Levers vs bolts

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Warren

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Do lever actions and bolt actions have different applications?

What are lever actions better at than bolt actions and vice-versa?

I have even less experience with long arms than I do handguns so I apologize for what must be a dumb question.

Also, who makes a good Lever 30-06?
 
lever guns are generally faster to operate, and you can chamber another shot without losing your sight picture (hard to do while standing with a bolt gun)

also, lever guns generally shoot shorter range rounds. i use my marlin 45/70 guide gun for hunting in brush (where i wont get over a 100 yrd shot anyhow)

i think some of the rounds that lever guns use dont work very well in bolt guns. and i know that most bolt gun calibers wont work well in lever guns (pointy bullets in tube mags are a bad idea)

the only lever gun i can think of that may have come in 30-06 was the savage 99. (and to be honest, im not sure it was ever chambered for that round - pretty sure you can get it in 308 though)

bolt guns generally are more accurate, course it does depend on the rifles.

i like em both.

:D
 
I'm only going to be able to afford one or the other for the near future so I am looking to maximize my utility.

Good range, accuracy, cartridge and so forth. I'll buy a basic gun and a great scope per the posts I have read on THR.
 
IMHO:
1) Levers look better.
2) Bolts by design offer better precision accuracy.
3) Average person can cycle a lever faster than a bolt.
4) Tube-fed levers offer greater magazine capacity.
5) Lefties can shoot levers. No need to look for left-hand bolt. In fact, levers
with traditional load gates can be reloaded FASTER by lefties.
6) Most bolt guns have stronger actions and can sustain pressures that
would blow apart a lever.

The only lever action lever gun I know of still being manufacturered in 30.06 is maybe a Browning BLR...but it uses a detachable magazine and not a tube magazine like the "cowboy" levers. I use a lever for everything except elk hunting where I need more range and accuracy.

If you're looking for one rifle...hmmm...maybe you can get the best of both worlds and find a nice Savage 99 or Winchester 88. I'd sell any of my bolt guns for a nice 99 or 88.....Did I mention at the beginning of this post that I like levers more than bolts?
 
Lever guns were the assault rifles of their day. Bolt guns make better battle rifles or sniper rifles.

Usually they have a pistol caliber or intermediate rifle caliber, they can have a higher rate of fire than a bolt (and much higher than the breach loaders they replaced), and modern levers can usually be topped off with a round in the chamber.

Bolt guns are usually of simpler construction, are easier to make extremely accurate (mainly because usually no tube magazine is hanging off the barrel and they usually have a one piece stock) and they can be made to handle more powerful calibers.
 
Let's talk receivers. Strip a receiver to a lever gun and look at it from the top. Essentially you have a "U" and if the barrel was left on, it would look like a tuning fork. That giant tuning fork houses the bolt, feed mechanism, lever and other parts (trigger, hammer, etc.). That's a lot of moving parts that must work within the receiver. Because of it, lever actions will rattle more than a bolt gun and have larger groups. When they get worn, their levers may not stay in position (the old Win lever actions at San Quentin were so worn from their actions being functioned that by the time they were retired, the levers would hang down from the action).

The ideal bolt gun receiver is a metal tube. It allows for minimal machining and is less costly to manufacture. The trigger mechanism is apart from it and attached to the bottom. Unlike the magazine which is suspended from the barrel (in most lever actions), most bolt guns have an internal box magazine that is below the receiver. Thus the bolt gun tends to have fewer parts and more consistent harmonics. This is why the bolt gun generally is the choice for sniper and target rifles.

Lever actions had a very short reign in the military field. The Turks used them to good effects against the Russians in Plevna along with their longer range single shot rolling block Remington rifles. They commenced fire against the Russians with the Remingtons and when the Russians closed the distance, the Turks pulled their surprise and exchanged the Remingtons for magazine lever action Winchesters. Right when the Russian weight in numbers should have worked to their advantage, the Turks gunned them down at close range with their Winchesters. Opps. The Russians won the war partially by laying siege and starving the Turks out.
 
The Browning Lever Action (BLR) is available in .30-06 and 7mm Mag.

I like a lever gun as a saddle gun -- and my favorite is the 94 Winchester in .30-30 (although I wouldn't spit on your shoes if you offered me a Savage 99 in .300 Savage, .308 Winchester, or .358 Winchester.)

I kept a .30-30 on my saddle all the time when we ran cattle on the ranch, and killed a shipload of deer with it, just riding up on them while hunting cattle in the backwoods.

I still keep a .30-30 handy, and like to have it with me during deer season whenever I'm riding.

In my humble opinion, receiver sights and lever actions are a marriage made in heaven -- compact and accurate. I'd think long and hard about scoping a lever action. I think if you need a scope, put it on a good bolt action.
 
I think we pretty much got 'em all out there:

Savage 99, .300 Savage -- a very good choice
Win 88 -- believe it's only .308-length ctgs, could be wrong
BLR definitely comes in .30-06
Win 95 originals and some Browning/USRAC repros were .30-06

The Win 88s seem to have shot up to near-collector prices at local shows, may be different where you are.

There was an article a year or two ago in American Rifleman that had time and accuracy figures for bolts, levers, pumps and semis. The bolt rifles were surprisingly competitive with the levers on a combined accuracy/time basis.
 
The real advantage of bolts over levers in my opinion is price. A good Mosin nagant can be had for $60, with Mausers following at $100 and up. A good lever will cost you at least $400. Also, surplus ammo for those surplus bolts is extremely cheap, both in 8mm and 7.62x54R. 30-30 is kind of expensive, and it is the only real .30 cal you are going to see in a tube-fed lever. Note that I said tube fed.

Also, bolts are much easier to scope I am told. Levers are better for SHTF and short range stuff, while bolts are for 200m+ hunting, and the like. Bolts are more accurate, both because of the cartridges they use and because of the fact that tube-fed (again, note the tube-fed) levers cannot use pointed-tip ammo. Think about it, in a tube the sharp point of a round would be right at the end of another cartridge's back end. Not good.

I think the only advantages of a lever are a much faster rate of fire without taking your eyes off the sights and the simplicity and ease of use. A very formidable WWIII attack of the killer irradiated zombies kind of gun. Oh, and you can use your revolver ammo in your .357 lever, which is always nice:D

What are you going to do with this gun? That is the question everyone asks in the 'what rifle should I buy' thread. Its like a car, you buy it to fill a void, whether it be hunting, plinking, action shooting, or collecting. I wouldn't buy a sportscar to transport a family of 6 to and from school, nor would I drag race with my pimpin Honda Odyssey. Purpose is everything.

My advice? Ask questions. Lots of em. Only bolt I ever shot was a .22 single shot, and I have never actually even seen a lever action rifle. Do some research, but take it all cum grano salis.
 
"Reserve not yet met"... and the "Buy it now price" is over $250 (after S&H) and it's not a new rifle.

I'm trying to win the intellectual battle over my emotions... I lust after a lever for no rational reason. Some part of me still wants to be a cowboy I guess. Most of the lever's advantages are cosmetic and incidental (shorter? you can cut a bolt down- faster? well, not really; etc); whereas the bolt action's advantages are significant (more simple, accurate, robust, powerful, inexpensive, etc). Yet all that doesn't stop the yearning! Make it stop!!!
 
if a lever is what you want, then you better get it. it won't matter how great your bolt is, you won't be satisfied w/ it because you'll still be wishing you had the lever...

myself, i have very limited use for a lever. much prefer boltguns.
 
I have a weak spot for lever guns....excluding auto loaders my collection is split 50-50 bolt vs lever.

Levers are more facilitating for ambidextrous use than a bolt.
Bolts allow use of a wider range of bullets. (Savage 99 an exception) Perhaps I should say tube fed levers are not condusive to pointed bullets.

I can work a lever faster than a bolt, that may be due to practice though.

Looks, nastalgia, personal preference? Maybe I just like levers.

Smoke
 
I had a hankering for a lever a couple months ago, so I bought one. It is my first centerfire rifle. I have no regrets. Marlin 336C in .30-30.
 
The major advantage of a bolt over a lever is accuracy. For a new guy who is looking to maximize utility a scoped(2.5x-8x), bolt action is the one for you. Especially in .30-06 or .308. You'll be able to hunt any game in North America from ground hogs to big bears by changing ammo and sighting in for each load.
The Browning lever action comes in 13 calibres including .30-06. It lists starting at $731 USD. Not cheap.
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=003B&cat_id=034&type_id=006
Have a look at the Savage 'Package Series'. Gives you the best out of the box accuracy available with a scope and lists at $518 USD. The 110GXP3 is the .30-06. The 10GXP3 comes in .308.
http://www.savagearms.com/centerfire_home.htm
 
Thank you everybody.

I was looking at a lever because they are so cool looking and have that nostaligic thing happening.

I will buy one after I get a bolt action though.


Sunray, that GXP3 looks great. Which caliber is better?
 
"...that nostalgia thing..."

Dunno 'bout you, but Mausers and near-Mausers (like the pre-64 Winchester 70 and the M1903 rifle) give me a bit of a nostaliga trip, too.

Actually, the real Mauser designs are basically of the same vintage as JMB's Win 86-92-94-95 designs (and all current centerfire Marlin levers, which are essentially variations on the Marlin 1893). The flavor of the nostaliga is different, but it's definitely there.
 
It's hard to determine which action is better without knowing what you'll use it for. Unless you have a definite, specific use in mind for your rifle, forget about which works better. Buy the one you like the most.

If you think that leverguns are cool and have a certain nostalgia, then buy one. Personally, I like old U.S. military rifles. I wouldn't give up my M1903A3 for the world, even though I have absolutely no practical use for it. I love that rifle.

It sounds like you want a rifle for no reason other than wanting a rifle. That's an excellent reason! So buy the rifle that best serves that purpose; buy the one you like the most.
 
Headless, I will be buying a bolt action .22 for my eldest so that she can compete in the local Rod and Gun Club tourneys but for me I want a rifle that will work if I ever choose to go hunting and would be fun to shoot just in general and if it could also be a SHTF arm that would be gravy on the potatoes.

So instead of limiting myself to consideration of two types of actions I should look at an auto-loader as well.


After reading a bit about the M1A I was wondering if that would be a rifle that could do all that.


I was going to buy an M1 from CMP but why not save up a bit and buy an M1A from a reputable supplier of such? Would this make sense?


JNewall, I'll get there eventually right now I am looking to fill slots in my need categories so that must take precendent over my "I wanna..." whims.
 
You're not going to find one gun that will do everything.

For example, a "fun" gun is not the best for hunting. Or should I say a hunting gun isn't alot of fun?

And a SHTF/EBR (EBR= Evil Black Rifle) will not be well suited to hunting.

The main reason this is true is caliber, not action type. EBRs are not chambered for powerful "hunting" calibers. Rifles that are in these calibers are more expensive to shoot, meaning less plinking time per dollar spent, and less fun. Not to mention recoil, you can shoot a .22LR all day long, but not a .338 Win Mag...

Anyway, what I'm getting at here is you should get one rifle for each job.

Rimfires (.22LR, .22WMR, .17HMR) are great "fun" guns, because they are cheap to feed and won't hurt your shoulder

For a hunting rifle, well what you get depends on what you'll hunt. Are we talking big game, or varmits? Range is another issue, how far will you be shooting? For up close shots, you can't beat a lever gun, but for longer shots, a bolt action would probably be better...

And for SHTF, any number of millitary stlye semi-autos would work well... AKs, SKSs, ARs, M1s, M1 Carbines, M-14s, you get the idea...

If you try to get a "one size fits all" gun, it will only dis-appoint you in the end, and you'll end up getting rid of it...
 
also,

think of it this way.

if the **** ever does hit the fan, there will be plenty of guns to choose from. i'm sure you wont be limited to what you currently own.

in fact, you'd probably be better suited with a good long range bolt gun than an assault weapon. do you really think you can take on a well equiped military force at close range?

anyhow, M1A's are pretty cool, expensive as hell though.

308 bolt guns are incredibly versitile.

i love my 308 bolt gun and my 45/70 lever gun (my 308 gets used a LOT more in general)

get what you want, then justify it.

:D
 
Thank you very much.

Of course explaining that to the wife will be interesting. I had sold her on the idea of a suite of weapons picked for the maximum utility.

She went with my half-baked babble (though it was said in good faith) and now I have to reverse field.

On the up side if it works....more guns!!!!!! :D
 
my two cents...

Bolt actions come in more variety of cartridges and are considered a stronger action for the most part.

Lever actions can come in 3006...I have one a winchester 95: tube fed lever actions are limited to blunt bullets by design.

Bolt actions are faster on follow up shots if you are prone or leaning over something...a lever would get in the way when you try to cycle your action.

A lever action is more traditional and follow up shots seem quicker to me.

I'd decide on the caliber I wanted, and what I wanted to do with the gun...then look at the different styles of guns available - that is, if you want to be practical.

If you really like lever actions though...get one they are fun. I have a 9422 that everyone likes to shoot - even though it's a scoped squirrel gun and I have a marlin .450 on order.

Have fun with whatever your choice is,

L.W.
 
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