Local news story...what would be the best reaction to an approaching armed threat?

[Fred Fuller]

We have essentially two discussions going on here - first, the 'news story' (I use that term advisedly) as reported by various media outlets.

And secondly, the scenario as proposed by ForumSurfer.

First of all, for the rest of this thread let's start differentiating which discussion we're addressing, please.

As far as the actual shooting is concerned, I used to work at Ft. Bragg and still know a good many people in Fayetteville. I spent a good part of the day in town today running errands, and visited my usual haunts (three FFLs and a bookstore) up and down Bragg Blvd. I drove past the spot where this craziness took place twice in visiting these various retailers.

I can state with some authority that as of today, at least as far as I heard and was able to find out, (including from a couple of local LEOs) there was still no clear recitation of exactly what transpired during the crash and subsequent shooting, or explanation for the shooter's motive for doing what he did. The outcome of the incident is pretty clear, but what actually happened and why is not clear - not yet anyway.

And whatever happened, all we have to go on so far are media reports - which might or might not get it right.

So let's be careful...

lpl

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

Not a lot of time to talk to your kids or exit the car. So, get your gun and point it out the window. If that doesn't slow his advance, and you're sure he's got a gun, it's probably time to pull the trigger.

 

[JohnBiltz]

Not sure with the Fayette Cong there had to be a reason.

As far as the actual shooting is concerned, I used to work at Ft. Bragg and still know a good many people in Fayetteville. I spent a good part of the day in town today running errands, and visited my usual haunts (three FFLs and a bookstore) up and down Bragg Blvd. I drove past the spot where this craziness took place twice in visiting these various retailers.

I can state with some authority that as of today, at least as far as I heard and was able to find out, (including from a couple of local LEOs) there was still no clear recitation of exactly what transpired during the crash and subsequent shooting, or explanation for the shooter's motive for doing what he did. The outcome of the incident is pretty clear, but what actually happened and why is not clear - not yet anyway.

 

[Manco]

Unfortunately, what's best to do depends heavily on how the bad guy reacts. I would use Option 1 at first. If he retreats, then stay with it. If he keeps firing and retreats, then use Option 2 to the extent that the terrain allows (and keep moving--back and forth if necessary). If the bad guy keeps firing and advances, then use Option 3 (combined with Option 2 if possible) and shoot him to the ground. Typically this will all happen very quickly, so what you really have to keep foremost in your mind is protecting your children. You have to be pretty decisive, too--whatever you choose to do, whether it's the absolute best tactic or not, choose and do it fast!

 

[zxcvbob]

What side of the car is he approaching? (I assume your side, but maybe he ran around to the left.) It makes a big difference. Somebody mentioned "5:00"

 

[JohnBiltz]

I'd guess most likely it would be drivers side. He's going to get out that side and the cars maybe locked together.

I hate to say it but most times you are probably going to lose if its a deliberate planned attack. Your decision response loop is probably just going to be too far behind his when combined with the disorientation of a car accident. If its road rage in response to the accident you have a decent chance.

 

[JohnBiltz]

The way I see it is there are 3 ways something like this could happen.

Deliberate planned attack.
Road rage resulting from the accident or accident happens and he needs to eliminate witnesses.
Road rage resulting from prior incident and he decides to crash into you and shoot you.

I think all 3 of these are going to go very differently in terms of how much time you are going to have to react and how well prepared and armed he is going to be.

 

[answerguy]

No one in their right mind without malicious intent will exit their vehicle after an accident and approach another driver gun-in-hand.

How about an undercover cop who thinks you are the criminal he's been
looking for ?

No one else sees a problem here with the shoot first ask questions later approach?

I too see that as a problem. But even if I didn't I would have to have lightning fast reflexes to: see the guy, see something in his hand, identify it as a gun, realize the threat, grab my gun and prepare to fire.

Not all attacks can be defended against.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I agree that there is absolutely no room for threats or waiting in this situation. This is a "point and shoot NOW" situation ...

I would have to agree. You just rear-ended my car, and now you are out of your car, gun drawn, approaching me? The only action I'm going to take is to get my Judge out of the holster between my legs on the front of my seat and start sending buckshot in your direction. There simply will not be time for anything else.

If you are an undercover cop, and have not identified yourself ...
1) what gave you the right... or cause, to wreck my car, with my kids inside?
2) you picked the wrong day to be stupid

 

[zxcvbob]

How about an undercover cop who thinks you are the criminal he's been
looking for ?

Why would that matter? Seriously. About all you have time to do (maybe) is grab your gun, open the door a little, reach back and fire. You don't even have time to exit the vehicle.

If it's an undercover cop, his tactics suck.

 

[answerguy]

How about an undercover cop who thinks you are the criminal he's been
looking for ?

Why would that matter? Seriously. About all you have time to do (maybe) is grab your gun, open the door a little, reach back and fire. You don't even
have time to exit the vehicle.

A question was asked, I provided a possible answer.

 

[The Mayor]

My observation is that even the most modern sissified grocery getter would not be incapacitated unless the airbags blew, if that happened, the person in the hitting car would be worse off than the front car, giving you time to react. The photo from the article doesn't show much damage, he should have driven off if he wasn't so trusting in humanity.

 

[ForumSurfer]

My observation is that even the most modern sissified grocery getter would not be incapacitated unless the airbags blew, if that happened, the person in the hitting car would be worse off than the front car, giving you time to react.

I've been in more than one collision in which someone rear ended me or someone I was riding with in which the fuel shut off switch is activated without the air bags deployed. Apparently they calibrate those things pretty lightly.

I've come to the conclusion that the guy (in the scenario, not the actual incident...there isn't enough data to know) is hell bent and determined to shoot. If he jumps out, gun drawn and committed inside of 15 yards...you just don't have time to do anything unless you have a crystal ball and saw it coming ahead of time. 15 yards is too close to assess and react given the circumstances. You're just going to get shot IMO in this scenario. It would take him less than 10 seconds to get out, casually stroll over and start shooting from bumper to bumper distances. It would take a person more time to assess the kids, yourself and get in the fight, if you even had time to realize that there was a fight to get into.

On a side note, it does make me want to buy a shot timer to see how long it does take to unbuckle, exit a vehicle and put 2 rounds center of mass and 1 in the head. at 7-10 yards. I'd be interested to see some times on that. Guess I need to get motivated and start attending some shooting competitions.

 

[zxcvbob]

On a side note, it does make me want to buy a shot timer to see how long it does take to unbuckle, exit a vehicle and put 2 rounds center of mass and 1 in the head. at 7-10 yards. I'd be interested to see some times on that. Guess I need to get motivated and start attending some shooting competitions.

I'm pretty sure you don't have time for that. About all you *might* be able to do, if you realize you need to and can grab the gun fast enough, is to crack open the door, twist and lean out (still in your seatbelt), and fire COM-ish with your right hand -- even if you are a leftie. Even if you miss, maybe he'll decide he's not so determined after all.

I really don't think you even have time to react at all.

 

[txhoghunter]

How about an undercover cop who thinks you are the criminal he's been
looking for ?

I have no LEO training, but I feel that no cop, undercover or not, would approach a vehicle like this. If he is undercover, he will still make it known that he is a LEO and is there to arrest you, most likely using his own driver-side door as cover while he (or she) orders you out of your vehicle. Of course, being that there are children in the car, the officer might feel that their lives are in danger and approach your vehicle for that reason, but I don't see it happening. At least not without announcing clearly as approaching that they are in fact, LEO's.