Long Gun Tac Sling - Pros and Cons

[444]

Let me start off by saying that I am a big fan of single point tac slings on both rifles and shotguns. The version produced by The Wilderness was recommended to me before my first trip to Gunsite. Since then I have equipped all my ARs and shotguns with the same sling and have used them extensively in various formal classes as well as in practice. I have very little to complain about.

I have taken a couple courses from one shooting school who's opinion of the tac sling is that it is OK, but if someone grabs your weapon at close quarters, they own you. They can drag or throw you around like you are on a leash.
Ok. That might be true as far as it goes, but..................
First of all, what is the alternative ? They have your gun ? I would rather be dragged or thrown around than give them my gun.
Second, you probably have the ability to fight back. You can employ the weapon itself as a contact weapon; buttstroking them, smashing them with the side of the weapon or hitting them in the head with the barrel. Of course if you are justified in using deadly force you can pivot the muzzle towards them and touch off a round, or you can transition to your handgun.
Obviously I don't buy into their line of thinking.

Opinions ?

 

[BerettaNut92]

Can't believe I missed this one

Having been in zero close quarter confrontations, the following is purely conjecture, but based on my non-existent unarmed combat skills, I rather be stuck to my gun than trying to fight back for it....

 

[tetleyb]

I would rather be dragged or thrown around than give them my gun.

Have you tried having someone grab your rifle, etc and pull you around a bit? Its quite difficult, if not impossible, to strike someone with your rifle butt, etc when they have ahold of the rifle and are violently jerking you around.

At the point someone grabs my rifle, I'm going for my handgun and shooting ther person.

The sling I have on my AR and shotgun is from Viking Tactical. The sling allows me to do most everything a 3 point sling would do, however I can slip out of it quite easily.

 

[444]

Well transititioning to the handgun is certainly an option providing you have justification for shooting them. Providing you have a handgun.
The Wilderness single point sling also has a quick release buckle that can be released with one hand allowing you to free yourself from the rifle if that seems to be the best option.
To me, any option is better than giving someone your rifle.

 

[UnknownSailor]

As big as I am (6'6". 320 lbs), it's not something I would worry about very much, personally. The benefits outweigh the cons, at least in my book. Like has been mentioned, that's when I would transiton to the handgun.

Besides, isn't that what tactics are for? Minimizing the risk of it happening?

 

[444]

I have sort of the same problem, Unknown. I am, what has been described as "thick". If someone is tossing me around like a rag doll I might be able to stop him by asking him about how his team is doing in the NFL.

 

[Yowza]

My father-in-law is an Aikido instructor that often works with police officers on weapons retention techniques. The driving principle of Aikido is using your entire body to move, rather then just your arms, back, whatever. In this situation, if you still have the weapon slung you have much greater power and control over it than anyone just holding on to it could possibly hope to, even if they are somewhat stronger than you. If they outweigh you by a considerable margin, it could be a problem maybe.

Simple version--keep your back straight, step away from or towards your attacker (depending on what he/she's trying to do) and pivot. If you keep your balance and maintain control of the weapon, it's pretty easy to make the other person lose their balance, or let go.

Then again, like most martial arts Aikido is much easier said than done, and it does take a good bit of practice to make it work.

Rick

 

[El Tejon]

Yowza, hey, that's the pluck and hang from mantis boxing. Yeah, my sifu keeps telling me that as well. Someday I'll listen!

Old School checking in. I disfavor them for several reasons. However, there are pros and cons to every set up, darn that double edged sword called life anywho.

If you are aware of the weaknesses, then you can plan to counter them. (444, you're doing great, don't worry).

 

[fix]

Quick release buckle near stock. Draw secondary weapon. Fire. Repeat.

 

[wingnutx]

I have Wilderness' 3-point Giles Sling on my AR. I like it a lot.

A quick-disconnect would be nice, though.

 

[JamisJockey]

Well transititioning to the handgun is certainly an option providing you have justification for shooting them.

I would think that someone trying to disarm you is generally a justifiable reason to shoot them.
Not to mention, if you're employing the weapon in the first place, unless you're a LEO, that's immediately considered deadly force.

I say shoot the .

 

[tetleyb]

I would think that someone trying to disarm you is generally a justifiable reason to shoot them.

I'm glad someone said this before me. Just he mere fact someone is touching my firearm, be it a long weapon or my handgun, elevates the situation to one of deadly force.

As a police officer, approximately 1/4 of all police officers killed are done so by their own weapons. Therefore, I am going to automatically assume this person is trying to take my weapon away from me, to use it on me, other officers, or other people.

That is why I said, I would immediately transition to my handgun and yes, most likely, shoot the SOB.

 

[fix]

I would immediately transition to my handgun and yes, most likely, shoot the SOB.

I feel it necessary to point out again the importance of the quick release capability in this situation. You need to be able to free yourself quickly without losing balance. Otherwise you'll either be a puppet on a string, or you'll be stumbling around during the transition to sidearm and end up losing the race to pull the trigger. The key to the quick release buckle is that it must be in a fixed position near the weapon so that you can develop the proper muscle memory during training required to perform the release quickly. Anything that "rides" around all over the place is no good. The wilderness sling is the best example of this and I highly recommend it.

 

[JimJD]

Besides the quick release button and a Handgun...
Would'nt a good fixed blade knife be helpful? Or a folder that can be deployed quickly(one-handed)?
Could use it against the attacker or the sling. Or both.
I like the idea of using it aginst the attacker.
Just wondering...

 

[444]

Sitting here in my nice comfy chair I can think of situations where it woud be hard to explain shooting someone who tried to take your carbine. You go to investigate a noise, an unarmed man attempts to disarm you. You shoot him. You KNOW it was justified, but after the fact in the court room it might not appear as cut and dried.

 

[UnknownSailor]

I recall something I saw while doing Defensive Handgun at TR in Oct 2000. During a rain delay my class was watching the instructors for the concurrent Urban Rifle class do a demonstration of room clearing from the overhead walkway, and the subject of weapon retention came up. The instructors then proceeded to demonstrate the following:

Good guy clearing tight hallway at proper Low Ready. Bad guy hiding just behind blind corner grabs rifle one handed at forend, attempting to control muzzle. Good guy takes big step back and downwards, forcing muzzle up into bad guy. Good guy shoots/doesn't shoot, depending on what bad guy does.

My $.02.

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Let's see if we can widen the knowledge playing field a bit: What are the dis/advantages of a single point sling as opposed to a three point?

I currently have the Giles/Wilderness three point slings on three of my ARs and on my Benelli; I like them just fine. I took the Chuck Taylor urban carbine course a few months back with my shorty AR and the Wilderness sling and it was rockin’ good times except for getting into the prone position quickly while slung up. There it main loop tightened up in the full prone position and I had a time getting the weapon shouldered.


So what does the single point sling bring to the party?

 

[fix]

So what does the single point sling bring to the party?

Simplicity. That can't be emphasized enough. The only real advantage that a three point offers (as far as I can tell) is the ability to just let go of the weapon and continue to move around. With the single point, you can just let it go and provided you are set up correctly, it will fall out of the way. The problem is that if you start to move again, you need to put a hand on the weapon to steady it, whereas with the three point you do not. The three point is better suited for patrolling, climbing, and other activities that involve frequent use of both hands. For pure gunfighting, the single point wins...IMHO. I do like snap slings better on shotguns though for some reason.