Looking to add a 380 but which one?
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Ignition Override
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solman:
The commercial Russian Makarovs, in .380 or 9x18, mostly single-stack, are easy to find. The mags for the double-stacks are pricey. This moment, the first page on Gunbroker shows about a dozen of them.
On mine, the DA trigger is a little bit heavy, but a good bit lighter than my (former) "Made In Germany" PPK/S.
The recoil on my Russian is a Also a fair bit lighter than on the PPK/S. Some "Germany" PPK/S guns require a different recoil spring to be reliable with our modern, commercial ammo.
None of my Makarovs needed anything to be changed. All: the .380 Russian, 9x18 East Germans and Bulgarian Maks have had perfect operations with chambering, firing (on first strike), extraction, ejection.
Very rugged and simple, and all single-stack Makarov magazines are very interchangeable, if from an Actual Makarov (from "EGs", mil.&comm. Russians, mil.&comm Bulgarians, or the "PRC").
My Sig 232 is also excellent.
The commercial Russian Makarovs, in .380 or 9x18, mostly single-stack, are easy to find. The mags for the double-stacks are pricey. This moment, the first page on Gunbroker shows about a dozen of them.
On mine, the DA trigger is a little bit heavy, but a good bit lighter than my (former) "Made In Germany" PPK/S.
The recoil on my Russian is a Also a fair bit lighter than on the PPK/S. Some "Germany" PPK/S guns require a different recoil spring to be reliable with our modern, commercial ammo.
None of my Makarovs needed anything to be changed. All: the .380 Russian, 9x18 East Germans and Bulgarian Maks have had perfect operations with chambering, firing (on first strike), extraction, ejection.
Very rugged and simple, and all single-stack Makarov magazines are very interchangeable, if from an Actual Makarov (from "EGs", mil.&comm. Russians, mil.&comm Bulgarians, or the "PRC").
My Sig 232 is also excellent.
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Of many owned over sixty years of shooting, two stand out. My Micro is the first one I can consistently shoot accurately, but an LC380 recently acquired is maybe better. Lcp, lcp2, both compact, the 2, way better trigger and sights, often in my pocket. Walther ppks was too expensive to repair (often).
Armybrat
Member
Remington bought the Rohrbaugh company's excellent R380 design and is producing a good all metal (aluminum) frame DA only - the RM380. Don't be put off by the R51 boondoggle, the RM380 seems to be an excellent value, well made with good fit & finish.
The owner reviews I've read have all been positive (haven't shot mine yet)
With last year's cash rebates I have $170 in mine. (Plus FFL fee)
The owner reviews I've read have all been positive (haven't shot mine yet)
With last year's cash rebates I have $170 in mine. (Plus FFL fee)
Tallball
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In response to the questions about the Colt Government Model, it fires from a locked breech. Its frame is steel. It's significantly larger than the Mustangs or Sigs. All of that adds up to an extremely soft-shooting handgun. My daughter hates recoil, and she was happily shoooting it when she was eight or nine. If there is a softer-shooting 380, I haven't encountered it yet.
Bill Laughridge of Cylinder and Slide offered a compensated 5" Government Model chambered in .380 ACP .... called it his "Full House Mouse". - meaning a 45 redone to shoot 380 ACP.
I wonder if he made more than one? I don't see it on the website.
https://cylinder-slide.com/Store
greyling22
Member
Doesn't Browning make a scaled down 1911 that shoots 380? Maybe 80% scale
Yes, they do. it is called the 1911-380. I have handled one, it looks very good. I particularly like that it incorporates a grip safety. Many of the holsters tor the Colt Mustang Pattern Pistols (I say Mustang Pattern because several companies make versions of the same pistol) are open top with no retention device blocking the hammer. Frankly, I would be a lot more confident carrying, condition one, in one of these holsters with a grip safety.
Other features of the Browning is that is is a "full sized" .380 1911, compared to the Mustang Pattern Pistols which have both shorter barrels and grips. The Browning also has a polymer frame, most of the other "full size" .380 1911s' (LLama, Baby Rock, Colt .380 Government Model) Have Steel or Alloy Frames.
In all, I would definitely put it one the "highly Recommended" list. The only issue is that it is one of the more expensive .380 pistols on the market.
image from here
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Bersa Thunder 380 7rds
Bersa Thunder + (15 rds!)
Both Bersa models are quite good and are fine shooters. Mild recoil. The Thunder+ is even more comfortable due to the wider grip/double stack mag frame.
Don’t forget the RIA Baby Rock 380 (1911 pattern)!
Bersa Thunder + (15 rds!)
Both Bersa models are quite good and are fine shooters. Mild recoil. The Thunder+ is even more comfortable due to the wider grip/double stack mag frame.
Don’t forget the RIA Baby Rock 380 (1911 pattern)!
The extractor on the Baby Rock looks exactly like the Llama. When I was looking at the Baby Rock next to the Llama, at a Salt Lake gun store, the common heritage was clear. It does not appear to be a Colt Mustang Pattern Pistol.
Several sources mention that the Baby Rock and Llama are blowback pistols. I did notice that they were quite heavy compared to the Browning, Colt Mustang Pattern Pistols, and even the Colt .380 Government model. They would probably be suitable for home and range; but I wouldn't want to carry one EDC.
There is a good possibility that my wife my abscond with my Kimber Micro .380. If that were to happen, I am pretty sure I would spend the extra for the Browning 1911-380. I was able to examine it side by side with both the Llama and the Baby Rock, and my Kimber and Government .380s'. Frankly, the Browning is a league ahead of the Baby Rock and Llama; of course, at its price it should be.
The only thing that would keep the Browning out of my arsenal is if I can get my Glock 42 to shoot the way I want it to. However, no, having had the opportunity to examine the Baby Rock and Llama, they are not even on my short list. That being said, I would not give them a total thumbs down to someone looking for home and range; after all, they are significantly less expensive than the Browning 1911-380 and Colt Mustang Pattern Pistols.
Several sources mention that the Baby Rock and Llama are blowback pistols. I did notice that they were quite heavy compared to the Browning, Colt Mustang Pattern Pistols, and even the Colt .380 Government model. They would probably be suitable for home and range; but I wouldn't want to carry one EDC.
There is a good possibility that my wife my abscond with my Kimber Micro .380. If that were to happen, I am pretty sure I would spend the extra for the Browning 1911-380. I was able to examine it side by side with both the Llama and the Baby Rock, and my Kimber and Government .380s'. Frankly, the Browning is a league ahead of the Baby Rock and Llama; of course, at its price it should be.
The only thing that would keep the Browning out of my arsenal is if I can get my Glock 42 to shoot the way I want it to. However, no, having had the opportunity to examine the Baby Rock and Llama, they are not even on my short list. That being said, I would not give them a total thumbs down to someone looking for home and range; after all, they are significantly less expensive than the Browning 1911-380 and Colt Mustang Pattern Pistols.
lordfarquaad had a lot of problems with his. I'm not sure he can even get hollow points to cycle reliably in it:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/my-1911-380-issues-troubleshooting-progress.825942/
Dudedog
Contributing Member
A MAK in .380 might be a good choice.
Simple, inexpensive, super reliable, not any harder to rack/charge than my Kahr P380.
Lots of choices not saying this is the best but worth consideration.
Simple, inexpensive, super reliable, not any harder to rack/charge than my Kahr P380.
Lots of choices not saying this is the best but worth consideration.
cowboy77845
Member
I like the Walther PP and the Colt 1908. A new 1903 is as close as I've come to a 1908. Little suckers are not inexpensive.
Musket 13
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I just purchased a Kimber micro 380. 1911 stlyle. single action, nice trigger (for my wife) and fits my large hand nicely. It has light recoil 7 round magazine and very affordable when you find sales which I did.
icarryone reviewed the MC-14 and put out a video on YouTube and I asked him if it was blow back or short-recoil, locked breech and he replied that it is a direct blow-back pistol. So... he has one and he seems to know enough about pistols to know the difference:
zaitcev
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The Llama line is stupidly obscure and convoluted: they switched from a Browning-style recoil to blowback with very little change externally. As much as I can gather (and one must be a Llama connoisseur to keep track), Models I, II, Especiale, and III are locked breech, whereas III-A and MicroMax are blowback.
I tend to shy away from blowback pistols. However, as a part of a conversation elsewhere, I wrote to Beretta to ask if the 84/85 was safe with +P ammunition (not a real .380 specification). They wrote back and said yes, but not for regular use.
Considering the similarity, I would expect that is also true of the Zenith MC-14.
Here is the letter:
Considering the similarity, I would expect that is also true of the Zenith MC-14.
Here is the letter:
I find it interesting that they didn't point out that there is no .380acp +p specification and any claims of +p are purely manufacturer claims.
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GBExpat
Member
<nodding> I like my Bersa Thunder Plus very much.
IMO, if it were a locking-breech design it would be close to being a perfect, low-priced, compact, mid-power, high-capacity carry piece.
For those who may be considering one, be aware that magazines are somewhat expensive.
Blkhrt13
Member
No one has suggested the classic 1934 beretta. It’s lines are beautiful. Though they are getting much more rare so cost reflects that. Never mind the lack of new parts. I really do think they are pleasing. They were used from design release till 1992 or so. I wish someone would knock a copy off at a fair price.
Take a look at S&W's M&P 380 Shield EZ. It's about the size of a Walther PK380. S&W has issued a recall for the version with a thumb safety. Apparently, if you limp wrist a hot cartridge, the safety may flip to the safe position on its own. No need for it anyway since the gun has a grip safety.
If you want something smaller, but not as small as an LCP, look at Kahr's CT380. Three inch barrel and a seven round magazine which makes the grip long enough for three fingers.
If you want something smaller, but not as small as an LCP, look at Kahr's CT380. Three inch barrel and a seven round magazine which makes the grip long enough for three fingers.
And not all of them use the same magazines. The ones that fit some of them can be hard to find new, and when you can they are not cheap.
I went to handgun Heaven and looked at the LLama. I had my Kimber Micro .380 to use for comparison. I also looked at the RIA Baby Rock. If money is an issue, go with the Baby Rock. It felt considerably better. However, I have gotten used to my .380 pistols being lite. I was surprised by the weight of both the Baby Rock and the Llama. I should have taken my Colt .380 government for comparison.
They also had the Browning 1911-380 there. It felt like quality where the Llama and the Baby Rock didn't (again, with the Llama being at the true bottom of the scale).
I realize there are some complaints about the Browning 1911-380. However, I tend to question forum reviews of .380 pistols. the trouble is the extreme anti .380 bias. when some people hear .380 they have a knee-jerk reaction, '. . . .380? they're all junk!. . . Oh, a .380, well, it might be okay for a girl. . . Those things are all blowback and they jam all the time. . ." I can go on; but forms of that seem to come out when people start talking about .380 pistols.
The result is that it becomes hard to turn forum comments into anything useful.
As for my .380 pistols. I carried a Colt .380 Government Model for several years. Then I took a job that required a 9mm ans a minimum. Of all the odd things, the Sheriff was okay with my makarov. So it actually was my duty pistol for about three years (the Makarov was lighter, and easier to keep concealed than my 1911 and the Hi-Power). Then I left the country for about a decade (at that point my daughter decided that the Makarov was hers). When I came back it just wasn't convenient for me to go pick up my Colt, so I got a Glock 42. The Glock 42 is just a hard gun to like. There is nothing to dislike about it, it is a gun that evokes no emotions whatsoever.
It still wasn't convenient to go back and get my Colt, so I purchased a Kimber .380. It is a great .380. Yes, it needed some out of the box work (I really don't understand Kimber, for such a well regarded, and expensive, brand, I cant see why seem to have such poor quality control). The slide stop was engaging when the magazine wasn't empty. I filed on the slide stop and now it works fine, it is accurate and just feels good.
the problem was that while doing some training drills I had several cases where I forgot to release the safety. The result is that the Glock 42 is my current carry gun.
I also purchased a Walther PK380. I realize that this forum is very down on the PK380, but I have no real complaints with it.my only issue is that it is a large pistol for a .380. There is nothing wrong with that, the Beretta 84/85 along with the Zenith MC-14, mentioned above, are about the some size. However, it is bigger than I want to carry. The result is that it is primarily a range gun. I have the Colt back; however, it does nothing better than the Kimber.
So, .380: Colt Government Model, Kimber Micro, PK380, Glock 42. . . none of them are bad. All shoot well and are reliable. As long as one sticks to brands known for quality, it would be hard to pick a bad one.
They also had the Browning 1911-380 there. It felt like quality where the Llama and the Baby Rock didn't (again, with the Llama being at the true bottom of the scale).
I realize there are some complaints about the Browning 1911-380. However, I tend to question forum reviews of .380 pistols. the trouble is the extreme anti .380 bias. when some people hear .380 they have a knee-jerk reaction, '. . . .380? they're all junk!. . . Oh, a .380, well, it might be okay for a girl. . . Those things are all blowback and they jam all the time. . ." I can go on; but forms of that seem to come out when people start talking about .380 pistols.
The result is that it becomes hard to turn forum comments into anything useful.
As for my .380 pistols. I carried a Colt .380 Government Model for several years. Then I took a job that required a 9mm ans a minimum. Of all the odd things, the Sheriff was okay with my makarov. So it actually was my duty pistol for about three years (the Makarov was lighter, and easier to keep concealed than my 1911 and the Hi-Power). Then I left the country for about a decade (at that point my daughter decided that the Makarov was hers). When I came back it just wasn't convenient for me to go pick up my Colt, so I got a Glock 42. The Glock 42 is just a hard gun to like. There is nothing to dislike about it, it is a gun that evokes no emotions whatsoever.
It still wasn't convenient to go back and get my Colt, so I purchased a Kimber .380. It is a great .380. Yes, it needed some out of the box work (I really don't understand Kimber, for such a well regarded, and expensive, brand, I cant see why seem to have such poor quality control). The slide stop was engaging when the magazine wasn't empty. I filed on the slide stop and now it works fine, it is accurate and just feels good.
the problem was that while doing some training drills I had several cases where I forgot to release the safety. The result is that the Glock 42 is my current carry gun.
I also purchased a Walther PK380. I realize that this forum is very down on the PK380, but I have no real complaints with it.my only issue is that it is a large pistol for a .380. There is nothing wrong with that, the Beretta 84/85 along with the Zenith MC-14, mentioned above, are about the some size. However, it is bigger than I want to carry. The result is that it is primarily a range gun. I have the Colt back; however, it does nothing better than the Kimber.
So, .380: Colt Government Model, Kimber Micro, PK380, Glock 42. . . none of them are bad. All shoot well and are reliable. As long as one sticks to brands known for quality, it would be hard to pick a bad one.
Low_Speed_Notper8or
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If your not going to worry about pocket carrying, get a makarov, and get one in 9x18mm. Its cheap accurate and dead nuts reliable out the box. And 9x18mm makarov is cheaper and slightly more powerful(also has a slightly bigger bullet) then .380
When I was a broke college student I had a Bulgarian makarov that sat in my nightstand. car center console, and occasionally coat pocket. I never had a malfunction with it and its the most accurate gun I own and even today I have the utmost confidence in that gun for just about anything but dealing with multiple attackers.
The thing I really love about the makarov is it is very accurate,and with that accuracy you can make up for alot of the inherent weakness of .380 or 9x18, especially since hollowpoints are not really a good idea in that weak of a caliber
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