Lowest rail mounted red dot

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essayons21

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I'm looking for a red dot that can be mounted on a picatinny rail that keeps a very low profile, and more importantly can be viewed with a very low stock weld.

This is intended for mounting on a M500 with an Ace stock, but will probably also go on an AK with a standard stock. I've tried heads up shooting, but haven't been a huge fan. I've used Aimpoints and variants, Eotechs, and a C-more, and haven't been pleased.

The best options I have found so far look like the doctor optics and the burris fastfire, but I haven't had a chance to mount these on the intended guns.

Any advice is appreciated.
 
Have you tried the Aimpoint Micro red dots? They can be had with a factory mount that places the bottom of the sight about 1/4 inch over the rail. That mount removes with four kex head screws leaving a bare bones optic you can attach to any base, perhaps a custom made one to fit your exact needs.
 
Don't forget the Burris Fastfire II. It is small enough to be mounted on rifle, pistol or shotgun. I own one and it is hard to beat, and it is VERY small. It will take the recoil, if needed. If you were closer I would offer you a chance to shoot mine.

Another choice would be the Doctor red dot. It is made in Germany so you know it is quality. It is pretty much like the Burris.

Stay away from the Chinese CaCa red dots.
 
Aimpoint Micro.

Aimpoint also sells mounts that eliminate the rail and allow you to drop the sight even further.

BSW
 
I've shied away from the Aimpoint Micro because of the price. This optic needs to be able to withstand recoil up to 12ga, but I'm not really planning on abusing it or immersing it.

Does the Aimpoint do anything better than the Vortex Sparc or the Fastfire to justify the 3x price increase?

Also, between the Aimpoint Micro/Sparc and the Doctor/Fastfire style, which has the lower viewing angle?

I'm familiar with Aimpoint's battery life, what is battery life like on the Sparc and Fastfire II?
 
The real value of the Aimpoints is their durability and battery life that is approximately 5 years of being left on. The Vortex Sparc is about 120 hours on normal (mid level) mode. The Fastfire has a 20,000 hour battery life which is good, but the sight is not rugged. You can buy the additional shield for it that costs another $60 or so.

The Sparc is a decent deal for the money, but I don't consider it to be a very serious sight. By that, I mean that I would not want it as a primary for a SD gun. For plinking, sport, hunting, etc., it would be fine. I don't know the Fastfire except for handling them (not using) and don't think they are very substantial.

Lower viewing angle? What do you mean?
 
If it's on a 12ga, it's being abused.

Like the other guy said, what's the gun being used for?

If people might die (or fail to die) because your sight crapped out, go irons or Aimpoint.

If it's a range toy, try stuff and see what you like.

BSW
 
Primary use will be on a Mossy500 that is used for HD. Optics fail so it will keep the big dot tritium bead that is already on it.

However this gun sits by the bed 99.9% of the time and is taken to the range every few months. Mostly low recoil buck and slugs.

Most of my optics spend time on various guns, so it will probably see some use on top of ARs and an AK.

So the question remains, for my uses does the Aimpoint do anything to warrant the $2-300 price jump? As of right now the insane battery life is really the only huge difference I see.

Edit: Had a c-more didn't like it. Same with the Trijicon Reflex. Used the Aimpoint CompM2 and M4 and Eotechs. They work on M4s but not ideal for my uses. The key for me is the ability to be able to see the sight with minimal parallax with my eye only slighly above the barrel of the gun. I've narrowed my choices down to the Jpoint, Fastfire, Doctor, and Vortex Sparc. Maybe an Aimpoint Micro if I can get a good deal on one used. I'm really looking for anyone with firsthand experience on viewing angle, battery life, and reliability on the above mentioned optics.
 
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on a aimpoint T1? that thing is sweet. battery life is like 3 years, it can get super bright, but only after you turn it on past 6 you can see the dot. it works well both eyes open
 
The Trijicon RMR Dual Ill. Sight is probably about as low as you can get, and you won't even need batteries at all (operates on fiber optics & tritium)!

:)
 
Aimpoint micro T1 is la creme de la creme.

For an AK put it on either an ultimak gas tube or MI hand guard with the. It should allow for a proper cheek weld with a factory stock.

The T1 is not cheap but quality optics never are

Does the Aimpoint do anything better than the Vortex Sparc or the Fastfire to justify the 3x price increase?
Click to expand...

IMHO yes. It is much better built (I have a T1 and a fastfire) and will withstand a lot more. It also has additional features, brightness settings, battery life, etc. You might consider an R1 as a cheaper alternative to the T1. My go to gun wears the T1 but I'll likely get an R1 for one of my others. My fast fire has held up to use on a 12 gauge, so far at least. By the time you add a mount with protective wings the difference between a fast fire and an r1 (if you shop around you can find one for $360) is only about $100. Right now primary arms has the T1 with a riser mount for $520. Buy once cry once and know you have a very high quality piece of equipment.

So the question remains, for my uses does the Aimpoint do anything to warrant the $2-300 price jump?
Click to expand...

If your use is HD I think the extra money would be well spent. Just the difference in toughness and durability makes it worth that to me. Look for an R1 at a better price if money is a worry. The R1 lacks some of the features of the T1, but they are probably features that wouldn't matter much to you, like the features for night vision compatibility.
 
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The R1 (and I suppose the H1 which is just an R1 that is black) work just fine with night vision. In fact I had to turn the brightness up to 2-3 to get it to register on a gen 2 tube. Where the T1 really shines in my opinion over the R1/H1 is in water resistance. I believe the R1/H1 is water proof to 3 meters while the T1 is proof down to 100.

I don't take my guns swimming with me so I bought an R1 when they were on sale earlier this year. Now that T1's are getting closer in price I would go for one over the H1 (R1 now discontinued) just in case I get dumb enough to try scuba diving with my rifle.
 
So the question remains, for my uses does the Aimpoint do anything to warrant the $2-300 price jump? As of right now the insane battery life is really the only huge difference I see.
Click to expand...

You can get the H-1 model and same some money over the T-1 which has the first several settings that are for night vision.

Worth the extra money. It is a sight that is tremendously more rugged than the Doctor/Fastfire style.

Given that you don't have to turn off the light, you don't have to worry about turning it on in a crisis and given the long battery life, you know it is going to be working when you pick it up. Think of that extra $200-300 being paid for reliability for when your life depends on it. Surely you and your family are worth the expense.

You can cut corners on your plinking and fun gear and maybe you have a shortened range session because your cost savings ended up being at the expense of durability or reliability. For SD/HD, cutting corners isn't prudent.
 
You said you tried an Aimpoint and didn't like it? What kind of ring did you have it mounted in? The lowest red dot you can get is a regular tube-bodied Aimpoint in a low ring. However if you had it in a high ring, like what you would put on an M4, that is probably why you didn't like it. That would definitely put it too high for a traditionally-stocked weapon.
 
The main issue with the Aimpoints I have tried (m68s, compm2/m4) was the bulk. Haven't tried the micro.

For rifles I have gone back to either irons or magnified optics instead of red dots. For me the red dot is most useful when shooting at night, in obscured conditions, and from unwieldy firing positions. Since I don't do too much of this with my personal rifles, most of them wear irons only. On my issued weapons, I like ACOGs.

As I mentioned before I've tried a few different red dots on my HD gun, never really liked them and went to a tritium big dot. With the newer, smaller and more reliable optics that have come out recently I've decided to give it another shot.

I generally prefer open style red dots over tube style because I can see the dot from a wider angle and it blocks out too much of my vision when looking through it from angles other than directly aligned with the optic.
 
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Red dot optics are designed to be used with both eyes open. If both eyes are open and focused on the target tube type sights don't block anything. IME open type dot sights are more easily compromised by rain, snow and anything else that lands on the emitter. They are also much more easily compromised by light relections from behind. They generally mount significantly higher than most tube type RDS.

Personally, I like low powered scopes for most purposes rather then RDS. But, there are at least two issues with the low powered optics. One, you can't cowitness backup irons through a scope and two, eye relief and angle of view is much more limited.

I see RDS as a subtitute for iron sights where personal vision issues may make irons unusable. A low powered scope is much more versatile if the added weight and less rugged sight is OK.
 
The intended use of this optic is HD, so distances are extremely short. A low powered optic won't do.

A tube type red dot of the size of the M68 Aimpoint certainly does not disappear when shooting with both eyes open. Nor does any other optic I've shot. Certainly your non-dominant eye has a mostly unobstructed field of view, but the scope housing, mount, windage adjustments, etc. doesn't go anywhere. Not sure what you are trying to say?

I know that the smaller open type red dots are less bulky and therefore obstruct less, I haven't tried a Micro-sized tube style red dot like the T1. It definitely looks good on paper, however I'd really like to at least look through one mounted on a gun before dropping $600.
 
See my post #19

In a real HD situation your vision is going to be riveted on the threat. You will most likely have tunnel vision and auditory exclusion. The amount of visual field obscured by the body of a properly mounted RDS will be the least of your concerns.

Added: If the range is likely to be less than 50 feet or so there is a lot to recommend high visibility iron sights. I have a XS Sights Big Dot front sight on my HD AR. Using the small A2 rear aperture and the top of the front sight like a post I can put 10rnds into 2" at 25yds. Using nose to the charging handle indexing, the large A2 aperture and the dot center of mass I can put 10 rds into 6" at 25yds rapid fire in low light (weapon light). I consider this more than adequate.
 
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Primary use will be on a Mossy500 that is used for HD.
Click to expand...

For this use I would say you don't need/want a dot. If you must you don't want one with buttons, switches or a battery. That leaves only a few of the tritium/fiberoptic self adjusting reflex sights.

What is a good optic for offence doesn't alwasy make a good optic for defence. In other words you could be dead before you get some of them on and adjusted for brightness.
 
That's definitely a consideration. As I mentioned before I already have a Tritium big dot bead on the gun, and I really view the red dot as a secondary. If I don't like it, it will come off and go on an AK or AR.
 
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