Loading 9mm self-defense load (SIG 124 gr V-CROWN proj.)

[Alex G]

Hello all,
Looking for advice regarding loading 9mm ammo for self defense. So far my planned setup is as follows:

• Hand-sorted matching head stamp SIG once fired nickel 9mm brass, FL sized with a Mighty Armory TNT MATCH die, wet tumbled and inspected again
• CCI SPP
• Accurate #7 Powder (which I’ve found to be very consistent, meters well, fills the case nicely, and is accurate, I know...har har)
• 124 gr SIG V-CROWN projectile (made by Sierra)
• Seated to match factory 124 gr SIG V-CROWN load OAL, and plunk tested on all barrels
• Taper crimped
• Each round case gauged as a final measure of verification
• Perform ladder test of 25 rounds per gradation

I load primarily with a LNL AP, in which AA#7 meters extremely consistently, followed up with a powder cop die as an extra verification. Some suggested hand-trickling each charge, while others say if your powder measure throws to the 10th of a grain each time, you’re fine. Any advice?

 

[joneb]

For a 4" barrel with that bullet #7 should do well at the upper end of the load data. For short barrel 9x19 I have had good result with BE-86 and 124gr bullets.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Hello all,
Looking for advice regarding loading 9mm ammo for self defense. So far my planned setup is as follows:

• Hand-sorted matching head stamp SIG once fired nickel 9mm brass, FL sized with a Mighty Armory TNT MATCH die, wet tumbled and inspected again
• CCI SPP
• Accurate #7 Powder (which I’ve found to be very consistent, meters well, fills the case nicely, and is accurate, I know...har har)
• 124 gr SIG V-CROWN projectile (made by Sierra)
• Seated to match factory 124 gr SIG V-CROWN load OAL, and plunk tested on all barrels
• Taper crimped
• Each round case gauged as a final measure of verification
• Perform ladder test of 25 rounds per gradation

I load primarily with a LNL AP, in which AA#7 meters extremely consistently, followed up with a powder cop die as an extra verification. Some suggested hand-trickling each charge, while others say if your powder measure throws to the 10th of a grain each time, you’re fine. Any advice?
View attachment 975412

are you going to use a chronograph?

 

[9mmepiphany]

I load primarily with a LNL AP, in which AA#7 meters extremely consistently, followed up with a powder cop die as an extra verification. Some suggested hand-trickling each charge, while others say if your powder measure throws to the 10th of a grain each time, you’re fine. Any advice?

First I'll state that I don't believe in carrying reloaded defensive ammo...but that isn't the question.

I've found the LNL powder measure to be very accurate when paired with the Powder Cop die, with just a few simple processes in place. Make sure that the Powder Insert goes all the way to the top of the track, maybe 1/16" short, in the powder measure body when a case is inserted.

Set the O-ring so that it is flush with the top of the die when the charge is correct. Don't reset the Powder Cop on the same charge repeatedly...it compacts the powder. If a charge going through the die isn't quite flush, dump the charge back into the hopper and charge the case again...it doesn't happen that often and is usually a result of inconsistent handle operation

 

[Alex G]

are you going to use a chronograph?

I don’t have one, however I will be loading (ladder test of course) towards the upper end of the data and replicating recoil that I get from the factory loads.

 

[Alex G]

Don't reset the Powder Cop on the same charge repeatedly...it compacts the powder.

A very good point there, and something I discovered when setting it up initially. Also different headstamp brass have slightly different internal case volumes, and this affects it too.

 

[Alex G]

First I'll state that I don't believe in carrying reloaded defensive ammo...but that isn't the question.

Typically I don’t either, but it’s been so ridiculously hard to find, and I’d rather use hand loaded JHP ammo that I loaded to replicate factory as close as I could, vs just carrying FMJ and risk over penetration and not stopping the threat. Running the same bullet and cases as factory V-CROWNS seated to the same OAL, just with my powder. I wish I had a chronograph honestly, but that’s a little over the budget right now unfortunately

 

[Akula69]

I don’t have one, however I will be loading (ladder test of course) towards the upper end of the data and replicating recoil that I get from the factory loads.

I would be hesitant to risk my primary weapon with this comparison. The Speer 147 grain G2 loads I use are definitely at the upper end of the chrono scale for that round, and as you know the 9MM doesn't really kick a lot to begin with. Without a Chronograph I'd start with the lower end of the rated powder load and gradually work up to the middle...watching for pressure signs along the way.

 

[ballman6711]

I’d rather use hand loaded JHP ammo that I loaded to replicate factory as close as I could, vs just carrying FMJ and risk over penetration and not stopping the threat.

Running the same bullet and cases as factory V-CROWNS seated to the same OAL, just with my powder

Since you have no way of knowing what powder the factory uses, replicating factory loads based on recoil alone may prove impossible.

Find a load that's accurate and then test for expansion. If you don't have access to gel, then water jugs will at least give you some idea of performance.

Without a Chronograph I'd start with the lower end of the rated powder load and gradually work up to the middle...watching for pressure signs along the way.

I too would start low and work up (within min/max charge range) until I got my desired results.

chris

 

[Alex G]

I would be hesitant to risk my primary weapon with this comparison. The Speer 147 grain G2 loads I use are definitely at the upper end of the chrono scale for that round, and as you know the 9MM doesn't really kick a lot to begin with. Without a Chronograph I'd start with the lower end of the rated powder load and gradually work up to the middle...watching for pressure signs along the way.

definitely will be doing it that way-starting from just above min charge and working up. I’ve used 124 grain projectiles with AA#7 in the past, and have some feel for loading them and how they shoot. But yes, definitely working up the load, not just starting near max.

 

[Alex G]

Since you have no way of knowing what powder the factory uses, replicating factory loads based on recoil alone may prove impossible.

Very true. AA#7 gives very much more of a “push” in felt recoil compared to the “snap” of quicker powders.
I should’ve clarified as well, I’m looking to match factory V-CROWN velocities, which according to Sierra’s load data (who makes the projectile) that should be easily doable within safe pressure limits. The key part is working up to getting there and seeing what kind of accuracy I get.

 

[lordpaxman]

Seated to match factory 124 gr SIG V-CROWN load OAL, and plunk tested on all barrels

Sounds like you have a plan and I just wanted to mention when I have a new projectile I first determine max and working COL for all guns I’ll shoot it in. That way I’m not surprised (at least by that) when I start testing. Most 9mm SD ammo I’ve measured is relatively short COL compared to my competition loads. I’d also pay attention to the AA data, I know they have the 124 XTP listed at 1.060”, so I’d take that in to account when working up a load. My LNL meter loves AA powder. Good luck.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I don’t have one, however I will be loading (ladder test of course) towards the upper end of the data and replicating recoil that I get from the factory loads.

not trying to tell you what to do, but if you want exactly factory specs and serious about reloading, you need to know what your loads are doing. You have very expensive dies and a meticulous reloading practice, I suggest getting a $80 chron and know exactly what your power factor is

 

[Walkalong]

I don’t have one, however I will be loading (ladder test of course) towards the upper end of the data and replicating recoil that I get from the factory loads.

If you are going to push limits, a chrono, even if you have to borrow one, is Indispensable here. If you don’t/can’t, watch ejected brass more than recoil.

Y’all be careful out there.

 

[jmorris]

I don’t see anything wrong with your plan.

Personally, I’d carry my minor 147 plated RN loads before I’d put something new together and depend on it with my life. I have fired hundreds of thousands of them over many years and know they perform the most important task, run without issue. Much more important than having a load at or above max. There is no PF for SD.

Same thing goes for a new or different firearm.

I understand now might not be the best of times to blast through a few hundred rounds to confirm function but if a gun doesn’t run the best you have is a crummy club.

 

[Alex G]

Most 9mm SD ammo I’ve measured is relatively short COL compared to my competition loads. I’d also pay attention to the AA data, I know they have the 124 XTP listed at 1.060”, so I’d take that in to account when working up a load.

Good point on both accounts! Will keep that in mind as well. Any advantage to seating longer than factory v-crowns, as long as they plunk and feed reliably?

 

[Alex G]

I suggest getting a $80 chron and know exactly what your power factor is

I wish the same, any idea where I can get a chrono for that? Any I’ve seen are $175-200+

 

[Alex G]

I don’t see anything wrong with your plan.

Personally, I’d carry my minor 147 plated RN loads before I’d put something new together and depend on it with my life. I have fired hundreds of thousands of them over many years and know they perform the most important task, run without issue. Much more important than having a load at or above max. There is no PF for SD.

Same thing goes for a new or different firearm.

I understand now might not be the best of times to blast through a few hundred rounds to confirm function but if a gun doesn’t run the best you have is a crummy club.

Definitely good points-both of my carry guns (P226 and HK P30SK) have been very good with a wide range of ammo. I’ve shot factory v-crowns and Hornady critical duty 135+P through both of them with 0 issues, as well as a large quantity of 124 grain plated reloads with AA#7. I think feeding won’t be an issue as long as I mimic factory/what I’ve loaded already. (Interestingly enough, even a minimum charge of AA#7 has reliably cycled both guns without any issues. My thought is that it’s a slower burn rate, it’s “push” recoil is spread out over a longer time duration, and helps give the slide the inertia it needs, compared to a quicker powder like HP-38 or titegroup that expends its energy more quickly upon firing. Just a theory)

 

[jmorris]

If you have more than one 9mm I’d pick an OAL that runs in all of them. I have some pistols that will feed an empty case and some that are quite sensitive to seating depth of JHP’s and shape.

Here is an $88 chrono though.


https://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-720001-Ballistic-Precision-Chronograph/dp/B00HTN5DTE/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA0-6ABhDMARIsAFVdQv9JytyZYqAa9jlggtl7d2GvfWW7ZOJQdrs_jFn3fRrGxytA86FOJJUaAuwaEALw_wcB&hvadid=178130123907&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9026833&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=12291701283714817554&hvtargid=kwd-2680644201&hydadcr=12405_9741668&keywords=prochrono&qid=1612445977&sr=8-2&tag=googhydr-20

 

[Alex G]

For sure-want it to be cross-compatible haha

 

[wankerjake]

If you have published data from Sierra for this bullet you should be just fine. As others have stated felt recoil probably isn’t the best comparison to replicating factory loads but if you have a powder that fits the velocity profile you want then you can use the data (probably upper end) to find the best load and go with that.

If you want to match velocity with factory loads then a chrono is the way to do that. If you just want to work up loads and settle on one that meets accuracy and shoot-ability standards and taking the velocity it gives you then you can very safely do that without a chrono

And your thrower is fine, no need to trickle

 

[WeekendReloader]

Typically I don’t either, but it’s been so ridiculously hard to find, and I’d rather use hand loaded JHP ammo that I loaded to replicate factory as close as I could, vs just carrying FMJ and risk over penetration and not stopping the threat. Running the same bullet and cases as factory V-CROWNS seated to the same OAL, just with my powder. I wish I had a chronograph honestly, but that’s a little over the budget right now unfortunately

I buy factory SD ammo and only shoot a small amount of it each year. It is expensive so I only keep a few boxes of it around. I shot enough of it in the beginning to prove to myself that it is reliable in my gun.
Then, I worked up a load that had the same 'feel' in my gun so I can practice. Different powder. Cheap bullet. It shoots similar and feels similar. Good enough for practice. I've shot a mag of factory rounds after a few mags of my practice ammo and it 'feels' the same.
That's what I do for practice. YMMV

 

[Mark_Mark]

I wish the same, any idea where I can get a chrono for that? Any I’ve seen are $175-200+

^ link for $88 chron, a good one too, and if you shoot it.... well amazon has plenty of money for returns.

just bit the bullet and get one. I waited 2 years to get one and I should have started with one. Saves you money on buring up your factory loads. Chrono the Factory load out of your firearm, 6 sting shot, get the average and standard deviation. Then work your load to match! And BTW, a chron is how real reloader load!

Good luck, and enjoy your day!

 

[lordpaxman]

Any advantage to seating longer than factory v-crowns, as long as they plunk and feed reliably?

None that I know of. I just was pointing out COL will affect pressure and I’m not sure how the XTP and V crown compare in OAL. Just be mindful of seating depth and case fill with the powder you’re going with.

I second the notion of a chrono, it is another tool to at least have some objective data of reloads. The Caldwell is a nice chrono but I first purchased this one - it has a Bluetooth connection to a very nice app which helps when dealing with a lot of test load data:
https://www.opticsplanet.com/competition-electronics-prochrono-dlx-with-bluetooth.html
In any case, let us know how it goes.

 

[Alex G]

If you have published data from Sierra for this bullet you should be just fine. As others have stated felt recoil probably isn’t the best comparison to replicating factory loads but if you have a powder that fits the velocity profile you want then you can use the data (probably upper end) to find the best load and go with that.

If you want to match velocity with factory loads then a chrono is the way to do that. If you just want to work up loads and settle on one that meets accuracy and shoot-ability standards and taking the velocity it gives you then you can very safely do that without a chrono

And your thrower is fine, no need to trickle

yep, Sierra lists the projectile and specs directly in their load data, which is helpful for sure, and AA#7 is one of the best powders they list as far as obtaining decent velocity and not pushing dangerous pressure limits. (If using the Sierra app, you can see a velocity value, controlled by a slider bar. As you move the slider up to increase velocity, many of the other powders drop off at a lower max velocity because of chamber pressure. I will try to show some photos to explain, with min and max loads shown)