??
danez71
Member
Well... quite simply. .. I'm danez71. That's who
In all seriousness Bama Drifter has the right attitude and was defending Californians.
IMO you were unfairly treating him like he was bashing CA and not like he was just mistaken about city geography.
I didn't mean any disrespect to you personally....
I'd say, and have said, the same thing to anyone else.
danez71 said:
I quoted Aragon's swipe at Texas (post #48) in my first post (#56) on this particular topic. Page 3. The swipes at California, BTW, started well before I got here. Lies are unbecoming of you.
And this made me laugh pretty hard. I wondered why you would give orders to another member and apparently, he wondered too:
Aragon said:
Now, your most recent input:
See, you're still not getting it. You're coming up with plenty of good reasons that would appeal to small numbers of people, but the negatives (relatively high unemployment, almost the highest cost of living in the Union, restrictive gun laws, high taxes...) affect everyone in the state.
Being the 8th largest economy doesn't matter to most people. Having a job certainly matters though! How does that stack up? From the Bureau of Labor Statistics, as of last month California's unemployment rate was 6.3%, ranking as 43rd out of 50 states and D.C. Can't say that makes me jealous, my state came in at 4.2%. Source http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm
Best higher education? Ok I'll bite. Are you currently enrolled or planning to enroll in college in the near future? What % of Americans are enrolled in college at any particular time? Do you expect your kids to go to college near where you live? Do you expect to graduate from college and be so grateful to the state you got a diploma in that you remain in that state for the rest of your life? Most folks just cheer for the football team the rest of their life and then make actual reasonable decisions about where they should live the majority of their lives spent outside of college.
Technology hub of the world? I don't design computers but I do have one, which allows me to argue on the internet and purchase tech products from whichever state I choose, and even from many if not most foreign countries. Also, by living somewhere else I'm not paying the highest state sales tax (source: http://www.salestaxinstitute.com/resources/rates ) or the highest state income tax (source: https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-too...th-the-Highest-and-Lowest-Taxes/INF23232.html ) in the U.S.
1/2 the country's produce? That's a great reason to live in California, if you're a farmer. If not, all that produce doesn't stop California from having the highest cost of living in the U.S. (source: https://www.missourieconomy.org/indicators/cost_of_living/ )
Racing hub of the country. Sure, that would certainly appeal to racing enthusiasts. So a point for California.
Arguably the best climate? Well, I don't suppose anyone could argue that California's climate is particularly bad. I haven't been to every state or even most of them so I couldn't say which one is best, but I can say that Arizona and central Washington's climates were much to my liking. Either state will give California a run for its money when it comes to scenic views too.
On the one hand, high unemployment rate, highest state income tax, highest state sales tax, highest cost of living, and heavy restrictions re: guns.
On the other hand, lots of races and a pretty good climate. Doesn't seem fair, does it?
And to maintain some semblance of being on-topic I like being able to purchase and own a standard AR-15, the ability to purchase any handgun on the U.S. civilian market, to own magazines greater than ten rounds, and not have to report to the government whenever I buy, sell or possess a privately owned firearm. There's more gun-related reasons but you get the picture.
danez71
Member
I quoted Aragon's swipe at Texas (post #48) in my first post (#56) on this particular topic. Page 3. The swipes at California, BTW, started well before I got here. Lies are unbecoming of you.
Try reading better.
I didn't say you were the 1st to swipe. I said you swipe at CA before anything said about TX.
So lets go back to post 48 and tell us where the swipe it?
Nothing disparaging in there at all.
Small # of people.... that's just ridiculous to say.
But it appeals to millions of others that have the ability to see what that can offer. Many still don't choose to live there but millions of others choose to because of the of the opportunities offered by an economy ranked 8th in the world.
So that's something you cant or refuse to understand while millions of others can.
No. I'm past that. But millions of other people see the value and choose to pursue it.
Apparently that's another thing you cant or refuse to see that millions of others can.
Millions of people do want to pursue that field. You should be thankful because its in part what allows to ineffectively argue on the internet.
But again, theres another that you either cant or refuse to see.
Farming to technology. Arguably the most diverse jobs available.... for everyone that wants them.
Even if people still choose not to live in CA, which I could certainly understand, millions of people can see the diverse opportunity that CA has and does rank at or near the top in the country/world.
But again, you either cant understand these very simple things, or just refuse to.
So I'll ask again, what took you and your family so long to leave CA?
Deog
Member
Sure, I do not like the liberal climate where I am at, I don't like that I have a bullet button, or 10 round max magazines, but, do you think that people that have business's and homes and family can just pack up and leave in a flash ? Born and raised in Venice beach, nothing about the area I grew up in is the same, sure it has changed for what I consider to be the negative, but this is still my home, and I will fight for it. Me and my famly were here long before those that outnumber us now, but I will not conform to there ways
Went surfing this morning, and now
AM heading out to the oak tree range to shoot some pistols, when I get home, we are going to BBQ, enjoy a few cold Tecates and watch the sunset over the Pacific. Life sucks.
Went surfing this morning, and now
AM heading out to the oak tree range to shoot some pistols, when I get home, we are going to BBQ, enjoy a few cold Tecates and watch the sunset over the Pacific. Life sucks.
This is getting boring. Small numbers of people, yes. California has 636,000 tech jobs which is 0.4% of the U.S. labor force (157 mil). Not everyone wants or needs a tech job, not even close, and those that do have ample opportunity elsewhere in the country as well. 636k looks like a big number until you realize the number of people working or looking for work is 2,500 times bigger.
You put a lot of stock in 'the 8th largest economy,' despite hands-down the country's highest taxes and cost of living, and a relatively high rate of unemployment. You also put a lot of stock in being the biggest area for tech and farming. Which is cool, but not really relevant because California isn't the only option. California does have a lot of tech jobs, but then, so does the rest of the country.
http://lifehacker.com/the-best-100-cities-in-the-us-for-tech-jobs-1702590877
Same with farming. California might produce the most, but there are a lot of other states that account for a heck of a lot of farm jobs.
http://www.stuffaboutstates.com/agriculture/
http://www.ers.usda.gov/faqs.aspx#10 (newer data, FAQ provides most recent ranking and link from FAQ provides raw numbers)
So, California has a lot of tech jobs, but so do a lot of other places. California has a lot of agricultural jobs, but so do a lot of other places. Every opportunity that California affords can be found somewhere else in the country.
And, you are willfully missing the point about higher education. If someone wants a good education and selects a California institution, that doesn't require them to stay in California for any period of time whatsoever after they graduate.
If I made a sweeping, unsupported statement that people in California are jealous of Texas, what would you think I'm trying to convey? Perhaps something disparaging?
You put a lot of stock in 'the 8th largest economy,' despite hands-down the country's highest taxes and cost of living, and a relatively high rate of unemployment. You also put a lot of stock in being the biggest area for tech and farming. Which is cool, but not really relevant because California isn't the only option. California does have a lot of tech jobs, but then, so does the rest of the country.
http://lifehacker.com/the-best-100-cities-in-the-us-for-tech-jobs-1702590877
Same with farming. California might produce the most, but there are a lot of other states that account for a heck of a lot of farm jobs.
http://www.stuffaboutstates.com/agriculture/
http://www.ers.usda.gov/faqs.aspx#10 (newer data, FAQ provides most recent ranking and link from FAQ provides raw numbers)
So, California has a lot of tech jobs, but so do a lot of other places. California has a lot of agricultural jobs, but so do a lot of other places. Every opportunity that California affords can be found somewhere else in the country.
And, you are willfully missing the point about higher education. If someone wants a good education and selects a California institution, that doesn't require them to stay in California for any period of time whatsoever after they graduate.
If I made a sweeping, unsupported statement that people in California are jealous of Texas, what would you think I'm trying to convey? Perhaps something disparaging?
danez71
Member
Which are some of the reason why millions of people would want to live in CA just as they might to in those other states.
You just showed that you're point is not valid.
No, I'm not. I agree with you on that point
The fact that they can move out of CA has ZERO relevance to why people would want to live in CA.
C'mon.... just answer the 1 simple question....
What took you and your family so long to leave CA?
You're 1/2 right.
When you have traveled as much as I have in the USA then you can discuss how you know what people really feel. I guess you experienced envy from a bunch of liars? Or they are just ignorant to the bliss that is CA? Or you are making things up to make yourself feel better?
I spend a lot of time in California. Hwy 1 is one of the prettiest places I have ever visited and I make that drive at least once a year. From just north of Oxnard all the way up the coast to the Redwoods. I have many very good friends, mostly Hispanic, who are just as redneck as the people in Alabama. The difference is that in Alabama and most "good" states we don't have one or two metro areas that define what we can do in the rest of the state.
I could live in any part of the country that I wanted to live in because I just need to live near an airport. Livingston Montana, Anchorage Alaska, San Francisco, Chicago, etc. I have spent a lot of time in most of the States and the people there are just fine, law abiding, gun owning people but.....some have allowed their States to be taken over by the minority. They can cry and whine but the only way to take it back is to get those people out of office and get statewide laws that cannot be co-opted by Liberal, big city politicians. It CAN be done.
Before you bash people for bashing your state please be aware that it is up to YOU to change things. I CHOOSE to live where I live because I like more about my state(s) than I do about yours. It has been in the upper 90's for the past two weeks here with high humidity. CA weather is great (I was in Monterey last week) but there is no way on earth I would choose to live there because of the political climate. Here I can walk in my yard carrying a gun with a 17 round magazine and it is perfectly legal. I can carry a gun in my car without a permit. These are some of the reasons I choose NOT to live in CA or IL or NY. Weather is nice and you guys pay a very high "weather tax", both financially and socially, to live in those states. Don't complain when we point it out to you. Just because you have chosen to sell your social rights in order to have nice weather and scenery it doesn't give you the right to complain about others complaining about your situation. I love California. I CHOOSE not to live there even though about 75% of my industry is there.
ljnowell
Member
C'mon guys, let's stop fighting with each other on this, it's gotten a little out of hand.
Coming from illinois I have heard plenty "just move" comments. I have family and my life here. I would rather work to change it, and we have. Californians want the same thing and I hope they get it too.
As far as California, it's a beautiful state with much going for it. If it weren't for the gun laws and taxes I would love to live there. Maybe one day if it changes. I won't knock it though, as people here undoubtably love their state and they deserve too, it's theirs.
Coming from illinois I have heard plenty "just move" comments. I have family and my life here. I would rather work to change it, and we have. Californians want the same thing and I hope they get it too.
As far as California, it's a beautiful state with much going for it. If it weren't for the gun laws and taxes I would love to live there. Maybe one day if it changes. I won't knock it though, as people here undoubtably love their state and they deserve too, it's theirs.
Prince Yamato
Member
"Just Move"
I love this line. "Hey honey, I'm quitting my job, selling our house, leaving our friends and family, and going on unemployment just so I can buy an AR-15 and a couple 30 round mags."
If you already have an established occupation that pays well and supports your family; if you already have family going back a generation in a particular area; guess what? You aren't moving.
If you're in the process of job hunting and just starting out/starting over, yes, you can move to a "free state". Texas is great for tech jobs, but you know what? Sometimes you get transferred. Lots of companies have headquarters in LA, San Francisco, and NYC. You don't say, "no" to a promotion. To most people, you look like a fool to turn down a multi-hundred thousand dollar job in any of those cities.
California has terrible gun laws but a great tech-based economy. Outside of silicon valley, it has wine-country. Outside of that, it has Hollywood. Outside of that... it's economy is terrible.
There's also culture.
Not every gun owner relishes hunting with his buddies in mossy oak. Lots of younger gun owners- myself included- are very city oriented. You give up a lot in terms of culture, food, higher-education, and the arts when you move to smaller towns (university towns excepted). Yeah, let me give up local culture so I can open carry my 1911 to the one local hardware store in town to listen to Jim-Bob complain about Chemtrails.
Fight hard for old SC folks. That's where the big population center is. Those are the minds you can win over. If you can't entrench yourself in academia, see if you can be a guest speaker at a local college and speak about the 2nd Amendment. That's how you'll win folks over.
Running, "just moving out of there," that's how you lose.
I love this line. "Hey honey, I'm quitting my job, selling our house, leaving our friends and family, and going on unemployment just so I can buy an AR-15 and a couple 30 round mags."
If you already have an established occupation that pays well and supports your family; if you already have family going back a generation in a particular area; guess what? You aren't moving.
If you're in the process of job hunting and just starting out/starting over, yes, you can move to a "free state". Texas is great for tech jobs, but you know what? Sometimes you get transferred. Lots of companies have headquarters in LA, San Francisco, and NYC. You don't say, "no" to a promotion. To most people, you look like a fool to turn down a multi-hundred thousand dollar job in any of those cities.
California has terrible gun laws but a great tech-based economy. Outside of silicon valley, it has wine-country. Outside of that, it has Hollywood. Outside of that... it's economy is terrible.
There's also culture.
Not every gun owner relishes hunting with his buddies in mossy oak. Lots of younger gun owners- myself included- are very city oriented. You give up a lot in terms of culture, food, higher-education, and the arts when you move to smaller towns (university towns excepted). Yeah, let me give up local culture so I can open carry my 1911 to the one local hardware store in town to listen to Jim-Bob complain about Chemtrails.
Fight hard for old SC folks. That's where the big population center is. Those are the minds you can win over. If you can't entrench yourself in academia, see if you can be a guest speaker at a local college and speak about the 2nd Amendment. That's how you'll win folks over.
Running, "just moving out of there," that's how you lose.
This one has pretty much run its course and gone way off topic.
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