Long range hunting?

[X-Rap]

Sorry, posted with phone, the quote on lack of energy past 300 yds has got to be one of the silliest I've read here in a while.
My point being that the poster should hunt/shoot more and read less before posting such ridiculous "facts".

Quote:
Perfect example of one who reads more than they do. Can't imagine anyone with any experience making such a statement.

Not sure what your exactly speaking of here would you be a little more specific, are you talking about the original post or something posted just above?

Please elaborate...

Regardless of shooter's skill, most typical 'big game' hunting cartridges, with any bullet weight, do not retain enough energy past 300, never mind 400 plus. Both the 7mm Mag and STW included. Neither is much different than a 150 0r 165 grain .308 at 500, energy wise.
http://guide.sportsmansguide.com/ballisticscharts/

 

[d2wing]

I have also learned not to judge others by my own limitations. I know I am a good shot, expert badges and all, and I shoot good equipment. Once a bunch of us were starting to cross a Feild in a pick up to drive deer in the woods beyond a 1/4 mile field. Buck jumped up from some brush a took off. By the time we got out and chambered round that deer was crossing the fence. I did not attempt the shot. The driver did. He had told me about some long shots but he made a believer out of me. That deer was past a 1/4 mile when he shot and moving fast. One shot and the deer disappeared. One shot OFFHAND. That deer was dead about 40 yards into the woods. I was awestruck. Still am. There are about 8 witnesses.

 

[MCgunner]

d2wing...that sounds like luck.

 

[Paul7]

Wow, that's a pretty high zoot scope. Did it calculate for uphill/downhill angle? If so, the only variable is wind, which can be pretty iffy at that sort of range.

No kidding. What happens if a gust of wind comes up half way to your target?

 

[Art Eatman]

Some shooters are above exceptional; they're incredible. Miculek types.

I was riding in his jeep with my uncle. He spotted a trotting buck across a fence at about 125 yards. Locked the brakes, grabbing his rifle as the jeep died. As the buck jumped the fence, my uncle shot and broke its neck.

Two witnesses and my father were ambling around a big pasture at White's Mines west of Uvalde. They saw a way-over-yonder big buck, around 500 yards. A norther blowing. One guy passed the shot; too much wind. My father "bragged", "I'll break his neck from here." Offhand. His first shot was off, but it showed how much correction he needed for wind. The second shot broke the buck's neck. (My father never offered the story, but the witnesses did.)

I'm pretty good, but that's beyond me. Dammit.

 

[41 Mag]

X-Rap, that makes more sense now. Thanks, and I completely agree.

I also agree that unless someone has put in the time and effort to learn to read the conditions and know the load they are shooting intimately, they really have no business reaching out across the wide open spaces.

I personally have been shooting about my whole life and hunting and killing deer since I was 6, loading ammo since I was 8 and now at 52 have still got a ton to learn. I work up loads for each of my firearms and test them year round. I try my best to never take anything for granted when it comes to hunting. If something prints a good group one outing and a pour one the next something isn't right and it usually isn't me. I cannot say I don't pull a shot once in a while but I can say that if I do it isn't while I am aiming at an animal. I only make high percentage shots and if ranges are long you can bet there isn't any wind or is there is it isn't hardly enough to be felt. Even then I will do my best to get closer in order to make a better shot. I would also as soon enjoy the fact I got to see something nice and let it walk on off rather than shoot at it just to try and fill a tag. I've had bucks that a ton of folks would get the slobbering shakes over standing withing 10yds of me and never even considered shooting. Not because I couldn't have, but I am a very picky person and would rather have what I want over just what comes along. That said I won't let a two to three year old spike walk another step even i a 150 class 10 point is standing next to it. I would rather have more of the latter than to let the former have his way with the does. Our rule is if you put a good one down it better be going on the wall. Personally I don't have the money to do that so the good ones are safe around me, well there is always that one........

 

[jim in Anchorage]

hunting and killing deer since I was 6,

The age people around here started hunting and shooting gets lower every day. Now it's 6? A adult put a gun in your hand to go hunting deer at age 6?
Is that even legal?

 

[Pete D.]

There is no denying that there are cirumstances when getting close is impossible and, if a shooter wants to harvest an animal, the shot is going to be a long one. There is no denying the skill needed to make a shot in the field at "long" distance, nor how much background work in load development, et cetera. is needed.
For me, the point is vocabulary. Hunting. What do we mean by "hunting"? Reading through most, not all, of the previous posts, there are a lot of posters who equate the skill to successfully take a long shot and harvest an animal as hunting.
For me, that doesn't work...that is why I call it harvesting. It ain't necessarily easy but it is not what hunting means to me.
A couple of guys that I know hunt Caribou up on the tundra in northern Alaska. Bow hunt. They see the animals many hundreds of yards away. if they were using firearms, they could take the long shot. With a bow (or a pistol) they need to get way closer..and they do. Different sets of skills - you can call them both "hunting" but I don't.
Pete

 

[MCgunner]

The age people around here started hunting and shooting gets lower every day. Now it's 6? A adult put a gun in your hand to go hunting deer at age 6?
Is that even legal?

Far as I know, Jim, it's legal in Texas EXCEPT, your average 6 year old ain't even literate enough to take the hunter safety test at age 6! Heck, in the modern public school system, they're lucky to be literate in high school anymore.

I started shooting a Daisy Red Rider at age 6. I graduated to a pump up Benjamin .22 pellet rifle at age 7, a .22 by age 9, was turned loose to hunt squirrel on my own by age 10, and shot my first deer when I demonstrated to my grandpa that I could handle his .257 Roberts at age 11. Actually, I started going with him at age 9, but didn't get to carry my own rifle. At age 11, he sat me down on his favorite spot and left me alone and I got a nice, big six pointer. And, I really think I was a little early, but I'd been taught gun safety by my uncle who was an NRA certified instructor and my grandpa. I didn't have to take any hunter safety course. That didn't start until the 70s and I'm grandfathered out of that requirement being I'm older'n dirt.

But, I agree...SIX? Come on, that six year old is hunting illegally if he doesn't have a hunter safety certification, at least in THIS state.

 

[Clark]

I got a Daisy 25 pump BB gun at age 10 and could barely cock it.
I hunted every day and never got anything.

I got a Crossman CO2 22 pellet gun at 12 [my father did not think I could pump the Sheridan or Benjamin] and started killing. I could get 3 robins with 3 shots.

I got a Win 1897 shotgun at 14. I still have it 50 years later.

I now build a number of long range rifles every year. Last week I bought a Sav 110 7mmRM and a Rem700 30-06. I was just buying them for the actions.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

The age people around here started hunting and shooting gets lower every day. Now it's 6? A adult put a gun in your hand to go hunting deer at age 6?
Is that even legal?

It is legal in Arkansas but I agree with your assessment.
I think it is too young and I think that a lot of deer tagged by 6 year olds were not actually shot by them. I've heard of adults sighting the gun and holding it on their shoulder and telling their 6 year old to pull the trigger. That's not the same thing as a 6 year old shooting it IMO.

I know every child is different, but it is a stretch.

My daughter was 10 when I thought she was ready. She loaded her own ammo, with me over her shoulder every step of the way obviously, and shot her first one without my direct assistance. She was sitting on my knee and had the .223 propped up in the window of the box stand.

I wouldn't have let her try it at 6.

But, I agree...SIX? Come on, that six year old is hunting illegally if he doesn't have a hunter safety certification, at least in THIS state.

It varies state to state.
In Arkansas a child under 16 can hunt without a HE card if they are under direct supervision of a licensed adult.

Here's how the G&F words it:

The Deferred Hunter Education Code is a one-year permit that allows a person without hunter-education certification to legally hunt. A hunter may apply and use a Deferred Hunter Education Code as long as he or she:

is at least 16 years old and born after Dec. 31, 1968, and is not hunter-education certified;
is in the immediate presence of an adult who is at least 21 years of age and possesses valid hunter education certification, or who was born on or before Dec. 31, 1968;
Possesses a valid Arkansas hunting license;
Has not been convicted of or forfeited bond for prior violation of Hunter Education Certification Requirements, and
is not under AGFC-sanctioned hunting privilege revocation.

 

[X-Rap]

I always wondered about the grandfather clause in many of the Hunter Safety regulations, why is there usually some exemption prior to a certain year of birth?

 

[Art Eatman]

From what I've read, in some states, if you're hunting on your own land, some of the restrictions don't apply. Maybe it's that way for little kids. Maybe.

I was loose in the pasture/woods at my grandfather's 150 acres with his .22 rifle at age seven. My "training"? "Don't shoot a cow." Nothing bad ever happened. I was given my own personal .22 rifle when I was eleven. Nothing bad ever happened.

 

[sage5907]

There's one thing about long range hunting that really bothers me. When you shoot an animal at long range the only way you have seen it with your eyes is through your binoculars and your rifle scope. You fire the shot and then you walk several hundred yards to find the animal. When you walk up to the animal it's like you really didn't shoot it because you have never seen it before. It's just laying there on the ground, completely unfamiliar to you. I guess this comes from my bow hunting experience where I was always up close and personal with every animal.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I was loose in the pasture/woods at my grandfather's 150 acres with his .22 rifle at age seven. My "training"? "Don't shoot a cow."

Yeah, it was pretty similar for me.

When I was 9 or 10 my brother gave me a single shot .22 magnum for Christmas. I would traipse all around the property we lived on shooting whatever struck my fancy. My dad's warning was always, "Don't shoot towards the house."

Those were the good ol' days.

 

[gspn]

The age people around here started hunting and shooting gets lower every day. Now it's 6? A adult put a gun in your hand to go hunting deer at age 6?
Is that even legal?

My son killed his first deer at 7. It was a fat doe 110 yards from our stand. We practiced a bunch on the range, and when the time came I told him "It's your call. If you're happy with your sight picture, just do like you practiced." Bang...flop. Success with a perfect hit behind the shoulder. I've also seen him pass on shots because he couldn't get his rifle steady...I've seen grown men that don't have the discipline to do that.

I started taking him on several trips a year when he was 3. The first few years he watched me, then when he started shooting, I sat with him on every hunt as his mentor. Eventually he began hunting on his own. It's a very natural progression.

Every kid is different...just like every adult is different. Some will be incredibly safe at a young age, and there are others I don't trust even as 50 year old men with a gun.

My kid understands gun safety, in theory and in practice. He understands deer hunting, how to track them, how to stalk them, where to shoot them, how to establish a good field shooting position and what a proper sight picture looks like.

This isn't just giving a kid a gun and saying "go for it".

As a comparison, consider a trip I took to the range last year. One of my sons friends and his dad wanted to meet us at the range to shoot. They are hunters/gun owners.

I watched the dad put TWO bullets into the ceiling while we were there. He just wouldn't handle a gun properly (I haven't shot with them since). Age isn't a primary consideration for gun safety...education, attention to detail, and desire to do it right are far more important.

 

[Nature Boy]

I put a lot of effort into getting a steady comfortable position. Here's how I'm doing it this year. Tripod shooting sticks support the butt and a bean bag rest up front. Pretty rock solid when I'm done. I feel pretty confident making shots out to 300 if I have a firm platform. That said, I'd rather have them come in closer and will often pass on long range shots with the hope of getter a higher percentage chance.

 

[MCgunner]

I always wondered about the grandfather clause in many of the Hunter Safety regulations, why is there usually some exemption prior to a certain year of birth?

Because old farts are wise.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

There's one thing about long range hunting that really bothers me. When you shoot an animal at long range the only way you have seen it with your eyes is through your binoculars and your rifle scope. You fire the shot and then you walk several hundred yards to find the animal. When you walk up to the animal it's like you really didn't shoot it because you have never seen it before. It's just laying there on the ground, completely unfamiliar to you.

When I slice it's backstraps about an inch thick, then pound them out with a meat mallet, dip in buttermilk and then in seasoned flour and fry to a golden brown, it will be plenty familiar to me.

That's why I hunt. I don't do it for sport, though I do enjoy it.

I really don't give a rat's derriere whether or not some consider it sporting or fair. I am out there to put delicious venison in my freezer and I don't care how I do it as long as it is legal and is not cruel to the animal.

Not calling you out or saying you're wrong either. Just my way of looking at it.

 

[Nature Boy]

When I slice it's backstraps about an inch thick, then pound them out with a meat mallet, dip in buttermilk and then in seasoned flour and fry to a golden brown, it will be plenty familiar to me.

After coating, put them back in the fridge for an hour and let the batter glutenate. They fry up much crispier and the batter doesn't come off as you're cooking them.

You're from Arkansas Paul and I'm assuming you may not know how to make proper chicken fried steak like we do in Texas. Apologies in advance if I was wrong

 

[Arkansas Paul]

You're from Arkansas Paul and I'm assuming you may not know how to make proper chicken fried steak like we do in Texas.

Haha.
That reminds me of something Sheldon said on the Big Bang Theory.
Something about being in Texas and frying things that are not chicken as though they were. lol

I'll try that. I do have a problem sometimes with the batter coming off when flipped.

Hmmmm. I may just have to try that tonight.

 

[fallout mike]

Just bc you can't shoot past 400 yards doesn't mean someone else's skills can't far surpass yours. A close uncle ranged one a couple years ago at 640 yards and made a front shoulder shot on it with a .300RUM. When he got to it the deer was dead a little less than 10 yards from the point of impact. And he routinely shoots at that distance so to him it was just a routine shot.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

There's one thing about long range hunting that really bothers me. When you shoot an animal at long range the only way you have seen it with your eyes is through your binoculars and your rifle scope. You fire the shot and then you walk several hundred yards to find the animal. When you walk up to the animal it's like you really didn't shoot it because you have never seen it before. It's just laying there on the ground, completely unfamiliar to you. I guess this comes from my bow hunting experience where I was always up close and personal with every animal.

I know exactly what you mean. Some of the deer I shot with a bow I had seen a dozen times. Some I even recognized from the past year. I knew there habits to a T.
Very few animals existence I shot with a gun did I know of till the day I shot them.

 

[41 Mag]

hunting and killing deer since I was 6,

[Quote:]The age people around here started hunting and shooting gets lower every day. Now it's 6? A adult put a gun in your hand to go hunting deer at age 6?
Is that even legal?[/QUOTE]

Yes Jim I shot my first deer at age 6 sitting on my pop's knee so I was high enough to see out of the box stand we were in. Was it a Boone and Crockett record book buck? Nope it barely had enough horns to know it was a buck, but it was just as legal then as me shooting it.

My whole family hunted together, aunts uncles, cousins, brothers and sisters. It was simply something that evolved from most all of them being raised through the depression and putting food on the table. My grandmother had 5 boys and 5 girls and lost her husband when they were all young. They had a farm and used it to survive, hunting, planting and raising livestock.

As they got married and had kids the kids weren't left at home with a sitter, they were drug out into the woods with a blanket wrapped up and sat still and quiet while the adults hunted. I was in the woods with my pop at age 2 while he was on his long changes while my mom worked. When my cousins and I were 4 and older we were shooting M1 Carbines and learning gun safety. We all did it together. Nothing like today's society where folks just one day get the itch to do something they saw on a TV show. Sorry to upset you but it is simply something of a heritage in our family.

As a result when my daughter was born she fell right in whee I left off. We all still hunted and she was in the stand with one of us even in diapers. She didn't get her first deer until she was 9 but it wasn't for alack of trying, and she hasn't let up since. When my first grandson was born my wife and I took care of him while the daughter worked. When we went camping and fishing on the beach well he went to. When I went to the woods so did he. When he was big enough to hold on tight to the gas cap on my 4 wheeler he was with me making rounds checking fences and such on my friends place and when we saw a hog we were instructed to shoot it on sight. He learned real quick, when the brakes came one so did his ear muff's because I was going to shoot.

This picture was taken just before his 3rd birthday,

After which he would not let up on wanting to shoot a hog himself. He was obsessed with it and living with me I heard it almost daily. I told him he would only be able to do so if HE could hold the rifle HIMSELF, and could shoot well enough that I thought he was ready. The only rifle I had he was capable of managing was the one I was shooting most of the hogs with in the first place, a Ruger Compact in .308 which only weighed 6.5 pounds. Well trust me when I say, he worked his rear off to get to the point of him being able to hold the rifle. We practiced with no bolt in it for quite a while before we ever went to the farm with loaded ammo. When we did I used the Hodgdon lowest reduced load with a 125gr Ballistic tip and he teared up the first three times he shot them. I didn't make him shoot any of them he sucked it up and went right on about it.

We practiced all summer long at ranges out to 50yds.

Two weeks before his 4th birthday he put he hammer down on his first hog using that rifle.

As to the morality or legality of it all in Texas they do not have to have the hunters ed until they are 17 if they are hunting with an adult over that age who has had it or is exempt from it as I am. I do have it having taken the course to hunt out of state if that is still a concern. As to the morals of it, I do not alloy as did my parents, shots over 50yds until it is proven they can be made from field positions using a bi-pod or other field rest such as sitting resting across a knee or prone. These were all things I was brought up and taught. It is still being taught to my other two grandsons right now. The one pictured above is now 14 and has done quite well for himself. His last years buck was takes sitting behind a bipod with my 25-06 AI at just over 300yds, a bang flop. The middle one (9) got his first doe at 60yds using a Ruger Compact in .243 during the youth weekend at the end of October, and the youngest (7) is working hard to get him one before the end of the season.

They all practice with me year round, and follow gun safety great. If they don't, they sit at the house. If they have an infraction they go to the house right then after me giving them a good chewing out. They know pop is serious about it and if they want to go with him they have to follow the rules and they are all very good being brought up with it from the start.

Now if your kids aren't up to it, or you don't or can't spend the time with them to get them there, I have no comment on that, life is different for everyone. I am fortunate to have my own property that my folks grew up on, and friends who have property where we can go as well. I make the time to go there to spend with them, but I don't force any of them to go out with me.

Al that said it is pretty bad when you get hammered on a great site like this for trying to bring kids up into the hunting and shooting world simply due to someones personal feelings. If you can't get over your own shortcomings or situations just keep those comments to yourself or post them elsewhere.

 

[41 Mag]

As a side note, we don't all head out each time we hunt to see how far we can find something to shoot at. We would all like to be able to make a 40-60yd shot and go to the house. However nature doesn't always play into our game plan and sometimes we make an exception to a rule. You can however rest at ease when we DO make that change in plans, the practice has been put in and the knowledge and skill has been acquired or it doesn't happen.

I am also a bowhunter myself and most of the deer we have roaming around we see time and time again. We lay off some completely even though they are in most folks eyes, a real trophy, but if we kill them that is all they will ever be, and will not spread their genes through the herd. Now if you have 6,8 and 14yr old kids who understand that your doing good. All of mine have learned they can take any buck that is legal, but if they do thats all he will be and there won't be more like him later one. So far they all want more like the ones we let have a pass except for two that are on the hit list if someone else doesn't get them first. So I think I am doing pretty well even if it is my own opinion.