LGS rant

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TarDevil

TarDevil

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Daughter got into guns this year, first with a shotgun now shopping for a handgun. I've been steering her toward a revolver because she limpwrists so bad she gets a couple malfunctions every 30 rounds or so shooting my SR9c (I've got 900 rounds through it without a hiccup). We tentatively settled on Taurus 905 (she's dead set on 9mm) with the agreement that she'd keep an open mind toward something in .38 to open up her selections a little. Lately though, she's been thinking about an auto. I told her that MIGHT work so long as she doesn't get anything too light and works on strengthening her wrists and grip. Look for something compact enough to conceal, but with enough weight to absorb some recoil. However, my SR9c wouldn't be characterized as a lightweight and she has issues shooting it.

Off she goes to the LGS, asks for the same guy we've been dealing with (who I've also had the discussion about her weak wrist shooting). He takes her on a totally different tact and she ends up making a deposit on an LC9.

I'm quite concerned about this gun being too light and snappy for her, or getting a stovepipe or FTF when the chips are down.

OK, rant over. Now... what to do?
 
I went through the same routine with a relative of mine.

Remember the old saying about 'You can lead a horse to water'?

W-M
 
TarDevil

Get her a stick (about 12") and tie a string to the middle of it. Then tie a drink bottle full of water to it. Then have her hold the stick with both hands and roll the bottle up then down. This will improve her wrist strength. When she gets used to the water fill it with sand. It is a simple exercise she can do most anywhere.
 
Why would you blame the LGS instead of your daughter? She's the customer here, not you... and she decided she wanted an LC-9. Moreover, if she's old enough to buy a handgun, she's old enough to do her own research and make her own decisions.

So many people here complain that the LGS employees try to talk them into or out of something, and you're complaining that they DIDN'T talk her out of something. Can't have it both ways.
 
It'll probably turn out to be a wise decision by her. I agree though, most anything but a .22 that you're target shooting with needs a fairly firm grip/hold.. in some applications, one approaching a true strangle.
 
Yup -- sounds like it's TRAINING time. Get her to the range and drill her on proper stance and grip. Get her weight forward, good Isosceles stance (it is easier, and better for her, trust me), proper strong hand orientation, proper support hand grip pressure. Show her how to drive that gun (rather than letting it run the show) and she'll have no problems you could blame on "limp-wristing."

While it is possible that she is very weak and unable to properly control the weapon, I dont' believe that's likely the problem. Technique is everything. Show her how to drive the gun and her strength will likely be sufficient.
 
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Unless someone has some major physical illness, I am convinced that most people (men and women) can get used to just about any gun you give them, if their heart and mind are into learning this new 'tool'. The reason I say 'tool' is that the same mindset can be made for people using many various extremely-powerful tools!

The same holds true for many things - back in the 60's, one barely would ever see a woman piloting a motorcycle. Today, nearly half the cyclists I see are women! Same goes for people who get tattoos.:eek:
 
because she limpwrists so bad she gets a couple malfunctions
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I'd bet money her wrests are strong enough to double up her fist and hit you in the mouth hard enough to break some teeth if she got mad enough.

Without her breaking her limp wrest when it folds double on her.

Limp wresting is a lack of mind set and training.
It really has nothing at all to do with "weak" wrests.

rc
 
drsfmd said:
Why would you blame the LGS instead of your daughter?
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He suggested and steered her toward the LC9 after he and I had discussed and agreed that a revolver probably fit her needs somewhat better. However, as many of you said, with training and technique she'll probably be OK.
 
rcmodel said:
Quote:
because she limpwrists so bad she gets a couple malfunctions
I'd bet money her wrests are strong enough to double up her fist and hit you in the mouth hard enough to break some teeth if she got mad enough.

Without her breaking her limp wrest when it folds double on her.

Limp wresting is a lack of mind set and training.
It really has nothing at all to do with "weak" wrests.

rc
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rc, ded somioni swetch thi "i" and "e" kiys on your kiyboard? E hati whin that happins! :D
 
LC9 isn't the best choice. Why does she hold the opinion of the clerk higher than yours?

Proper training will resolve the matter of limp-wristing. But before she gets the training, have her rent and shoot an LC9 before she gets that one out of lay-away.
 
As rcmodel has already posted and I'll support, it isn't a strength problem...and could very well not even be an issue of limp wrist shooting. I've found that over gripping can be more of a problem than many believe.

I often shoot holding a pistol with just my middle finger and floating thumb (not locked on the frame) to show clients that they don't need to strangle the gun with their grip. I've never had the often alluded to problem of a limp wrist malfunction....yes, even with Glocks.

I shoot with a pretty relaxed wrist anyway,...it drive Weaver shooter nuts...but it is a personal experiment and I don't ask clients to shoot that way.

I personally think it is easier to teach a new shooter to shoot well with the LC9 than a revolver the size of a 905 or J-frame. The learning curve is a bit easier and the reload more simple. The LC9 wouldn't be my first choice either, I'm a bit surprised she didn't pick a SR9 or a M&P9 or G19

As Sam1911 posted, it is mostly a training issue. Please get her some instruction utilizing a good Isosceles Thumbs Forward grip and don't have her gripping with her strong thumb or using too much finger on the trigger
 
Tar Devil, I might just not understand the problem correctly... are you trying to suggest that you've demonstrated, explained patiently, corrected, demonstrated again, and patiently explained until you are blue in the face, and your daughter STILL listens to strangers instead of you? Gosh, I just can't imagine ... :rolleyes:

Sometimes I think my own daughter is just going to have to learn things for herself the hard way, and my job will be to pick up the pieces and/ or ruin somebody for making her cry. What can you do? But DO encourage (not to hard or she'll not do it just to show you) lots of training. YOU may not be able to teach her anything, but someone who's not related to her needs to.

rcmodel, I grew up pronouncing 'pin' and 'pen' homophonetically... and English is a horrible language that can't be spelled phonetically. Carry on. :)
 
She did somewhat promise me to try, if possible, to rent the LC9 before she closes the deal.

I do applaud her for doing a lot of online research. She is aware of the trigger issues with the Ruger, and knows she'll need LOTS of range time before she takes her CCW class and qualification. I hope she's happy with her choice.

She told me she had asked about the Shield, but the LGS guy (same one!!!!) told her the Shield didn't have a safety. (Another rant, but I'll leave it for now)

Anyhoo... all the gun stuff has done a lot for our relationship... which I'll always be grateful for.
 
I used to own an LC9. It isn't the softest shooting pistol, and te texture of the grip is AGRESIVE. If she limp wrists now, she will likely do so even worse with that pistol. The grip is not perticularly comforable to place a deathgrip on like you need to. If she does get it, limiit range sessions to 20-25 rounds with it. I found that was all my 5'2" 125 lb wife could handle, and she is a 3 time Pistol Expert in the Navy...so she knows how to shoot. I ended up selling the LC9 and got a S&W M&P Shield in 9mm. We both love it...great trigger, good sights, sight weight, AWESOME ergos and ver y soft shooting. Just a thought...and kudos to you for steering her twords a revolver. If she can learn early to shoot a DA revolver well, she'll be able to shoot anything well.
 
I wouldn't blame the gun shop owner too much since your daughter is an adult and his options are to not sell a gun to her or sell what she insisted on. Unless he lead her away from something that would be a good fit that would work for her he's not to blame.

Was she accurate with your Ruger? Was she comfortable shooting it? Changes in ammunition or a lighter spring can help resolve so-called "limp wristing".

Is there a range with rental guns she can go to and find out what actually fits her and won't be subject to failures? This is pretty important for someone that is just starting out and doesn't already have a lot of experience with a variety of pistols.
 
Did she get to dry fire it a few times before putting that deposit down?

Everybody who has tried my LC9 absolutely hated the trigger.
 
First handgun I bought my daughter was a G26, and she loves it. Prior to her shooting the G26, she'd only shot my Colt Woodsman. I don't believe my daughter's ever experienced a malfunction with her G26, and it isn't because of her strength. Limpwristing is a matter of not letting one's wrists and elbows act like shock absorbers, and there's not a lot of strength required for that...just proper grip, stance and a little discipline. I've seen 250#+ guys' limpwristing, and they had plenty of strength.
 
Curious why this was moved to autoloaders since it's about revolvers vs autos. Oh well...

hso said:
I wouldn't blame the gun shop owner too much since your daughter is an adult and his options are to not sell a gun to her or sell what she insisted on. Unless he lead her away from something that would be a good fit that would work for her he's not to blame.
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That's my contention... that he steered her toward what I feel was a personal preference instead of what was best for her. He sold her on the premise that the LC9 was super light and she would hardly notice carrying it. She had been looking at revolvers, with one open eye toward a carry size auto. I had suggested a few with a bit more weight and grip, such as the Shield (among a few others). Just irritates me that the LGS guy told her the Shield didn't have a safety. Making me question whether she should be dealing with the guy at all. I reiterate... he and I had discussed the issues of her shooting, because...

hso said:
Was she accurate with your Ruger? Was she comfortable shooting it? Changes in ammunition or a lighter spring can help resolve so-called "limp wristing".
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...no, she was all over the place and experienced malfunctions at the rate of 2 every 30 rounds. Oddly, she was able to get on paper with my Colt, but it's a much softer shooting gun. 9mm in a 17 oz gun may induce a flinch, besides the reliability issues.

hso said:
Is there a range with rental guns she can go to and find out what actually fits her and won't be subject to failures? This is pretty important for someone that is just starting out and doesn't already have a lot of experience with a variety of pistols.
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She promised me she would do this. Perhaps we'll all be pleasantly surprised when she shoots it. Or it may give her incentive to look at other guns. Who knows... as everyone has said, she's an adult.

BTW, Glocks (or any gun w/o a safety) are out of the question. She's got a 19 mo son, plans to carry in a thigh holster during the summer and wants that extra layer of safety. Though I am a "safety" guy, I did not influence that preference.
 
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TarDevil said:
Curious why this was moved to autoloaders since it's about revolvers vs autos. Oh well...
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I might have moved it...I'm really not sure, I move a lot of threads and it didn't read as a revolver vs. auto thread. In the OP, there are two sentences about a revolver. One in which you were steering her toward one and another where she tentatively agreed on a revolver, but wanted one in 9mm.

The rest of the OP is about the problems she is having handling pistols and how she chose one you did not approve of because of your concerns that it was too light and snappy. You then close with,"Now... what to do?" I thought you we asking about possible solutions to help her handle the gun she had chosen

she was all over the place and experienced malfunctions at the rate of 2 every 30 rounds. Oddly, she was able to get on paper with my Colt, but it's a much softer shooting gun. 9mm in a 17 oz gun may induce a flinch, besides the reliability issues.
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This does sound like a technique issue...3 oz isn't going to make that much difference. Correct recoil management (not fighting it) has benefits in both accuracy and reliability.

Size of grip compared to hand size and quality of trigger are bigger issues. I think the M&P Shield should have been a good alternative
 
9mmepiphany said:
I might have moved it...I'm really not sure, I move a lot of threads and it didn't read as a revolver vs. auto thread.
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On, no issues. Just curious.

9mmepiphany said:
This does sound like a technique issue...3 oz isn't going to make that much difference. Correct recoil management (not fighting it) has benefits in both accuracy and reliability.

Size of grip compared to hand size and quality of trigger are bigger issues. I think the M&P Shield should have been a good alternative
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I agree, and I'm sure she'll eventually develop the technique. I shoot fairly well, and I'm just not comfortable spending a lot of range time with micro guns. Guess I'm putting myself in her shoes. I just felt her accuracy and speed would be better with a little more heft, plus she'd be more apt to practice if it isn't unpleasant for her.
 
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