List of handgun models that are "Lemons"

[IrvJr]

I would NOT put the Kimber Series II 1911's in the Lemon Category. I have a Kimber Pro Eclipse II that's great.

I was initially a little leary about the Schwartz type of firing pin safety, but after having shot over 1000 rounds through it, I am very happy with the gun. It's been very reliable and accurate. I prefer it to the Colt XS commander (XS and not XSE) that I used to own.

 

[Berg01]

I would NOT put the Kimber Series II 1911's in the Lemon Category. I have a Kimber Pro Eclipse II that's great.

Kimber Series II 1911's do not belong in the Lemon Category!

At the range I go to, I have seen examples of bad shooting habits with nice Kimber pistols. Limp-wristed shooting, crappy reloads in filthy, unmaintained guns, just to name a few. It is bad enough that I feel qualified to offer these statements;

"Before you go blaming the gun, take a good look at how it is being handled!"

"In competent hands, a well-maintained Kimber Series 11 in good condition, using quality ammo, is a fine piece!"

Now, obviously, Kimber's mass-production methods will produce a few defective units. But a good pistolsmith can correct these defects.

 

[Minute_Of_Torso]

I must be one of the very few who didn't have a bit of problem with a Sigma SW9VE. The only reason I got rid of it was because an acquaintance wanted to trade it with me for a Glock 23.

 

[longeyes]

Ditto the supportive remarks on the Kimber II line series. No way you can tag that gun as a "lemon."

 

[CWL]

Disagree with your list. Sometimes 'cheapo' pistols are all one can afford to protect self & home. A person deserves the right to own a firearm, whatever he/she can afford.

This gets close to snobbery at a certain level.

I have a Paraordnance P13 that is a beaut, even spent money to have Tripp hardchrome it. I think the greatest problem with these is the magazine springs which need regular replacement.

The worst pistol I have ever owned is a NIB Series II Kimber CDP. Kimber quality & QC has dropped considerably.

As for Iver Johnson, I believe that they are the only pistol make to have been used to assassinate TWO US presidents.

 

[Boats]

As a general rule, any Spanish made auto produced in the last 35 years should be on a citrus list. As much as I do not care for Kimbers personally, they are not general lemons like the products of some companies from the aforementioned country that have to rename themselves every so often just to stay in the American firearms market.

 

[valnar]

This may indeed be part of the "snobbery" attitude, but I firmly believe Charles Daly 1911 clones are the bottom of the totem pole.

my 2 cents.

Robert

 

[Boats]

Has anyone mentioned Auto-Ordnance yet?

 

[Jokerman]

Maybe this should be divided into two lists.
1. Lemons- those guns which are never a good idea
and
2. Problem guns- like the Sigma or Kimber II, to which qualifying statements might be made, such as "only the first batch of 'em" or "only with crappy reloads."

There should even be a third category: guns that are not necessarily lemons but no one who knows guns really gets them for some reason or other, (e.g. too small or lightweight for that caliber, not cost effective, ugly as hell, uses second-rate parts, etc).

 

[sm]

firestar:
My thinking is coming from the perspective of a new shooter with budget.

Granted they should have training and have been advised as to platform , gun fit , caliber...etc.

Either they have an offer of a gun in the family, ad in the paper, pushy sales person in the pawn shop or gunstore. No, they didn't bring along a more experience shooter. Money is burning a hole, or can't wait.

Allow me to pick on the RG or Rohm. Looks nice, pretty, price ok , VS say a model 10 with wear. Or the new wonder pistol ata price point the dealer has bought a bunch of , and needs to unload--fast.

IMO, that old worn model 10 is a better gun, can be worked on , trigger smoothed, parts, grips....etc. Not to mention if they shoot the darn thing to practice, it will digest a variety of loads, hold up to shooting.

I ain't new, it ain't cool, and it ain't gonna be outdated in 6 months when the Co. goes belly up.

Yeah a RG if it works may sit in a desk for 20 years, I know of one, it was only $35 ....He shoulda bought the $70 k frame with the bluing worn and the cracked grips...IMO .

 

[sm]

Series II, I know of quite a few that have never missed a lick. I have put thousands of rds through 'em, especially one particular Pro Carry.

Guns are...well... weird. I've seen the sear break on a Kreigoff, the custom $5k 1911 custom gun break a disconnector.

I personally don't have , or will have any 1911 with a safety system, internal or external. But that's my perference, just like I drink strong black coffee...

Lemons are those designs and platforms that have shown through history they don't work, out of business, can't get worked on and/or parts.

Problems, are those whichhave a history, which may include being corrected by mfg. Or History shows that it is not the platform for some uses or shooters.

Opinionated me , doesn't like small semi -auto's ( DAO , DA/SA) guns for ladies, or new shooters. Darn thngs can't have triggers tweaked (reliably) , hard to rack ( heavy springs) sharp and or bite. IME a model 10 or similar is easier to shoot and hit, as is a Pro carry , Tip up Beretta in .380, or BHP. I have seen this with arthritis, carpal tunnel, just plain age. J frames are great...recoil keeps some from practice, bigger gun K frame helps.

Dunno, James Bond might have been cool, but lady/gentlemen/newbie ...you ain't James Bond...cool can, and will, get you dead.

 

[Snowdog]

what are some handguns that are generally considered lemons?

My definition of "lemon" apparently differ from yours. I believe a lemon is a particular specimen of make and model that, otherwise having a solid reputation in general, is an unfortunate exception to the rule.

Example: You buy a Glock 19 and experience accuracy reminiscent of a Davis P380, despite having tried several brands of ammunition.

Though some of the firearm makes listed are of solid reputation, there are many that are complete junk in which this list associates them.

My personal experience with a lemon includes my .40S&W Witness Compact. An ergonomic and attractive pistol with Wonderfinish, it absolutely will not fire the last three rounds in any magazine I've tried. It's been back to the factory on three occasions and nothing has been done to remedy this problem.

 

[EJ]

FWIW--
Had NO problems with
AMT 380 Backup-- Four different units--
AMT Automag II -- 22WMR
AMT Automag V -- 50 AE


Just my experience--

I think the main prob with AMT was in the1911 guns--

 

[blades67]

I've had two Auto-Ordnance 1911A1's, one I bought and the second the factory sent to replace the first. The problem was that the second gun had the same problem the first had. Never again.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Another vote on the Grendel P-10. Total garbage.

Have to disagree on the S&W Sigma. I have a .40 S&W and .380 ACP and both function perfectly.

 

[VHinch]

Frankly, I'm of the opinion that a "complete newbie" as you put it has no business with a semi-auto. By nature they take more practice to be proficient with, and more training to be safe with. Furthermore, anyone who isn't going to put forth the time and effort required to learn to properly use their weapon has no business with any firearm.

As for the Kimber Series II's, the only "problem" I've ever seen with them was that the firing pin safety mechanism gives them somewhat of a rougher trigger than you find on other 1911's. That certainly does not make a gun a lemon.

I would certainly hope that everyone here would at least restrict negative comments to guns that they have actual hands on experience with.

Vance

 

[arinvolvo]

Did anyone mention the pheonix arms stuff? Or the LLAma junk?

 

[firestar]

Llama! How could we forget? I know of at least one Llama that is a total POS.

By Kimber II, I meant the poly framed models only, the ones that were recalled. Someone clarify what the Kimber poly framed guns are called.

This is not my list, it is from what I have gathered at sites like this, it is not perfect but it will be a usefel list on what to avoid if your relatively new to guns. This is not really a "lemon" list so much as a if you don't wanna get taken, don't buy these guns list. I don't agree with all the guns on the list, my dad has a AMT Backup in .45ACP that has NEVER had a jam even with his total lack of respect for keeping it clean. He carries it in his pocket with keys and change and it has only been cleaned or lubed once in many years and that was when my brother did it for him. I don't consider it a lemon even though it has a heavy DA trigger but most people do, so it makes the list. Better to include a few more guns than not enough.

 

[firestar]

As a general rule, any Spanish made auto produced in the last 35 years should be on a citrus list. As much as I do not care for Kimbers personally, they are not general lemons like the products of some companies from the aforementioned country that have to rename themselves every so often just to stay in the American firearms market.

Are you compleatly insane? I have heard some strange things on this site but WOW! What exactly is the problem with Spanish guns? Star and Astra make some guns that will compare to any on the market. I will put up my M-43 Firestar against any gun cheaper than a SIG and I doubt there is a better made pistol for the money.

 

[michiganfan]

My Charles Daly 1911 has been nothing but sweet since I changed to a stronger recoil spring. Well worth the money I paid for it.

 

[Boats]

Are you compleatly insane? I have heard some strange things on this site but WOW! What exactly is the problem with Spanish guns? Star and Astra make some guns that will compare to any on the market. I will put up my M-43 Firestar against any gun cheaper than a SIG and I doubt there is a better made pistol for the money.

Hooked me a big one!!!

I just did exactly what you've been doing in this thread. You set out to paint a lot of functioning firearms with a broad brush of tar, so I exploited your obvious respect for firestars to turn the table, primarily for the Kimber fans. It worked.

See ya.

 

[Robby from Long Island]

Definitely have to disagree with you on Para Ordnance. I have a P14.45 LTD that functions flawlessly.

I know several others who also swear by their Paras. Don't know many people who don't like them except those who don't have one.

 

[Gerald McDonald]

Add Glock to the list, prone to limp wrist, also HK USPs dont feel good, must mean their lemons, Ruger SuperBlackHawk, shot an armadillo with one years ago, shot thru the middle and he just ran off sure sign of a lemon. Had a Colt Python years ago that would bind the cylinder after a couple of hundred 357's with out cleaning, thats gotta mean its a lemon in the first degree. Of course I own a couple of little Rossi 38's, got about 1200 rounds thru them with no problems.

 

[lee n. field]

I've been lucky so far. Of whats gone through my hands only the Jennings .22 and the FIE .38 derringer (derange-er) were totally unreliable crap. They could not be made to be reliable and broke in normal use.

Taurus PT-22 is a step up in quality. It's not reliable, but it's not going to physically break in normal use.

 

[Jim K]

Golly, nobody mentioned my two favorites:

The Rogak (ugh!) and the Colt All-American (all junk) 2000.

Jim