Looking to add a 380 but which one?

[sean m]

I have two Ruger LCPs, a first gen and a second gen(recently acquired). The second gen trigger is far better than the first gen, but I am going to continue to carry the first gen. since I have not finished checking the second gen for reliability.
I will say that the recoil from such a small and light 380 is pretty substantial and after about 25 shots, I'm ready to put them down.

 

[Hasaf]

I have two Ruger LCPs, a first gen and a second gen(recently acquired). The second gen trigger is far better than the first gen, but I am going to continue to carry the first gen. since I have not finished checking the second gen for reliability.
I will say that the recoil from such a small and light 380 is pretty substantial and after about 25 shots, I'm ready to put them down.

I can pretty well blast all day with my Kimber, PK 380, and Glock 380s'. The Colt Government model .380, that was mentioned by another reader, is a very comfortable shooter. . . if it just had better sights.

 

[gc70]

I've heard differing versions on whether or not the MC14 is direct-blowback or short-recoil locked breach. Looking at the lug under the barrel, if the barrel travels to the rear, wouldn't that lug engage the frame and move upward? Or maybe the barrel doesn't move ?

The MC14 looks just like a Beretta 80-series pistol with an enclosed slide.



Zenith's MC14 manual is a hoot.
Page 10, Technical Specifications, lists Operating System as "short recoil, locked breech."
Page 11, Operating System, says "This model operates on the blow back recoil operating system. The slide never truly locks, but its mass holds it in place while firing."

 

[Hasaf]

Page 10, Technical Specifications, lists Operating System as "short recoil, locked breech."
Page 11, Operating System, says "This model operates on the blow back recoil operating system. The slide never truly locks, but its mass holds it in place while firing."

Here you are seeing why I was not clear and decided not to get the MC 14. I would still be interested in one if page 10 is correct. I think that later today I will try to find a contact there, write them, and get an actual answer. One I get an answer from them I will post it.

Here is the letter I just sent:

There has been a bit of discussion about your MC 14, .380, Pistol. I considered your pistol when I got my PK380 and would still be interested in the MC 14; but I have a question.
Is this a blow back or locking breech pistol?

The manual is unclear:
Page 10, Technical Specifications, lists Operating System as "short recoil, locked breech."
Page 11, Operating System, says "This model operates on the blow back recoil operating system. The slide never truly locks, but its mass holds it in place while firing."

So, which is it?
If it is a Short Recoil, Locking Breech pistol I will buy one. If it is a Blow back system, then I am not interested.

 

[jstert]

a makarov style 380acp with the aftermarket fab grip is a great shooter. no slide bite on the web of my hand, with or without the fab, unlike that from a bersa thunder.

 

[wally]

Like my cz, don't remember the name, but i think they make just one.

CZ83
Nice pistol if you want a large and somewhat heavy .380. Not the easiest to find.

Really all depends on if the OP wants it for "less recoil" or "smaller size".

As to the Walther PK380, my friend who is a real Walther fan, considers it his worse gun purchase ever.

 

[greyling22]

my glock 42 has a better trigger pull than any other stock glock I have ever handled. maybe yall got bad ones or maybe I won the lottery.....

I did take the g42 and a smith made walther ppk/s out to the range one day. despite the walther weighing nearly 2x as much, the glock had about half the felt recoil. Now, I know the op said he didn't want a glock, and that's fine, but I would really take a hard look at some of the newer plastic guns rather than the older stuff. I really hated shooting that ppk/s.

 

[If1HitU]

G 42 or M&P BG 380's I own both.

 

[Tallball]

I don't understand. If the OP can't CC, why would she or he want a pocket pistol?

I own and have owned small 380's. They are nice for CC. But compared to a medium-sized "holster pistol" like a Makarov or Beretta, they are not accurate or fun/easy to shoot, and their capacity is small.

Note: IIRC, a Browning BDA is a Beretta 84 that is only cosmetically different.

 

[bnolsen]

Not mentioned yet is the witness pavona 380 which is a blowback design. I've only handled the 9mm at a gun show but never shot one. Cz pattern and reasonable. My wife does like her bersa thunder and it's a good shooter. Definitely kill that mag safety!

 

[bersaguy]

For a 380 that is not going to be concealed, that Beretta 84 is slick. The question I run into when concidering a larger heavier 380, is why not bump up to 9mm? But I'm sure the OP has his reasons. So, my vote goes to either the Beretta, or for something smaller, that is dead nuts accurate....cant beat the value of a Bersa thunder 380. It's a blowback design, but the weight makes it comfortable to shoot, and the fixed barrel makes it quite accurate, and the brand makes it quite affordable....win, win, win

 

[lsudave]

For a 380 that is not going to be concealed, that Beretta 84 is slick. The question I run into when concidering a larger heavier 380, is why not bump up to 9mm? But I'm sure the OP has his reasons

OP stated no carry due to draconian state (NJ), shooter for wife (going to assume the standard "she's a small lady who's not comfortable with recoil"; this applies to my own lady too). So, go with the bigger guns. They are still not BIG guns, so they're going to be physically easy to handle.

I don't have much direct experience, but some indirect: I have a bunch of 9x18 Mak caliber pistols, and my brother has a Bersa Thunder in .380. The FEG PA-63 is about the same in characteristics to the Bersa, single stack aluminum frame, blowback action, mag release by the trigger guard. 9 Makarov is a more potent rd, where the Bersa in .380 is pleasant to shoot, the FEG in 9x18 is painful. So since the design is similar, I'm going to assume the recoil difference is due to the rd. I think you can get a new Bersa for the price of a surplus FEG, or reasonably close. The Bersa is still being produced, and they have a lifetime warranty that they honor (my brother's got cooked in a car fire, and they replaced it without question).
I have a CZ 82 in 9x18 that is very comfortable to shoot, I have to think .380 is going to be softer. I think there are surplus guns coming in still (check on gunbroker) for a good price- the gun is overbuilt for this rd and you shouldn't be able to hurt it. I'd say that or the Berettas on gunbroker would be the best deals, most comfortable shooters, and the guns you'd most like to fondle and enjoy.

The Makarovs are good shooters, the mag release is in the heel, so that might be a problem.

My vote is a surplus Beretta or CZ.

 

[zaitcev]

I thought perhaps a Walther PK380 but I've heard mixed reviews on it.

Take a look at the longer version of Browning 1911-380. Yes, it's a plastic gun, but trigger is not bad and it's the softest-shooting .380 that I found (e.g. better than even G42 with SI+2). It is basically what PK380 should be. I heard that the problem with PK380 is that it was originally developed by Umarex, even before they bought Walther. Both PM380 and 1911-380 are plastic, but the difference in quality is quite pronounced. It has some quirks, in particular I feel like the rear sight notch is a bit too narrow, and a lot of them cannot eject unfired rounds.

The Beretta 84 is a fantastic gun. The quality is impeccable, or at least used to be. It's a classier, but also a significantly heavier pistol than Browning (not to mention PK380 heh). But surprisingly, the recoil can be a bit biting. I found that it depends on how you hold it quite a bit. As soon as I start crowd up on the slide, like modern shooting is done, it starts to hurt. If I hold the 84 like a novice, it's fine. Well, it's still a noticeable recoil but at least it does not hurt that way. There is a NY version of 10-round magazines for it. Mecgar makes great magazines for half the factory price. One downside is, a 84 can be difficult to rack, especially when new. The grip area of the slide is narrow.

BTW, for whatever reason, I had a lot of trouble adjusting to the paddle mag release on PK380. I have no issue with paddles on real Walthers and HK guns, but Umarex did something wrong with its placement. It was not enough just to change the grip a bit, I had to rotate the gun significantly in the grip. Maybe my hands are oddly shaped. But overall I was disappointed not just in the quality.

 

[C0untZer0]

The question I run into when concidering a larger heavier 380, is why not bump up to 9mm?

One of the people who put out a video on the MC-14 said it was such a soft-shooter that it was like shooting a .22LR, very enjoyable, and she could shoot it all day at the range. From a self-defense perspective, a locked-breach 380 is easier to keep on target, you can put more shots on target more quickly than with a 9mm, and there is 380 ammo out there now that will penetrate 13" to 14" through IWBA protocol and FBI clothing tests.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

. One downside is, a 84 can be difficult to rack, especially when new. The grip area of the slide is narrow.

The Browning BDA .380 is the same gun with a closed slide. It fixes this by moving the safety lever to the slide, allowing better purchase. I also think they look way better than the 84s- but that's just my opinion. They may be a bit tough to track down at this point, but IMO, worth it. Great .380!

 

[C0untZer0]

the witness pavona 380 which is a blowback design.

I don't get this either. The Pavona's barrel has a lug, and the design seems very similar to the CZ75. The slide stop lever is integrated with the barrel pin, and I assume that pin has to go through the lug. How can that barrel not tilt?

Unless the schematic in the manual is incorrect.

 

[hdwhit]

Hi-Point.

Ugly. Heavy. But, they tend to be very reliable guns.

 

[gc70]

I don't get this either. The Pavona's barrel has a lug, and the design seems very similar to the CZ75. The slide stop lever is integrated with the barrel pin, and I assume that pin has to go through the lug. How can that barrel not tilt?

Unless the schematic in the manual is incorrect.

Is the schematic specific to the .380 model or does it depict the 9mm model, which is a locked-breech design?

 

[Hasaf]

The Beretta 84 is a fantastic gun. The quality is impeccable, or at least used to be. It's a classier, but also a significantly heavier pistol than Browning (not to mention PK380 heh). But surprisingly, the recoil can be a bit biting. I found that it depends on how you hold it quite a bit. As soon as I start crowd up on the slide, like modern shooting is done, it starts to hurt. If I hold the 84 like a novice, it's fine. Well, it's still a noticeable recoil but at least it does not hurt that way. There is a NY version of 10-round magazines for it. Mecgar makes great magazines for half the factory price. One downside is, a 84 can be difficult to rack, especially when new. The grip area of the slide is narrow.

Surplus Beretta 85f are available for $400. the difference between the 84 and 85 can be found in this Wikipedia entry.

83, 84 and 85[edit]
These models[2] are chambered for the .380 ACP (9 mm Short) cartridge. The 84 has a double stacked magazine with 13 round capacity, while the 83 and 85 have a single stacked magazine with seven and eight round capacity respectively, and resultant thinner grips. The 84 and 85 have a 3.81" barrel, while the 83 has a 4" barrel.

my glock 42 has a better trigger pull than any other stock glock I have ever handled. maybe yall got bad ones or maybe I won the lottery.....

I recently had some springs replaced in my Glock 42. According to my trigger pull gauge it is about a pound and a half lighter. However, it feels a lot better. I am still not going to put it in the same league as my single actions; but it is significantly better. That being said, I have not had time to get out and shoot it yet.

 

[zaitcev]

Unless the schematic in the manual is incorrect.

The hole is round in the .380 version of Pavona. Here's a screencap from a guy disassembling his unit:


Another gun that really should be a locked breech, but is regretfully a plain blowback is RIA Baby Rock.

 

[Bobson]

Is the G42 trigger “different” mushy, or is it the same as other Glock triggers?

 

[jmace57]

Just a vote for what it's worth for the CZ-83, with a second place for the Beretta 84.

 

[C0untZer0]

Is the schematic specific to the .380 model or does it depict the 9mm model, which is a locked-breech design?

Well the mystery is solved thanks to zaitcev. I think the schematic in the Pavona manual is a general graphic that is probably in a lot of the Witness manuals that follow the CZ pattern.

I magnified the manual, cut just the barrel from the picture and rotated it. The schematic seems to indicate a kidney shaped space cut out of the lug, like the traditional barrel shown below - but definitely not the actual barrel of the Pavona.

 

[Tallball]

If it's okay for me to mention, CDI Sales on Gunbroker seems to always have surplus Beretta 84's and CZ83's for sale. I forget where I got my Beretta 84, but my FiL and I both got our CZ83's there. Mine was right at $300, and his was a little less. I paid $330 or something like that for my surplus Beretta.

The Colt Government Model is a locked breech. It took me a while, but I haunted Gunbroker until I got one for $400. With the steel frame and the locked breech it has extremely light recoil. I am somewhat surprised that there aren't any pistols like that on the market today. If someone MUST have a semiautomatic instead of a revolver, a heavy locked-breech 380 would be the pistol to have for someone who truly dislikes recoil.

 

[zaitcev]

The Colt Government Model is a locked breech. It took me a while, but I haunted Gunbroker until I got one for $400. With the steel frame and the locked breech it has extremely light recoil. I am somewhat surprised that there aren't any pistols like that on the market today.

Did you specifically mean steel frame? The P238 and Kimber Micro descend from .380 Government and retain metal frames, although IIRC neither of them uses steel anymore. The Mustang comes in 2 varieties: plastic and alloy frames. And now there's also a model "911" from Springfield, which is basically the same design.