List of handgun models that are "Lemons"

[firestar]

These forums are great for advice on what to buy and what not to buy, what are some handguns that are generally considered lemoms? Don't include a gun just because you are the only one that had a problem with it, try to make this a useful consumer list on what to avoid spending your hard earned money on. This doesn't have to totally accurate, I am just looking for the general concenses.

I'll start it off with a few easy ones that I have some idea that people think are lemons and I'll add to it so all the guns are in one spot for people to find easier.
In no particular order:
1. S&W Sigma
2. All Jennings products
3. All Bryco products
4. Taurus PT145 (I think that is the model that is considered bad)
5. AMT Hardballer (all AMT guns)
6. Vector
7. Davis
8. Grendal
9. All Lorcin products
10. Taurus PT-22
11. Kel-Tec P-40
12. All RG revolvers
13. All Talon products
14. All Intratec products esp., Tec-9, AB-10 (same gun)
15. Egyptian Helwan 9mm
16. Para-Ordanance P13 P14
17. Kimber II Series 1911s (poly frame guns only)
18. Rossi Revolvers
19. All Standard Arms products
20. Llama
21. Accu-Tec BL-9

 

[alamo]

Talon - no longer in business, made a P-11 knock-off.

 

[seeker_two]

All Davis/Talon products.

Fortunately, there are more GOOD gun makers than bad nowadays. (Helps make up for Glock production... )








j/k

 

[Marko Kloos]

Anything that says "AMT" on the slide is a 50/50 crap shoot regarding proper function, in my experience.

 

[VHinch]

I think it's also important to remember that you can get a lemon from any manufacturer. Mass production is not perfect, and mistakes do get made. Often times people will classify a particular gun as a lemon without having any experience with it themselves just because it gets a bad reputation from a few people on boards such as this one. While I will certainly agree that no one should ever buy a Jennings, Davis or Bryco, these guns are not so much lemons as they are guns produced for the sole purpose of making the cheapest possible weapon to sell to uninformed consumers. The problems associated with Sigmas were generally limited to the first run of production, and were subsequently corrected by S&W. There are many here including me that have had very good experiences with Sigmas. The Taurus PT-145 was a similar case. There were problems with the first runs until Taurus improved the frame to handle the additional stress produced by the .40 and .45 rounds. As far as AMT goes, I believe they are generally a crapshoot, but there are as many good as bad ones out there. The point of this rant is, anyone propagating rumors about guns they have no firsthand experience with is not helping anyone make an informed decision, but rather making the process more difficult.

Vance

 

[MJRW]

Double up on the Sigma. Specifically the SW380.

S&W Model 19Wondering if anyone will respond faster than Mike Irwin

 

[Jason Demond]

The two Sigmas I own are definitely NOT lemons! Both guns are coming up on 7000 rounds without a problem.

 

[Wildalaska]

Vectors

 

[firestar]

My intent is not to any particular gun but to provide a reasonable list of guns that should be avoided unless you know what you are doing or are prepared to take the risk in buying something with questionable a reputation. Many of us have the time and the money to try out several guns and tell what preforms well but some newbies or people that only have enough money for one gun should have a place to go to where they get a heads up on what to avoid.

Remember, there are new members joining everyday and not all of them are "experts" on guns or keep informed on what is generally considered good and bad in the market. It is no big surprise when I hear that someone just bought a Sigma for $500 because the dealer said they were good guns. They may be good guns but there are some guns that ARE considered lemons and why take a chance when there ARE so many really great guns out there?

 

[Sox]

AMT DAO .380 was a total P.O.S that thing split 3 out of 4 magazines, didn't get through a whole magazine without malfunctioning.

FTL .22 auto nine was a great concept but too unreliable.

 

[dude]

what I've delt with over the years:

Star
AMT
Iver Johnson
Carbon 15

 

[firestar]

"what I've delt with over the years:

Star
AMT
Iver Johnson
Carbon 15"

Not Star! Say it ain't so.

What models?

 

[hksw]

The only guns that I've ever own that where true crap were AMT/IAI 1911s (both long slides, 10 mm and .45 ACP).

 

[JCM298]

Lemon

Grendel: I never got through a magazina w/o a jam,
John

 

[sm]

RG in .38 spl. oh it spit lead...sometimes it would even do it via the bbl

 

[firestar]

I want this to be a list that you could give to a compleat newbie and send them to a gunstore with it and tell them that as long as you stay away from the guns on the list, you should have no problems finding a decent gun.

Trying to stick with newer guns as a lot of problems with C&R or mil-surplus guns have nothing to do with quality but more to do what condition they are in.

 

[bdhawk]

lemons

AMT .45 backup (50 # trigger pull)
davis .380 held a 18" group(?) at ten yards and about a foot to the left and ten inches low.
clerke (revolver timig was so bad that it spit lead back at ya)
standard arms (another kel-tec P11 copy) the recoil springwent flying downrange!!! cannot find it or the plastic plug.

 

[wingman]

Bounty Hunter(EAA) 22/22mag.
The only gun I ever owner that
I considered junk.

 

[Handy]

Interarms US made Walther copies (PPK, TPH, etc.)

 

[alamo]

Scratch #11 of your list. Too many satisfied P-32s owners to be one there. The P-40 pushed the envelope too far on size/weight for that powerful of a round so KT discontinued it 2 years ago. There was a feed ramp problem on some of the early ones that was corrected later by KT. The main reason they were discontinued was that too many got returned that didn't have any problems with them, the users were limpwristing and/or not properly lubricating them. The P-40 has to be held very firmly to function properly. Used ones and the few new ones left out there get snapped out pretty quickly as they are a fine pistol for those who want something that size/weight in .40 and know how to use them.

 

[dude]

not sure of which model Star it was............ but a friend of mine back in Hawaii had one in 9mm that would FTF every 100 rounds or so when we went to the range

 

[arinvolvo]

Intratec Cat9...plastic-not-so-fantastic.

 

[mellow]

LOL, I've never seen that one before. Thanks arinvolvo, I needed a good laugh.

 

[arinvolvo]

No prob...Ive got more, Im sure.....such as the Accutek 9mm...and the rest of the accu tek line for that matter.

 

[foghornl]

Have an RG snubby 38 that shoots ok, but I don't fire it much. and only with lightly loaded 130 Gr or so FMJ ammo. Did seem to have quite a bit of lead buildup around the barrel when I got it.

Absolutely worst POS revo I ever saw was the "Clerke" series. Were available in .22LR and one of the .32 cals, but I don't remember which .32. Shooting buddy had one of the .32's, sent more lead sideways then downrange.