wankerjake
Member
Haha, it's the internet. Opinions are situational.
And: I wasn't part of that thread but there is a lot of distance between "greater than 400" and 800. 400-500 yards ain't the same as 800, both ways.
Long range hunting?
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Haha, it's the internet. Opinions are situational.
And: I wasn't part of that thread but there is a lot of distance between "greater than 400" and 800. 400-500 yards ain't the same as 800, both ways.
jim, it was probably the difference in the way the questions were asked.
Most people will tell you that if you have the skill to shoot game at 800 yards, you don't need to ask what rifle or caliber, because you've been shooting at 800 targets for years and know what will work and what won't.
the OP in this thread specifically asked why someone would want to shoot an uninjured animal at that distance, implying he already thought it was unwise.
Most people will tell you that if you have the skill to shoot game at 800 yards, you don't need to ask what rifle or caliber, because you've been shooting at 800 targets for years and know what will work and what won't.
the OP in this thread specifically asked why someone would want to shoot an uninjured animal at that distance, implying he already thought it was unwise.
jim in Anchorage
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Or as in my thread, a question from a person who was interested in LEARNING how to shoot at 800 yds and asked what gun was suitable.
MCgunner
Member
7mm STW....my answer...
MCgunner
Member
Okay, okay, maybe 26 Nosler. It's the latest and greatest and most up to datest.
Sunray
Member
Regardless of shooter's skill, most typical 'big game' hunting cartridges, with any bullet weight, do not retain enough energy past 300, never mind 400 plus. Both the 7mm Mag and STW included. Neither is much different than a 150 0r 165 grain .308 at 500, energy wise.
http://guide.sportsmansguide.com/ballisticscharts/
http://guide.sportsmansguide.com/ballisticscharts/
I disagree, many people don't have the time, money, interest, or physical ability to do that. They are no less hunters than you. I'm a Westerner also, and don't have access to a range over 200 yards. I doubt if our ancestors or Native Americans would do it the hard way if they could hunt the easy way.
My last elk guide said some of his clients into long-range hunting pass up closer shots to wait for a long range one. I'm sorry, that is just ego, and playing games with an animal. No matter how good you are, you are more likely to cleanly take an animal (the whole point of hunting) at shorter ranges. I don't bow hunt, but are they less of a hunter since they operate at close range?
I get that some are qualified to take long range shots, and have no problem with them doing so if that is their only shot, but they are a very small percentage of hunters. The vast majority have no business taking a 300+ yard shot. The guys hunting with the rifle they bought at Wal-Mart last weekend without shooting it have no business hunting, period.
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Clark
Member
entrance wound
This is the exit wound from 477 yards 7mmRemMag 140 gr Nos Bal Tip handload
I could see through the scope that it was bang flip with all 4 hooves rolling over.
The guy in the truck with the windows rolled up at over 500 yards could hear the bullet hit the animal and make hollow sound like shooting a prairie dog.
I built that rifle in 2013 and used in 2013
$300 gun show 6-23-2012 May 1963 Rem700 ADL with Hart 7mmRM stainless painted black barrel.
$230 Shilen stainless match #3 taper barrel brownells 9-18-2012
$232 High Tech Specialties [Bansner] stock brownells + many hours of trimming and fitting
$50 Burris low tactical rings brownells
$40 EGW one piece base swfa
$35 Holland recoil lug and pin brownells
$32 Large grind to fit Limbsaver recoil pad
$36 Vero Vellini sling
$12 Uncle Mikes 1" sling swivels
$14 Allen buttstock cheekrest shell holder pouch
$435 L4 VX-III 3.5-10x40mm. Matte, standard duplex, CDS, 24HCF 3-16-2013
$9 glow tape JVCC GLW, Amazon Oct 2, 2013
$114 bipod 9-13 SLM amazon Oct 5, 2013
$30 rear bag dog-gone-good Holland type 2x3x4"
$10 one part epoxy spray paint ALUMA-HYDE II AEROSOL, O.D. GREEN brownells + many hours waiting for high temperature
$0 sharpie marks on tape for ranges
$0 5/8 round Aluminum for pillars
$0 Pine for butt plug to attach recoil pad
$0 screws for recoil pad
$0 Devcon steel putty for butt plug, pillars, and recoil lug
$0 ammo
$0 bore cleaning
$0 rifle case
-------------------
$1572
This year, 2015, I built two rifles I used and tested to long range:
Dumoulin Mauser 6.5-06
Mosin Nagant 300WinMag
I shot a 3 deer, one at 629 yards this year.
MCgunner
Member
Hmm, well, from my ballistic calculations....
.308 150 grain Nosler BT (BC .453) starting out at 2773 fps from my M7 is pushing 1141 ft lbs at 500 yards. My 7 mag pushing a 150 Sierra game king (BC .532) starting out at 3151 fps from my old Savage 110 is pushing 1716 ft lbs at 500 yards. I'd call that significant.
wankerjake
Member
Haha ok. The load I shoot in my 300wsm is better at 500 yards than a 30-30 170gr Winchester power point at 50 yards.
41 Mag
Member
I don't want to stray away from the origin of the post, but the comment about the energy IMO is pretty far fetched from reality with the bullets available today verses 20-30yrs ago.
Tissue damage and penetration are what kills, destroy the vitals and things quit moving shortly thereafter. Where a 180gr ballistic tip might cut a whitetail about in half leaving at a MV of 3000fps or above at 5-800 or even more yds it still has plenty to put down most critters up to and including elk.
I quit believing in those theories years ago after practical field experiences showed me things that contradicted them. Granted you still have to use the proper equipment, and stay within your and its limits but the ftlbs required thing for this or that don't fly.
Tissue damage and penetration are what kills, destroy the vitals and things quit moving shortly thereafter. Where a 180gr ballistic tip might cut a whitetail about in half leaving at a MV of 3000fps or above at 5-800 or even more yds it still has plenty to put down most critters up to and including elk.
I quit believing in those theories years ago after practical field experiences showed me things that contradicted them. Granted you still have to use the proper equipment, and stay within your and its limits but the ftlbs required thing for this or that don't fly.
T.R.
Member
My longest shot for elk was approx. 225 yards.
My longest shot for antelope was approx. 350 yards. In my experience, it is certainly possible to get closer than to take a ridiculously long shot. I don't care for magnum rifles either.
TR
My longest shot for antelope was approx. 350 yards. In my experience, it is certainly possible to get closer than to take a ridiculously long shot. I don't care for magnum rifles either.
TR
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Sunray, the old '06 is plenty good to 500 yards, for a one-shot clean kill. Witnesses to my father's "good luck" related three such kills. Highway engineers, used to judging distances. (He always loaded 4895 to GI spec and 150-grain Hornady Spire Points, so it wasn't a matter of max loads.)
Me, my only two longer-range kills were at 350 and 450. Bang/whop/drop. DRT.
One of the larger bucks killed on our lease was at 400 yards, with a .243. One shot, DRT.
Back to my nap...
(He always loaded 4895 to GI spec and 150-grain Hornady Spire Points, so it wasn't a matter of max loads.)Me, my only two longer-range kills were at 350 and 450. Bang/whop/drop. DRT.
One of the larger bucks killed on our lease was at 400 yards, with a .243. One shot, DRT.
Back to my nap...
PowerG
Member
I have taken whitetails up to 425 yards with a 7mm-08, 139gr Interlock at 3000fps. Hit them in the right place and it's more than adequate.
The more you do something the better you tend to get at it, with the right equipment and enough practice it's something that can be done. You should have done enough homework beforehand to be highly confident before pulling the trigger on game.
The more you do something the better you tend to get at it, with the right equipment and enough practice it's something that can be done. You should have done enough homework beforehand to be highly confident before pulling the trigger on game.
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7mm STW....my answer...
Mindset, skill set......................................Tool set.
In that order. Caliber does not make the long range shooter.
41 Mag
Member
Not sure what your exactly speaking of here would you be a little more specific, are you talking about the original post or something posted just above?
Please elaborate...
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Mindset in this situation is having put in the time and training behind the trigger of your rifle in all kinds of weather and varying conditions. From all kinds of various positions, at various ranges to know your limitations. To know when you can and can not make a shot. Shooting at a game animal should not be a trial and error situation. Just because you can pull off a shot on the range under controlled circumstances does not mean that you can do the same in the field. The only thing that will teach you that is doing.
I know my skill set, I know my tool set. Mindset should be, given all of my experience in regards to this situation. Am I ethically able to make a clean kill at this range in these conditions?
I know my skill set, I know my tool set. Mindset should be, given all of my experience in regards to this situation. Am I ethically able to make a clean kill at this range in these conditions?
MCgunner
Member
Yeah, but I was answering the following question....
It's a hardware question.
I was thinkin' that the 1715 ft lbs of my 7 mag at 500 yards is almost what a factory .30-30 makes at the muzzle...around 1800 ft lbs or a little over. So, in this case, if you can walk up to the animal and put the muzzle of a .30-30 on the shoulder and fire and kill the animal, well, 500 yards with the 7 mag, you're in the same energy range.
The trick is to learn how to put that bullet on the right spot since you ain't point blank from the target. Lots of practice don't hurt, either.I don't hunt much with that cannon anymore. It's a little much for a 50 yard shot in the woods.
Arkansas Paul
Member
I've personally witnessed a whitetail doe get head shot at just a hair over 600 yds. I'm not saying it was smart, or that I would advise it, but I darn sure saw it.
The rifle was a custom Remington 700 in MCgunner's caliber of choice, the 7mm STW. The scope was a Burris Illuminator with a built in laser rangefinder. You put the crosshairs on the target and push a button. It tells you the range and a little green light appears. That's what you put on the deer.
The shooter was one of the best shots I've ever been around and he is a meticulous handloader. There's no telling how much time and money he spent tailoring a load and matching it to the scope. I still remember he shot nothing but Swift Scirocco bullets.
Even with that equipment and experience, it wasn't uncommon to hear a shot from his stand and him come back empty handed saying he'd shot at a doe at long range. He always went for head shots when doing it, I guess because of the opinion that he would either miss or drop it right there. I know that is a fallacy, but it's likely the mindset.
Anyway, that's my experience with seeing it the once.
I certainly wouldn't trust myself and my equipment at anything near that range.
The rifle was a custom Remington 700 in MCgunner's caliber of choice, the 7mm STW. The scope was a Burris Illuminator with a built in laser rangefinder. You put the crosshairs on the target and push a button. It tells you the range and a little green light appears. That's what you put on the deer.
The shooter was one of the best shots I've ever been around and he is a meticulous handloader. There's no telling how much time and money he spent tailoring a load and matching it to the scope. I still remember he shot nothing but Swift Scirocco bullets.
Even with that equipment and experience, it wasn't uncommon to hear a shot from his stand and him come back empty handed saying he'd shot at a doe at long range. He always went for head shots when doing it, I guess because of the opinion that he would either miss or drop it right there. I know that is a fallacy, but it's likely the mindset.
Anyway, that's my experience with seeing it the once.
I certainly wouldn't trust myself and my equipment at anything near that range.
MCgunner
Member
Wow, that's a pretty high zoot scope. Did it calculate for uphill/downhill angle? If so, the only variable is wind, which can be pretty iffy at that sort of range.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
I went on an antelope hunt in Wyoming with my dad the summer after I graduated high school and I remember being told by the guy that took us "If your not comfortable with a 400 yard shot, theirs not much need to come" granted he may have Been just bs'ing me. I ended up taking one at 325 yards, my dads was a little closer if memory serves.
I'm Alabama born and raised so I know nearly nothing about hunting antelope, but I've hunted a LOT of power/pipe lines so I was fairly familiar with longer shots.
Arkansas Paul
Member
I'm not certain but I don't think it does.
It's fairly flat where this stand is though. It's a big fully enclosed box stand and you can see for about 800 Yds in two directions.
http://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/...pe-series/eliminator-iii-laserscope-4-16x50mm
EDIT: I just read on Burris' site that it does. Crazy.
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