Lots of people in NY don't know about this one

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Pete D.

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In June of this year....NYS assembly.....
Don't know if has already been discussed here. This is in addition to the notorious SAFE enacted in January.
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A08108 Summary:
BILL NO A08108

SAME AS SAME AS S04017

SPONSOR Camara

COSPNSR

MLTSPNSR

Add S396-gg, Gen Bus L; add S265.46, Pen L; add S91-g, St Fin L; amd S210, Tax
L

Establishes a statewide database to maintain and track coded ammunition and
establishes penalties for individuals who violate such provisions; establishes
the ammunition coding system fund.
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A08108 Actions:
BILL NO A08108

06/19/2013 referred to codes
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A08108 Votes:
There are no votes for this bill in this legislative session.
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A08108 Text:
S T A T E O F N E W Y O R K
________________________________________________________________________

8108

2013-2014 Regular Sessions

I N A S S E M B L Y

June 19, 2013
___________

Introduced by M. of A. CAMARA -- read once and referred to the Committee
on Codes

AN ACT to amend the general business law and the penal law, in relation
to establishing a statewide database to maintain and track coded ammu-
nition and establishing penalties for individuals who violate such
provisions; to amend the state finance law, in relation to establish-
ing the ammunition coding system database fund; and to amend the tax
law, in relation to establishing a tax credit for manufacturers or
dealers who exchange old uncoded ammunition for new coded ammunition

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, REPRESENTED IN SENATE AND ASSEM-
BLY, DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

1 Section 1. Legislative findings. The legislature hereby finds that
2 each year in the United States more than thirty percent of all homicides
3 involving a gun go unsolved. Handgun ammunition accounts for approxi-
4 mately eighty percent of all ammunition sold within the United States.
5 Current technology for matching a bullet used in a crime to the gun that
6 fired it has worked moderately well for years, but presupposes that the
7 weapon was recovered by law enforcement. Ammunition coding is a new and
8 effective way for law enforcement to quickly identify persons of inter-
9 est in gun crime investigations.
10 S 2. The general business law is amended by adding a new section 396-
11 gg to read as follows:
12 S 396-GG. AMMUNITION CODING SYSTEM DATABASE. 1. THE NEW YORK STATE
13 POLICE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ESTABLISHING AND MAINTAINING AN AMMUNITION
14 CODING SYSTEM DATABASE CONTAINING INFORMATION FROM THE FOLLOWING:
15 A. THE MANUFACTURER REGISTRY. (I) EVERY MANUFACTURER SHALL REGISTER
16 WITH THE NEW YORK STATE POLICE IN A MANNER PRESCRIBED BY THE NEW YORK
17 STATE POLICE, AND SHALL MAINTAIN RECORDS ON THE BUSINESS PREMISES FOR A
18 PERIOD OF SEVEN YEARS CONCERNING ALL SALES, LOANS, AND TRANSFERS OF
19 AMMUNITION TO, FROM, OR WITHIN THE STATE.

EXPLANATION--Matter in ITALICS (underscored) is new; matter in brackets
[ ] is old law to be omitted.
LBD05578-02-3
A. 8108 2

1 (II) EVERY MANUFACTURER SHALL CODE ANY AMMUNITION FOR HANDGUNS AND
2 ASSAULT WEAPONS SOLD OR MANUFACTURED AFTER JANUARY FIRST, TWO THOUSAND
3 FOURTEEN.
4 B. THE VENDOR REGISTRY. EVERY VENDOR OF AMMUNITION SHALL REGISTER WITH
5 THE NEW YORK STATE POLICE IN A MANNER PRESCRIBED BY THE NEW YORK STATE
6 POLICE, AND SHALL RECORD THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IN A FORMAT
7 PRESCRIBED BY THE NEW YORK STATE POLICE:
8 (I) THE DATE OF THE TRANSACTION;
9 (II) THE NAME OF THE TRANSFEREE;
10 (III) THE PURCHASER'S DRIVER'S LICENSE NUMBER OR OTHER GOVERNMENT
11 ISSUED IDENTIFICATION CARD NUMBER;
12 (IV) THE DATE OF BIRTH OF THE PURCHASER;
13 (V) THE UNIQUE IDENTIFIER OF ALL HANDGUN AMMUNITION OR BULLETS TRANS-
14 FERRED;
15 (VI) THE CALIBER OF THE BULLET; AND
16 (VII) ANY OTHER INFORMATION DETERMINED NECESSARY BY THE NEW YORK STATE
17 POLICE.
18 EVERY VENDOR SHALL MAINTAIN THESE RECORDS ON THEIR PREMISES FOR A
19 PERIOD OF AT LEAST THREE YEARS FROM THE DATE OF THE RECORDED PURCHASE.
20 2. TO THE GREATEST EXTENT POSSIBLE OR PRACTICAL, THE AMMUNITION CODING
21 SYSTEM DATABASE SHALL BE BUILT WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF EXISTING FIREARMS
22 DATABASES. THE AMMUNITION CODING SYSTEM DATABASE SHALL BE OPERATIONAL NO
23 LATER THAN JANUARY FIRST, TWO THOUSAND FOURTEEN.
24 3. PRIVACY OF INDIVIDUALS IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE. ACCESS TO
25 INFORMATION IN THE AMMUNITION CODING SYSTEM DATABASE IS RESERVED FOR KEY
26 LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL AND TO BE RELEASED ONLY IN CONNECTION WITH A
27 CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION.
28 4. THE COST OF MAINTAINING THE DATABASE SHALL BE FUNDED BY THE AMMUNI-
29 TION CODING SYSTEM DATABASE FUND ESTABLISHED PURSUANT TO SECTION NINE-
30 TY-ONE-G OF THE STATE FINANCE LAW. VENDORS SHALL CHARGE AN ADDITIONAL
31 $.005 PER BULLET OR ROUND OF AMMUNITION TO THE PURCHASER. SUCH MONEYS
32 SHALL BE DEPOSITED INTO THE FUND.
33 5. ANY PERSON IN POSSESSION OF NON-CODED AMMUNITION MUST DISPOSE OF
34 SUCH AMMUNITION NO LATER THAN JANUARY FIRST, TWO THOUSAND FIFTEEN.
35 6. ANY PERSON WITH A VALID HUNTING LICENSE SHALL BE EXEMPT FROM THIS
36 SECTION, FOR A PERIOD OF THREE YEARS COMMENCING THREE YEARS FROM THE
37 EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION.
38 7. A. ANY MANUFACTURER THAT WILLFULLY FAILS TO COMPLY WITH THE
39 PROVISIONS OF THIS SECTION SHALL BE SUBJECT TO A FINE OF UP TO ONE THOU-
40 SAND DOLLARS FOR A FIRST OFFENSE; A FINE OF UP TO FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS
41 FOR A SECOND OFFENSE; AND A FINE OF UP TO TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR A
42 THIRD AND EACH SUBSEQUENT OFFENSE.
43 B. ANY VENDOR THAT WILLFULLY FAILS TO COMPLY WITH THE PROVISIONS OF
44 THIS SECTION SHALL BE SUBJECT TO A FINE OF UP TO ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS
45 FOR A FIRST OFFENSE; A FINE OF UP TO TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR A SECOND
46 OFFENSE; AND A FINE OF UP TO FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR A THIRD AND EACH
47 SUBSEQUENT OFFENSE. IN ADDITION TO ANY FINE IMPOSED PURSUANT TO THIS
48 SECTION, A VENDOR MAY BE SUBJECT TO A TERM OF IMPRISONMENT OF LESS THAN
49 ONE YEAR FOR EACH VIOLATION.
50 8. FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, "CODED AMMUNITION" MEANS A BULLET
51 CARRYING A UNIQUE IDENTIFIER THAT HAS BEEN APPLIED BY ETCHING ONTO THE
52 BASE OF THE BULLET PROJECTILE.
53 S 3. The penal law is amended by adding a new section 265.46 to read
54 as follows:
55 S 265.46 UNLAWFUL SALE OR POSSESSION OF UNCODED AMMUNITION.
A. 8108 3

1 A PERSON IS GUILTY OF UNLAWFUL SALE OR POSSESSION OF UNCODED AMMUNI-
2 TION WHEN HE OR SHE:
3 1. SELLS ANY AMMUNITION THAT HAS NOT BEEN CODED PURSUANT TO SECTION
4 THREE HUNDRED NINETY-SIX-GG OF THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW; OR
5 2. POSSESSES ANY AMMUNITION THAT IS UNCODED, OR THE CODE OF WHICH HAS
6 BEEN RENDERED UNREADABLE, EXCEPT IF SUCH POSSESSION IS WITHIN THREE
7 YEARS FROM THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION AND THE PERSON HAS A VALID
8 HUNTING LICENSE; OR
9 3. POSSESSES ONE HUNDRED ROUNDS OR MORE OF AMMUNITION THAT IS UNCODED,
10 OR THE CODE OF WHICH HAS BEEN RENDERED UNREADABLE, DOES NOT HAVE A VALID
11 HUNTING LICENSE, AND SUCH POSSESSION TAKES PLACE AT LEAST ONE YEAR AFTER
12 THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION.
13 UNLAWFUL SALE OR POSSESSION OF UNCODED AMMUNITION IS A CLASS A MISDE-
14 MEANOR.
15 S 4. The state finance law is amended by adding a new section 91-g to
16 read as follows:
17 S 91-G. AMMUNITION CODING SYSTEM DATABASE FUND. 1. THERE IS HEREBY
18 CREATED IN THE JOINT CUSTODY OF THE COMPTROLLER AND THE COMMISSIONER OF
19 TAXATION AND FINANCE, A FUND TO BE KNOWN AS THE AMMUNITION CODING SYSTEM
20 DATABASE FUND.
21 2. THE FUND SHALL CONSIST OF ALL MONEYS COLLECTED PURSUANT TO SECTION
22 THREE HUNDRED NINETY-SIX-GG OF THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW, OR ANY OTHER
23 MONEY APPROPRIATED TO THE FUND BY LAW.
24 3. THE MONEYS OF THE FUND SHALL BE USED TO ESTABLISH AND MAINTAIN THE
25 AMMUNITION CODING SYSTEM DATABASE CREATED PURSUANT TO SECTION THREE
26 HUNDRED NINETY-SIX-GG OF THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW.
27 4. MONEYS SHALL BE PAYABLE FROM THE FUND ON THE AUDIT AND WARRANT OF
28 THE STATE COMPTROLLER ON VOUCHERS APPROVED AND CERTIFIED BY THE SUPER-
29 INTENDENT OF THE NEW YORK STATE POLICE.
30 S 5. Section 210 of the tax law is amended by adding a new subdivi-
31 sion 46 to read as follows:
32 46. CREDIT FOR EXCHANGE OF UNCODED AMMUNITION. (A) ALLOWANCE OF CRED-
33 IT. A TAXPAYER SHALL BE ALLOWED A CREDIT, TO BE COMPUTED AS HEREINAFTER
34 PROVIDED, AGAINST THE TAX IMPOSED BY THIS ARTICLE, WHERE THE TAXPAYER IS
35 AN AMMUNITION MANUFACTURER OR DEALER AND ACCEPTS OLD UNCODED AMMUNITION
36 IN EXCHANGE FOR NEW CODED AMMUNITION.
37 (B) AMOUNT OF CREDIT. THE CREDIT ALLOWED IN THIS SUBDIVISION SHALL BE
38 EQUAL TO THE COST TO THE TAXPAYER FOR PROVIDING NEW CODED AMMUNITION IN
39 EXCHANGE FOR OLD UNCODED AMMUNITION, IN AN AMOUNT UP TO THREE HUNDRED
40 THOUSAND DOLLARS.
41 S 6. This act shall take effect on the ninetieth day after it shall
42 have become a law.
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That should put an end to ammunition sales in NY, forever. I would not comply as a manufacturer. I would simply sell more ammo to Wyoming or Montana.
 
That should put an end to ammunition sales in NY, forever. I would not comply as a manufacturer. I would simply sell more ammo to Wyoming or Montana.
Or Pennsylvania or Connecticut (Honestly haven't looked into wether CN requires any permits or other paperwork to buy ammo, disregard if it does) so NYers can got here to get their ammo. Like I do.
 
Sadistically, I hope they go through with it. Maybe that will make ammo more available everywhere else!

Eh, I'm kidding, but I do wish I could find some .45 ACP EFMJs. :(
 
I have to endure living in NY, and plan on driving the hour to PA for ammo, among other things, in the future. its not like they can close the market on ammo to residents in NY. no company would go through with this, and it will be almost as unenforceable as the safe act...
 
All the NY gun owners (and other states too) need to remember the delegates who bring these bills to the voting floor. They need to be removed from office.
 
SO how does this apply to people who reload ammo?
Are the bullets used coded as well or are reloaders exempt?
 
As someone who grew up went to college in NY, there is really no reason to live in that state if you value personal liberty. The SAFE act and miserable job market forced me out, and now I'm glad it did.

The grass is greener, get out while the getting is good.
 
The best solution might be for ammo manufacturers to stop selling in NY. Stop completely. Meaning no sales to NY Gov't agencies, either.

Probably too much to hope for.

Alternative might be for ammo manufacturers to pass on the entire cost of compliance to Gov't agencies, and keep civilian ammo sales at their current prices. :evil:
 
I don't know how many people realize how they sell pistol ammo in NYS. If you want to buy pistol ammo, you have to produce your registration card to the seller. This card has the pistols you own on it. If you only have a 9mm listed on the card, you can only buy 9mm ammo, no other caliber. My fiance lives in NYS and I refuse to move there and she knows why. When CT jumped into the dance this past summer, I vow to move out of CT as well ASAP. They won't get my tax dollars to further their illegal laws.
 
How would this even work? It suffers from all the same problems as microstamping even tho it solves some of the technical issues. How could it ever be used in court you justt jave to counter by suggestoing someone picked up your brass from the range and reloaded it
 
How would this even work? It suffers from all the same problems as microstamping even tho it solves some of the technical issues. How could it ever be used in court you justt jave to counter by suggestoing someone picked up your brass from the range and reloaded it
Stamped onto the base of the projectile.
 
you don't need to produce a permit to buy ammo, that just sounds like an overbearing lgs. I have bought 38's and 357's for a lever action before, and never had any problems.
 
I have no clue how this will affect reloaders, I reload myself, and like I said, I plan on going to PA for ammo in the future. My wife keeps hinting at wanting to move anyway, she already knows the only places I will consider out west or Alaska.

Growing up in a relatively free state (Michigan), it was culture shock when I first got over here. Most people around here feel the need to automatically ask permission for everything, be it a permit for a fire in your own back yard, or a safety course for boating that's mandatory, or a safety course for hunting, just to get a liscence. all a bunch of crap. want to do something in NY? get in line, and get ready to ask permission.....
 
I have no clue how this will affect reloaders, I reload myself, and like I said, I plan on going to PA for ammo in the future. My wife keeps hinting at wanting to move anyway, she already knows the only places I will consider out west or Alaska.

Growing up in a relatively free state (Michigan), it was culture shock when I first got over here. Most people around here feel the need to automatically ask permission for everything, be it a permit for a fire in your own back yard, or a safety course for boating that's mandatory, or a safety course for hunting, just to get a liscence. all a bunch of crap. want to do something in NY? get in line, and get ready to ask permission.....
but even if you get ammo in Pa wouldn't it be illegal to own in NY. or did I misunderstand the OP
 
you don't need to produce a permit to buy ammo, that just sounds like an overbearing lgs. I have bought 38's and 357's for a lever action before, and never had any problems.

I specifically said pistol ammo.

If you want to buy pistolammo, you have to produce your registration card to the seller.

long arm ammo des not require a permit, as you mentioned. I wonder if the new laws changed that?
 
I don't know how many people realize how they sell pistol ammo in NYS. If you want to buy pistol ammo, you have to produce your registration card to the seller. This card has the pistols you own on it. If you only have a 9mm listed on the card, you can only buy 9mm ammo, no other caliber. My fiance lives in NYS and I refuse to move there and she knows why. When CT jumped into the dance this past summer, I vow to move out of CT as well ASAP. They won't get my tax dollars to further their illegal laws.
When did this law you posted about get passed? I moved out of the state years ago but never have heard of having to show your pistol permit to buy handgun ammo.
 
Reloading

SO how does this apply to people who reload ammo?
Are the bullets used coded as well or are reloaders exempt?

The way that I read this is that reloaded ammo would be illegal because it would not be coded. The law states that possession of uncoded ammo is a misdemeanor, whether you load it yourself or buy it in another state is immaterial. Uncoded = illegal.
 
I haven't found indication on whether or not this bill was passed. I do not believe it has. Everything I see says "no votes on this". Anyone have any more details there?
 
And the glaring issue I see with this one, Is how do the cops tell if you have uncoded ammo if the code is on the base of the bullet and not visible? Do they pull bullets to check? that would be destruction of property I think....
I do not see this bill going anywhere...or at least not lasting very long if passed.
 
My fiance was told this a few years back when I asked her to pick me up some .45ACP on sale at a LGS. They refused to sell it to her because she did not have a .45ACP on her pistol permit. We weren't in NYC and she lives in upstate NY. I live in CT so I couldn't purchase it.

All I found in a quick search is this which seems to cloud up the answer.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2633672/posts
 
I see several issues. Unlike a firearm, we can't check the code on the bullet as it is being written up for sale. Unless somehow all the codes are in the barcode when scanned. Besides that, I see few if any manufacturers complying as production costs and times would be increased only to sell in one state. I hate to say it as many good gun owners live in NYS, but its time for the firearms business to close shop there. You'll see revenue drop, residents will leave, and well end up with another bankrupt state. If you can't reason with them, effect their revenue. Either way, I don't see this happening. If it does, it will fail fast.
 
I don't know how many people realize how they sell pistol ammo in NYS. If you want to buy pistol ammo, you have to produce your registration card to the seller

This is not law only SOME stores policy.
 
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