Lead fouling and the cylinder gap

Tallinar

Tallinar

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So, this question is purely academic, and probably has no practical bearing, but I'm curious anyway.

I had a thought as I was cleaning my Single Ten the other day after putting several hundred lead rounds through it without a thorough cleaning (I often just do a superficial cleaning with a CLP after a short range trip, and only break out the Hoppe's periodically to clean several guns at once).

As lead splatter occurs when shooting a revolver, and lead fouling begins to accumulate on the face of the cylinder over many, many rounds, the cylinder gap -- at least conceptually -- begins to "shrink" due to the added material. Does this mean that with enough shooting and not cleaning the face of your cylinder, lead fouling could conceptually increase the relative velocity of subsequent rounds fired from a revolver?

I feel like a kid trying to make an argument to his mother why he shouldn't wash behind his ears. :)

IMG_2227.jpeg
 
@tellinar
After my post #2, I felt so bad that I just scrubbed down my Dan Wesson revolver (which builds up lead since I primarily shoot wadcutters)...Sorry but too lazy to check velocity before and after. Let us know what you find out.
PS: also scrubbed down 4 others I have been shooting for the last month (I am not an old Army or Marine who was taught to clean after every shooting event.)
PPS: retired Air Force and we had maintenance crews to clean up after us. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
I have no basis in experience with this but, I'm strongly feeling this would be a self limiting situation.

I envision fouling building up to a certain point and then being blown free from the cylinder/barrel face with subsequent use.

Would be an interesting opportunity for experimenting...;)
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Not an old Soldier or Marine either, but wow, I clean my firearms after shooting them every time.
Click to expand...
There is a school of thought that excessive cleaning causes excessive wear and competition shooters (many) prefer to shoot the season before cleaning.
PS: I am just lazy and haven't seen any corrosion or accuracy issues with my 1 to 2 month cleaning after shooting. But FFIW, I live in a mild climate and keep firearms in a humidity controlled safe.
YMMV
 
Had a new S&W 22lr revolver, K22, M17 that had a .002" gap on 2 chambers. High spots on front of the cylinder.
As it got dirty, the cylinder would bind on the barrel & keep the cylinder from turning. Had my gunsmith face off the front of the 2 high spots, to match other chambers.

Gap should be .004" minimum.

With no gap, there had to be an increase in velocity. My guess.
 
There may be enough buildup to make the cylinder rub the cone, but lead is soft and the ignition flame/blast with vaporize some of it, and melt and blow away some more of it, so it probably would reach a state of "equilibrium" and stop building up past a certain point. In any case, doubtful it would give much of a velocity increase.
 
There may be enough buildup to make the cylinder rub the cone, but lead is soft and the ignition flame/blast with vaporize some of it, and melt and blow away some more of it, so it probably would reach a state of "equilibrium" and stop building up past a certain point. In any case, doubtful it would give much of a velocity increase.
 
Using the M95 Nagant revolver as an example, I know that the velocity difference between the cartridges that completely seal the chamber, and shorter cartridges that don't, there isn't a very big velocity drop or gain. It's been measured but I don't remember what it is. One thing that I've never seen mentioned though, in that case, is that even with short brass that does not seal off the chamber (does not enter the forcing cone) The face of the cylinder is still being pushed up against the forcing cone, which results in no cylinder to barrel gap. So I think that kind of skews the results. As far as the difference between a .004" gap and almost no gap due to lead build up, I'm betting the SD would be greater than any gain from the lead build up. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. For now. :)

I've noticed recently that when firing short cartridge cases in my M95, such as .32acp through the .32acp cylinder, there is hardly any fouling or evidence of blow-by on the face of the cylinder. Again, the cylinder is pressed up against the barrel when fired, regardless of the length of the cartridge case.

An interesting experiment would be to start off with a revolver with no gap, cylinder right up against the forcing cone/end of barrel, chronograph it, then face the barrel off at .002" gap, .004", .006", .008", etc. and see what the drop is for each step, and see if the drop remains constant as you go. ?
 
Cant say about the velocity thing, but I can tell you that with some guns, the accumulation of lead and fouling on the face of the cylinder will certainly affect function.
 
The problem I've noticed on other revolvers (not mine, unless I just bought it used) is the lead that seems to be deposited evenly isn't really. When you reach the point of cylinder drag, you'll probably first notice that two particular chambers will no longer cycle cycle properly. You shouldn't let things reach that point IMO.

My method for cleaning the front of a revolver cylinder is to start by applying some Flitz paste on a Q-Tip, and after rubbing that in and allowing it to sit for a couple minutes I give it a scrub with an old plastic toothbrush, followed with Hoppes #9. If that doesn't do it, lead solvent is next. The toothbrush bristles shouldn't abrade hardened steel, but there may be some particulates in the gunk that might work as mild abrasives -- I prefer to rely on chemistry more than muscle. If you scrub hard enough to remove bluing, you're definitely doing it wrong. Also, if you clean after every session, the fouling and lead build up doesn't and it doesn't become a chore.
 
Side Note:
Whenever I clean my revolvers before I put them away I wipe them all down with a silicone rag and I always wipe the entire cylinder face.
After shooting I do the same thing until I can do a proper cleaning and I always make sure to wipe down the cylinder face of the dirty gun.
I swear it alleviates carbon and lead buildup.
It makes it easier to clean the gun and cylinder too.

Now, if you don’t bother with your cylinder face that’s just fine by me. You do what you do.
 
This subject is something that has never occured to me. I have an old single six that had a huge number of round fired in it and wasn't religious about cleaning every weekend either. I just gave the front of the cylinder a good wipe down with a coarse cloth and Hoppes #9 now and then and it has never had a problem. That and a paste wax job now and then have kept it rust free and working just like new all these years.

After reading the OP a thought occurred to me. Yes, I still manage to have one now and then. Copper Chore Boy strands wrapped around a bronze brush is an excellent lead remover in barrels. I have never felt a need but if lead build up on the front of a cylinder is a problem wouldn't a Chore Boy pad remove it easily?
 
I think your gun is going to tell you if leading, cylinder dragging, and function problems because of it are an issue. Ive had a few Rugers over the years that would quickly foul when shooting lead bullets, and to the point where the cylinder would hang up and the hammer was about impossible to pull back trying to cock them. They had to go back to Ruger and get things addressed, and they took care of it.

Most of the revolvers I shoot are S&W's, and Ive never had an issue with any of them. Regardless of what the gun is, I do clean after every outing too, so its not likely going to be an issue either, barring something mechanical or out of spec. I know a lot of people think its a waste of time to clean the face of the cylinder, but I just see it as a part of cleaning the gun and no big deal.
 
What's everyone's definition of "clean the cylinder face"?

I wipe it with a patch soaked in Hoppes and call it a day; much like I'd wipe the frame or topstrap near the barrel/cylinder gap or muzzle.

I don't scrub or use copper/brass brushes, I just wipe the "loose" fouling off.

I used to scrub the cylinder face with a copper or brass brush and, for a couple of years, use Birchwood Casey lead remover cloth (DO NOT use on blued firearms; mine were/are all stainless) but decided it was not worth it.
 
Whether there's a velocity difference, I can't say, but will opine that it makes virtually zero difference on target. I will say that, for tight cylinder gap guns, less than the 0.004" mentioned by Dave Del, any buildup has the potential for interfering with cylinder rotation...

To that end, I clean after every shooting session, no matter what the duration: the cylinder face gets a toothbrush of Kroil worked in, then a good wipe down...same with the forcing cone innards and face....same with the bore after a brush though with a bronze brush and the whole surface gets a wipe down with CLP or Kroil. I also spend a little time with a narrow toothbrush under the ejector star as that's a potential trouble spot for rotation. All of this takes, at a guess, 3 minutes, max.

The Kroil treatment works well for minimizing lead adherence problems. The above regimen applies to all my guns, long or short. Best regards, Rod
 
I couldn't answer that question because, Well, Because no part of my guns have ever looked like that.
The way "I" see it.
Well, better not go there.
But, If my gun looked like that I surely would be to dang ashamed to hold it up so the world could see.
Just me.
 
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