battlehatch
Member
Is it legal to own/use/purchase riot control rounds if you aren't LEO in CA?
Legality of rubber buckshot/slugs in CA?
- Thread starter battlehatch
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telomerase
Member
Just load with organic soybeans 
Actually I'd like to know if any state bans rubber buckshot. Or beans.
Actually I'd like to know if any state bans rubber buckshot. Or beans.
dfariswheel
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The problem with rubber slugs and shot is, in most states the law considers them to be "Shooting Someone".
It doesn't matter if the shell is filled with a Magnum load of lead buckshot, rubber shot, or a load of feathers, you've still fired a gun at someone.
For that reason, if you're legally OK to fire the gun, it doesn't matter if it's fatal or not as far as the law is concerned.
Fire a "less lethal" load at someone and as far as the law is concerned you BETTER have been in a literal life or death situation.
For this reason, there is no possible purpose for the use of "less lethal" ammo other than a VERY misplaced idea of "giving a felon a break".
"Less lethal" ammo OFTEN fails to stop the felon, and also often can kill.
This is why even the police won't use any type of "less lethal" ammo unless the officer is WELL covered by other police armed with LETHAL ammo to back him up if/when it fails.
The use of any "less lethal" ammo like rubber loads is pretty well guaranteed to get you:
A. Killed.
B. Charged with a felony crime.
C. Sued for everything you have in a civil suit.
D. BOTH B and C.
It doesn't matter if the shell is filled with a Magnum load of lead buckshot, rubber shot, or a load of feathers, you've still fired a gun at someone.
For that reason, if you're legally OK to fire the gun, it doesn't matter if it's fatal or not as far as the law is concerned.
Fire a "less lethal" load at someone and as far as the law is concerned you BETTER have been in a literal life or death situation.
For this reason, there is no possible purpose for the use of "less lethal" ammo other than a VERY misplaced idea of "giving a felon a break".
"Less lethal" ammo OFTEN fails to stop the felon, and also often can kill.
This is why even the police won't use any type of "less lethal" ammo unless the officer is WELL covered by other police armed with LETHAL ammo to back him up if/when it fails.
The use of any "less lethal" ammo like rubber loads is pretty well guaranteed to get you:
A. Killed.
B. Charged with a felony crime.
C. Sued for everything you have in a civil suit.
D. BOTH B and C.
Robo_Railer
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Vendors generally won't ship something to a certain state or other locale if it's illegal in that jurisdiction, and they make that clear right up front. CA, MA, and NYC immediately come to mind. If it can't be shipped there, it's probably not something you would want to have in your possession.
But as mentioned earlier, stick with the old "don't line up the muzzle with anyone's anatomy unless you're planning to shoot and would be justified in killing that person."
But as mentioned earlier, stick with the old "don't line up the muzzle with anyone's anatomy unless you're planning to shoot and would be justified in killing that person."
battlehatch
Member
Well I am not buying them to shoot at someone, I just want a couple to look cool on the side saddle of my 500.
Robo_Railer
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Oh, well, that'd be okay, especially if you can get the ones with the loads shaped like little bombs. Sometimes ya don't have to even chamber a round, if the bad guy thinks he could get vaporized.
Prince Yamato
Member
[rant] "Less Lethal" ammo is pointless. It's a liberal invention so that stupid hippy protesters get to live another day to be poopsticks on America's streets. You want something cool in your saddlebags, grab some Flechettes. 
[/rant]
[/rant]battlehatch
Member
Good call, Robo. P.s. where can I get some flechettes? Actually, aren't those illegal?
Ed Ames
Member
Flechettes are specifically illegal in CA. "Less lethal" ammo is not. The "letter from attorney general" thing is typical non-Californian ignorance of CA laws.
California gun laws are complex, but no where near as burdensom as those found in Illinois or anywhere in the northeast. No special cards to buy ammo, no special permit for each and every gun we buy, no special permit just to take our guns to the shooting range. The laws here are complex because the pro-gun interests have had at least some say in crafting the laws, and so they allow a great deal that a simple law like "no handgun sales" (D.C.) would forbid.
California gun laws are complex, but no where near as burdensom as those found in Illinois or anywhere in the northeast. No special cards to buy ammo, no special permit for each and every gun we buy, no special permit just to take our guns to the shooting range. The laws here are complex because the pro-gun interests have had at least some say in crafting the laws, and so they allow a great deal that a simple law like "no handgun sales" (D.C.) would forbid.
Prince Yamato
Member
aww Crapola, I didn't see that you were from CA... sorry 'bout that.
Robo_Railer
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Does take some of the fun out of it, doesn't it?
I was reminded tonight of the time (thirty-some years ago) I was giving one of the training NCOs a ride from the building where the Security armory was, down to the building where our classroom training was held. We were hauling an M60 machine gun and an M16 with a grenade launcher (one of the early ones, XM148, IIRC), so a pickup truck was handy. Might've had some dummy ammo and other "accessories," too.
On the way, we were discussing 40mm rounds, and he said something about "In (somewhere in SEA; Thailand or RVN), we had some with like a bunch of nails in 'em." I replied, "Yeah, flechette." He retorted, "No, really!" I realized he thought I was telling him he was "full of (it)." I said, "No, that's the name of it, flechette. I think it means 'little arrows'."
We got the goodies to the Training Section without further incident.
I was reminded tonight of the time (thirty-some years ago) I was giving one of the training NCOs a ride from the building where the Security armory was, down to the building where our classroom training was held. We were hauling an M60 machine gun and an M16 with a grenade launcher (one of the early ones, XM148, IIRC), so a pickup truck was handy. Might've had some dummy ammo and other "accessories," too.
On the way, we were discussing 40mm rounds, and he said something about "In (somewhere in SEA; Thailand or RVN), we had some with like a bunch of nails in 'em." I replied, "Yeah, flechette." He retorted, "No, really!" I realized he thought I was telling him he was "full of (it)."
I said, "No, that's the name of it, flechette. I think it means 'little arrows'."We got the goodies to the Training Section without further incident.
culpritish
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Quote by Robo Railer:
I hasten to add that catalouges like Dumber-Than-Dirt, excuse me, Cheaper-Than-Dirt, and several other catalouges as well, routinely label items "not for sale/no ship to Ca,Il,Ha" ect., that are entirely legal to own, and ship to California. I used to think this meant tht they were,in fact illegal, but I was wrong. I have since learned not to judge the legality on something based on catalouge information.
coelacanth
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I gotta' mark the calendar. . . . .
This is the first time I ever read a post from dfariswheel that I have any significant disagreement with. I find the Fiocchi rubber buckshot to be inordinately useful for discouraging stray animals from feasting on my livestock and garden goodies. They also have the useful trait of not penetrating interior walls in dwellings like apartment complexes. I agree that it may be a point of conjecture whether a facefull of rubber shot would actually serve as well as a load of No. 4 buckshot but I don't have any desire to kill anyone - BG's included - if I can avoid it. I find the rubber buckshot to be an acceptable risk when my butt is on the line because the backup is a Smith & Wesson revolver loaded with the real thing. Any day I don't have police drawing chalk lines on my property is a good day.
This is the first time I ever read a post from dfariswheel that I have any significant disagreement with. I find the Fiocchi rubber buckshot to be inordinately useful for discouraging stray animals from feasting on my livestock and garden goodies. They also have the useful trait of not penetrating interior walls in dwellings like apartment complexes. I agree that it may be a point of conjecture whether a facefull of rubber shot would actually serve as well as a load of No. 4 buckshot but I don't have any desire to kill anyone - BG's included - if I can avoid it. I find the rubber buckshot to be an acceptable risk when my butt is on the line because the backup is a Smith & Wesson revolver loaded with the real thing. Any day I don't have police drawing chalk lines on my property is a good day.
Zach S
Member
Use of a firearm (possibly even a toy gun) loaded or not, is considered deadly force.
If I feel the need to use deadly force, i'm going to use deadly force. If I feel the need to use a LTL round, than deadly force isnt needed.
I agree, some look cool. But to keep one (or more) in the side-saddle of my 590 I would have to give up one (or more) of 4 rounds of 00B and/or two 12oz slugs.
JMO. I dont mean to sound like a jerk.
If I feel the need to use deadly force, i'm going to use deadly force. If I feel the need to use a LTL round, than deadly force isnt needed.
I agree, some look cool. But to keep one (or more) in the side-saddle of my 590 I would have to give up one (or more) of 4 rounds of 00B and/or two 12oz slugs.
JMO. I dont mean to sound like a jerk.
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