Long gun for field protection

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Backpacking carry

I think everyone has struggled with the appropriate way to carry while backpacking. This has been VERY frustrating for me. The backpack waist belt interferes with the pistol and holster. I've mounted the hip holster onto the backpack waist belt and that is pretty comfortable for hiking. However, it creates another problem in that the gun is flopping around when you remove the pack to rest. Also, you are without a firearm when walking away from your pack to use the potty, etc. Then you have to move the holster between the pack belt and your trouser belt when not hiking.
Additionally, in an emergency I might be likely to ditch my pack and want the firearm with me.
My solution for the last six months has been to carry my 4" wheel gun in a chest pack. I think it's an Uncle Mikes/Michaels of Oregon. Works well, is comfortable, 45 degree angle, I don't feel the weight, no interference from backpack shoulder straps. Gun can have the benifit of my raincoat in a storm. It also has loops on the backside so I can carry it on a belt if I desire. I highly recommend this solution for carrying a handgun while wearing a backpack. I think the cost was $30.

I've carried a Mossy 500 and Chester 94 in 30-30 in the Sawtooths. I do not like carrying a long gun unless I am hunting but recognize it IS by far a safer solution.
 
My best setup would be something short, relatively light, of moderate power (i.e. not some super ultra magnum), that has good capacity (say, more than 5 rounds) and can be fired repeatedly and quickly. When you're dealing with dangerous game, obviously it seems you'd want as much power as you can get, but power comes at the price of recoil and often, capacity. A buddy of mine passed along a second hand story of a friend of his who was a guide in your part of the country. To make a short story shorter, he emptied his bolt action .300 Win Mag on a charging grizzly and it finally died when it came sliding up in the dirt at his feet. A little too close for my taste! My list of good candidates in no particular order would be:

-Remington 870-18.5" barrel, 6 shot tube, and loaded with 3" Magnum 00 buck

-AK-47-just dump the mag on the griz as fast as you can get back on target-maybe even fix the bayonet??? Ha! Anyway, a nice, short, handy package!

-SOCOM 16 M1a-20 rounds of .308 delivered quickly on target should slow anything down.

-Para FAL-same as above

-and my personal choice: US Rifle, Cal. .30, M1-The Garand...a bit too heavy to be packing around for some, but for me, it'd get the nod.

Also, consider carrying in a three point sling like this:

http://www.rstacticalgear.com/prod_images_large/m16full.jpg

Leaves both hands open and the gun is there where you need it!
 
Oops! Forgot one!

-Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum-Carries 10 rounds in the tube and can be fired rather quickly with practice. Very easy to pack and handy as well. Not my first choice, but a good one nonetheless.
 
Carrying a long gun makes it not a hike. I've met bears up close and spotted cougars (our cabin was marked by a cougar; neighbors' guns made it disappear that night), and I have this take:

Unless hunting, I would carry my .357 revolver -- open or concealed. Maybe wearing bear bells -- I like to see the animals but don't want a cougar jumping on my neck from behind. Animals can be avoided through awareness (except for that cougar jumping down from the rocks).

People may not be avoidable. I prefer to carry concealed. In nervous situations, unzipping a pocket can cause uncertainty in the other party ("What does he have in his pocket?!?!") and putting a hand on the revolver is reassuring. Then everyone can move on.

(I hike Okanogan and Ferry counties, mostly Colville NF. Saw big-horned sheep and moose over the Holidays, but no carnivores.)
 
pair of 41 mag's. 5 or 6 " for you & 3 or 4" for her. same/shared ammo & overlapping fields of fire will go a long way towards stopping ~whatever.
 
The Mosin might be good, but at 9 pounds, not real backpacking friendly. Especially when you folks have been known to shell out an extra $50 for a stove that shaves a few grams off total pack weight.

Shotgun might be best and a single action revolver in 45 Colt for your hip. With the revolver there’s no substitute for practice and even then, unless you’re real special, you’d have to consider it’s use a dicey proposition at best. 357 would be fine for most situations, but I’d prefer a hot-loaded 45 for grizz. The 454 is considerably more powerful, but big recoil and expensive to practice with.
 
Krellor,

Let me see if I can untangle Chuck's two links.

The Rifle for Protection basically says "You don't need a hunting rifle, or a scope, shorter is better. When choosing a caliber, choose something big and slow, not small and fast."

The Shotgun for Protection basically says "Don't use buckshot, use a slug, but realize a slug might be so big and slow. Also, use 3" slugs for grizz. (okay, he says 2 3/4th slugs aren't quite as powerful as a 30-06, so while the width makes them great stoppers, it doesn't make them magical)


Here's the kicker. Rifles/shotguns are much more powerful than handguns, and a shoulder stock makes them much easier to shoot accurately. BUT rifles and shotguns are big and clumsy.

Also, misses don't count, only hits do.

Further: Use the biggest most powerful gun you can handle (read, hit with)

Unfortunatly, more power means more recoil, more recoil makes it harder to shoot well. A miss with a very powerful gun is worht nothing, a hit with a weak gun is worht something.

So you are basically faced with a lot of contradictory info.

Well, not really, you are faced with some hard truths.

the BEST solution would be to buy a novice .22LR revolver, practice practice practice, the buy a 357 revolver, practice with 38 specials, then switch to 357 magnum, then go buy a 44 magnum revolver, practice practice practice. 5 years later you will be ready to handle that 44 mag with ease and accuracy.

Same thing with rifles. Start out with a .22LR, move up to a 22 hornet, then a 243, then a 30-06, then 338 win mag. Once oyu have mastered the 338 win mag, 5 years later, you are ready.

The practicle answer? You may need to dial back down on the power to provide ease of learning and accuracy simply because you don't have the time or resources to do otherwise.

Due to your novice status, i'd suggest a 30-30 lever action carbine. It is short and light, fast handling, repeat shots are quick. It is potent enough for pretty much anythign shy of grizzly. For griz, many many hunters went after griz with 30-30s and lesser guns successfully. True, if I new for sure I was going to go out in the woods and on that specific day I'd be charged by an angry grizz I'd take a 338winmag or a 375 H&H or a 45/70, or I'd just stay home.

staying home is the safest thing. I think a 30-30 levergun is going to give you the next best thing at a reasonable price and a quick learning curve.
 
Also, to give an idea of where I spend a lot of my time most of my trips are in one of 5 places. Yellowstone (eastern shore of Yellowstone lake, gallatin skyline), the blue/wallowa mountains, eastern Alaska, northern BC (typically above the bowron area) and the okanogan. I live in washington state.

Zoogster, thank you for all of the information. I too thought that the versatility of the shotgun made it ideal until I read the above pages contrasting rifles vrs shotguns. I still prefer the idea of a shotgun, but not being a hunter, have never used one to take down game and have no perspective into its actual stopping power. I did used to work at a police station (not a cop, obviously) and one suggested to alterante the rounds in the magazine between slug and 00 shot so I have what I need when I need it.

I am intrigued by your mention of the short barrel shotgun, and was wondering if you could give me an example of one to look up and see if my state has special restrictions or bans on it. As far as planning on killing a particular animal, not really. I just want something for general, last line defense against large predators (cougars, bears, etc...). I don't see myself taking up hunting, so I don't need a gun that is good for those purposes. Anyway, thanks for all of the information.
Click to expand...

First I must apologize for a lot of well meaning individuals giving you lists of thier favorite firearm for that situation and not necessarily what is best or legal for you.
I think a handgun in .454 Casul would be ideal. The .454 allows the use of .45 colt for lighter shooting, and .454 for brown bears if necessary (the .460 allows the use of all 3 but is a little less versatile). If you reload it is even more versatile allowing power ranges anywhere between the two. The Ruger Alaskan was designed for just the role of predator protection and comes in a very compact package for the power.
However you asked for a longarm suggestion so I won't expand on handgun options.

I am tailoring my suggestions to the legality of the places you listed. In Canada long guns such as rifles and shotguns are legaly limited to a capacity of 5 rounds or less. This means many of the benefits of a field rifle are outweighed by those of a shotgun's versatility with the same capacity.
In Canada a shotgun can be quite short without any restrictions. A 12.5" barrel would be great (or 15" so it can hold 5 rounds of 3" ammunition rather than 4). However since you intend to use it in the US as well you need at least an 18" barrel.

Handguns are more difficult to own in Canada, and might be a real pain for a foriegner to bring, however I am not really knowledgable about Canadian gun laws and can let you ask more who are. Handgun capacity in Canada is limited to 10 round magazines, meaning you really want a powerful 5 or 6 shot revolver over an auto in a handgun for large predators.

For a shotgun I am normaly partial to a good solid steel 870 as a well priced workhorse pump gun. However for a gun meant to be carried a lot and fired rarely I would concede a lighter aluminum framed workhorse such as the Mossberg 590, a main competitor of the 870 might be a better choice.
A collapsable stock is ideal. You can have to size of a pistol grip shotgun, but the increased performance of the stock as well. A 3" brenneke type slug is what you want. Foster slugs, the most common type are hollow and do not penetrate well enough for bear use.

So to conform with Canada and US law, 5 round magazine capacity shotgun (for Canada), 18 inch barrel (for the US.)
Mossberg 590 for aluminum reciever weighing in at about a pound less than the better (entire several page threads exist arguing who likes one over the other) 870.
Collapsable stock (make sure it is legal in Canada) to reduce overall length for carry.
Brenneke magnum slugs for increased penetration of deep tissued bears.

That should work for all the destinations you listed except for the national/state park. At those locations it is better for you to be eaten than for an animal to be harmed. Good luck.

P.S. If you can afford multiple long arms, and that is a priority like it is for many here you can custom tailor a better selection for every individual location. However for a general purpose firearm suitable for all those locations my above suggestion should serve you well.
 
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I've backpacked for 35 years
in places where "large predators" live.

I'm still alive.

I'm far more concerned about
human predators than bears.

For 2-legged preds,
the 65 or x42
will do.

Both will fit in
an overnight pack
(or in an OWB on the pack).

Always nearby is an 1894C (.357 mag).
It slings over the shoulder
even with a pack.
 
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Let's remember the point here- DEFENSE - our poster was talking about things that can hurt him or his lady. This means bears, moose,cougars, wolves, dogs,humans. This means power, I.E. rifle or shotgun. The only reason to carry a handgun is if you cannot carry a long-gun.

Regarding AK's, AR15's, pistol caliber carbines, 00 buckshot, etc- You will not get 30 shots off. You may be lucky to get one. On a big bear, the first shot needs to slow it down. This means power. 30.06 rifle power- and up. 12 gauge slug (hard cast) power. Hot loaded 45-70 power. The strength and speed of these animals is simply astounding.

Portability- Just carry it -40,000 years of soldiering and every one of them carried his weapon. No big deal. Find a lighter gun with a profile that fits the hand. If it has a sharp edge, grab a file and file it smooth. The first few days it will be a pain in the ass. After a week you will forget it is there. By the time you get back you will wonder what is missing when you walk to the coffee shop.

And to wash away all the internet BS, look at what the people who do this for a living use- Alaskan Guides, field biologists in the North, Game Wardens, etc. - a highpowered rifle or a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs.
 
how about... one of these.


http://www.wildwestguns.com/Bushwacker/44bushwacker.jpg

a nice .44, great ballistics out of the long barrel, easier to shoot with a shortened stock than a handgun (I would think a stock about 2 inches longer than the one in the pic would be best) Mostly likely fairly light, and could be slung pretty easy no?

Just thinkin,
 
some sort of carbine that you can carry and hit what you aim at
practice practice and more practice
its easier to hit with a carbine than with a handgun
putting a bear down means a big round or lots of smaller rounds
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifles_protection_field.htm gives a good idea of what you want.
30-06 carbine probably what you want they weight 7lb so more recoil when your practicing but several pounds less to carry
given the choice I'd have a cut down g3 for nostalgia sakes:D but thats way more gun than anyone needs and would probably cause all sort of legal image problems
 
If I were one of the lever gun makers, especially an "off" brand, I'd be following the AR/AK pistol scene and making a pistol lever gun just to tackle the Firefly/Gunslinger hogleg market. I seriously don't understand why nobody is selling what would be a legal and popular handgun.

That said, it doesn't seem to fit at all with what the OP wants/needs. The answer for the OP's question is "go to a pawn shop and get a used Remington 870 or Mossberg 500A in 12ga at somewhere around $250, take it to your local range and practice with both birdshot against clays and slugs against paper targets, and make sure your wife practices too because she may be the one using it..." I know I threw in his&hers revolvers in my previous post; I still think if you are serious about being safe it's more important that she have a gun than you. As the smallest (I assume) part of your little hiking herd she is likely to be the first to be attacked not just by animals but by people too, especially if she is briefly out of sight/vulnerable, so if you could only have one gun it should be something she can and will carry...I'll provide a variation on a previous theme by saying the best way you can protect someone you care about is by equipping them (both physically and mentally) to protect themselves... but that's just my bias and I know it doesn't really answer the question.
 
Did someone say, ".44 mag carbine that's not class III"?

Marlin 1894.

Cut and crown the barrel to 16",
and you have a 6.5 lb, 33.5", legal carbine
that will easily strap to the side of a full pack.

Revolvers galore to be had for a matching set.
 
little advice here. most people in alaska use either a .44 mag revolver or a 12 gauge for protection from bears. either one is more than enough for anything you might come across. as for a lever rifle i cant see where you would need that kind of range to protect yourself from a bear. if its that far your better off just trying to avoid it rather than draw its attention.
 
Marlin 1895 Guide gun. 18" barrel, 5 round of .45-70 govt. Thats what I'm picking up for a brush gun. Grab some ammo from buffalo bore and you'll be good against anything in North America.
 
Quoting OP:
"...but i still think that at 30 or 50 yards I would have a hard time fatally wounding a charging bear or damaging it enough to insure that it is deterred."

Suggest you check the Game and Wildlife Protection regulations of the area(s) you will be hiking in before shooting at a bear that is 30yds away, and speak with a Conservation or Wildlife Officer about possible scenarios.

When bears are usually spotted in wooded terrain, they're closer than 30yds and are busy eating or travelling to or from a food patch. They'll take a look at you, sniff the air, and amble off. In most jurisdictions, having a bear close by does not give you legal cause to shoot it.

You have to be in imminent danger before you can legally shoot them in self-defence, and 30yds is considered far from imminent even though it might feel close to you esp. if the bear is moving toward you. Apparently, many bears will bluff charge, stopping some 10 or 20 feet away-thankfully I've not experienced that first hand. If you shoot one that's too far away or close but not attacking you, you're poaching. If you wound one, that bear will be a mortal danger to anyone it encounters.

Think about your own bear experiences, where your airhorn served you well. My bear banger has served me well at 15yds, on a grizzly. The few grizzlys I've seen on hikes have paid me little to no attention, they're just too busy rooting for natural foods. The many blacks I've encountered always bugger off.

Seems to me that getting a long gun AND a handgun or two does not make sense given your own experience with bears.
 
Get yourself a 44 Mag revolver, or a 44 Mag lever action. Then you can get the other later and have a common cartridge.
 
Zombie Thread

Gents, the OP is likely no longer reading this thread.

If he is, he's welcome to start a nice shiny new one.

In the interest of reducing confusion, I'm closing this one.

 
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