M-4 or AK 47 for Home Defense

[Matt304]

For those who are so eagerly voting towards their M4s which they own, I found it interesting that so many would choose the less-reliable weapon for home defense. Is there a reason you are making a poorer choice, reliability-wise, for the defense of your home? Maybe because your M4 has those pretty dark black accessories on it?

Someone already said it. AKs are available in 5.56x45. So you can't tell me you would choose the AR because of its caliber.

Since you've got me on the topic, I don't think a rifle variant of either is the best choice with penetration in mind. And since we are in a house, we need a CQB weapon, like pistol or SBR...not a rifle. Who wants to fumble a rifle around in a closet or wherever you end up? If you are so set on .223 for HD (which I am not), than go buy yourself one of these:

 

[BOONER]

Another one..

 

[TexasRifleman]

If you are so set on .223 for HD (which I am not), than go buy yourself one of these:

No thanks, I'd rather have one of these.

And define "reliable". This one has between 6000-7000 rounds and has never had a failure that was not ammo related (my reloads mostly I'm not too proud to say, which of course would never be used for "real").

Those "pretty dark black accessories" are important, especially the light. You're not going to go through your house in the middle of the night and not have a light to see who you might be shooting are you?

But again, the most important choice here is not the platform, it's the ammo. This one gets 75gr TAP for at home use.

 

[Matt304]

TexasRifleman, I'll quote myself again just for $hits and giggles.

"Maybe because your M4 has those pretty dark black accessories on it?"



All I can say is that you would never catch me pulling that contraption out of the dresser drawer for home defense, or wherever you choose to keep it.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Right, you mean useless stuff like the light, to make sure who you are shooting and maybe, just maybe, decide that's not someone you want to shoot.

I can't even begin to conceive of using a firearm in your home without a light; handgun, shotgun or rifle.

No, I understand completely, who cares about accessories

But hey, you will notice i DID keep the one part of an AK that works well, the Krink FH

 

[Firepower!]

Booner

Hey man
I will check the Mag makes and get back with you. I think however they are by HK, and two are some chinese CQ.
I am no too familiar with gas rings issue.

 

[Matt304]

Booner:

Another one..

I'm not trying to turn this into an argument (which it already was introduced as to begin with). But since you explained to us how vastly superior the .223 is for home defense penetration, I thought that I would also provide a little bit of insight and say yes, it is also available in other variants besides the AR. If that is your fancy of course. Can I not help but show the side of me which despises the millions of AR followers that have developed through combination of black plastic and a cosmetic binge? At times no, I just cannot help myself but to point out that there are superior weapons out there. Sorry if you catch me doing so. I'll try not to slip anymore around our AR fans.

TexasRifleman, no the light is fine, so long as it is pressure activated. The thing that I get at is too many things you have to screw with to fire the gun. I just want something I can pull out and shoot. If you are not having reliability issues at all, then that is wonderful and I hope it stays that way. I have just experienced more problems with the AR gas system over the AK gas piston system.

 

[SSN Vet]

no one else seems to have approached it from this angle, so I'll dive in....

for many the decision will depend on whether you have $500 to invest in the tool, or $1,000 to invest.

my converted Saiga is for fun and for SHTF.

for HD it's still a .357 wheel gun in one hand and a flashlight in the other.

In my tool chest I have a drawer with about 15 different Philips head screw drivers. On one hand each one can do something just a little bit different than the other...but then on the other hand, they all do the same thing.

Bottom line....if you don't have at least one reliable Philips head screw driver in your tool box.....you're screwed!

 

[uzimon]

the 762 round is less likely to deflect going thru anything, even sheetrock.
box-o-truth (a site where guys test ammo effectiveness) tested all types of 223 ammo on sheetrock, the 223 zings off at an angle after passing thru.
the 762 round plows right thru

so to answer your question, is accuracy more important than unintended hits?
the 223 round is certainly more accurate, so i'd use it to snipe off targets at over 50 yards, but the ak has the knock down power

 

[collateral]

If you haven't shot either of them yet, try to shoot both, and see which one you prefer.

I myself have to recommend the AR. I love my AK and everything, but I dont think there is enough selection in good defensive 7.62x39 ammo.

Either way, whatever you decide to feed your gun, shoot it before you rely on it for HD. Make sure its not prone to jams or failures to feed. Some ammo just doenst agree with some guns.

 

[uzimon]

here's the proof of what i cited

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

 

[TexasRifleman]

here's the proof of what i cited

Box of truth is very interesting. His tests disagree with nearly every other test done, but I can't see anything wrong with his methods.

The zillion other tests show 5.56 fragmenting but Box O Truth never sees that.

I'm not quite sure what to make of that to be honest.

 

[MarshallDodge]

For those who are so eagerly voting towards their M4s which they own, I found it interesting that so many would choose the less-reliable weapon for home defense. Is there a reason you are making a poorer choice, reliability-wise, for the defense of your home? Maybe because your M4 has those pretty dark black accessories on it?

Right.....

Mine is a CAR in 223, I built it myself, it's been 100% reliable, and is accurate. It does not serve as my home defense. I have a "unreliable" 1911 and a shotgun that serve that purpose.

Don't believe all of the Internet myths.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

The zillion other tests show 5.56 fragmenting but Box O Truth never sees that.

What tests show that 5.56 frags in dry wall?

5.56 is known to fragment in soft tissue when it is going fast enough (but it depends on the loading and bullet design)... but not in dry wall.

http://www.steyraug.net/223forcqb.htm

The FBI study clearly demonstrates the following: (1) that .223 rounds on average, penetrate less human tissue at dose range than the hollow point pistol rounds evaluated, (2) concern for over-penetration of the .223 round, at close range, has been greatly exaggerated, (3) with the exception of soft ballistic garment penetration. the .223 round appears to be relatively safer for employment in CQB events than this hollow point pistol bullets tested.

5.56 is safer for CQB because drywall and such slow it down much more making it "less lethal" because it brings the round under frag thresholds. When you hit your target it usually frags and doesn't go much further (if at all) which also makes it safer.

Makes no mention of fragmentation in dry wall.

 

[TexasRifleman]

5.56 is safer for CQB because drywall and such slow it down much more making it "less lethal" because it brings the round under frag thresholds. When you hit your target it usually frags and doesn't go much further (if at all) which also makes it safer.

Makes no mention of fragmentation in dry wall.

You're probably right. I guess the Box O Truth doesn't have any way of measuring the actual force left in the bullet.

I don't know enough about any of the tests to argue, I just hear people toss out the Box of Truth a lot as "proof" that 5.56 is bad for home use.

I disagree with that completely of course, since it's all I use.

I have to admit though I wouldn't want to be hit with one even after 5 or 6 pieces of drywall. That seventh sheet gets a nice hole in it

When you hit your target it usually frags and doesn't go much further (if at all) which also makes it safer.

And that of course is the most important point of all, which is why I am such an advocate of easy to use optics and lights for home defense, those "silly accessories" that are so easy to find for the AR platform.

 

[Walkalong]

Niether right now.

My Mini-14 is ready to go if I have time to get into my safe. If not, I guess I'll be bringing a pistol to a gun fight when I would prefer a rifle.

 

[strambo]

M4 or AK for home defense? Yes

A reliable example of either will do fine if the operator is up to the task.

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

I'm with the both have too much risk of overpenetration. That being said, if that isn't an issue for you (I don't see how it wouldn't be), AK!

More reliable, and if you are going to have to penetrate, go with the heavier, more powerful (in terms of kinetic energy) round.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I'm with the both have too much risk of overpenetration.

Click on the link I posted above and you will see that you are wrong about .223/5.56.

 

[HorseSoldier]

For those who are so eagerly voting towards their M4s which they own, I found it interesting that so many would choose the less-reliable weapon for home defense. Is there a reason you are making a poorer choice, reliability-wise, for the defense of your home? Maybe because your M4 has those pretty dark black accessories on it?

My Lewis Machine and Tool AR is significantly more reliable than my Century Yugo AK.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Double Tap.

 

[BOONER]

Matt304

when you have hard facts to back your comments up let me know other wise your take in this is useless, other than it's funny,

and the pressure switch is the weakest point of the whole light system but thats another story

I have a lot of time on several systems Ak and its variants. is one greather over the other no they both have there pro /con side.

but anyhow go snuggle your ak and ill snuggle my AR

 

[Matt304]

I apologize for my comments. I sort of generalized the crowd and now I really didn't mean to put it that way reading back. I think I was feeling a bit AK-ish earlier. I realize that they are both very rugged platforms. I just personally feel that the piston system is something a bit more reliable for continued use. Again, to each their own and no two firearms are alike, this is just my gathered opinion.

 

[Groucho_]

AK-47 wouldn't be a bad gun to have tucked away somewhere. 7.62x39 SP ammo isn't too hard to come by.

 

[Firepower!]

Booner....magazine reply

I am using 2 diffrerent mags made by thermold and kay. Both are made in USA.