M1 Garand or M1 for a grand?

[30 dirty 30's]

Hey all,
I recently started shooting local M1 Garand Club shoots. This has been my first exposure to the M1 and I have to say, I love 'em! I was looking at CMP's site, they have HRA service grades for $660. They also have service grade specials for $950 and CMP specials for $995. I want to buy one to shoot, and shoot regularly. I'm not interested so much in collector value, I just want a rifle that is capable on the range and decent looking, not necessarily new but not totally beat up either. I would like to hear from M1 shooters about what would be a good buy and why. Also, I'm thinking .308 if I go with the CMP special. Can it shoot the 7.62 NATO and commercial loads?

 

[fpgt72]

That is a pretty tough one....I would however like to bring up if you ever go away from your local club some of the purists frown on the 308 versions....so that might be one thing to think about.

Buying from CMP is going to be the best deal bar none you can get on a Garand....I have yet to see a bad rifle.

 

[Double Vision]

I'm a big fan of the CMP. Be advised, once you start buying them it's hard to stop.
You may find you want a special and a service model. They're just so nice and fun.
It's also nice to have a .308 M1, even if you can't use it in club shoots.
Good luck!

 

[jr_roosa]

You should get both, actually.

I have a special grade in .30-06 and it will shoot about 2moa with handloads, 3 or 4 moa with greek ball ammo. It's basically a new rifle, looks really nice, and I have made it to Sharpshooter shooting NRA highpower matches with it, and my scores continue to slowly improve. I would say that it is capable of shooting Expert scores consistently in across-the-course matches, but probably not Master scores, and this is a non-bedded rifle with a match aperture and a match trigger.

I recently got a service grade, and it also will shoot about 2moa with GI ball replica handloads and it shoots the greek ball a little better than the special grade. I have won a Garand match with it.

I would get a .308 special grade (not legal for CMP as-issued Garand matches) and an HRA service grade. The specials will probably be around a lot longer than the service grades will, so I would say get the service grade first. You can get the trigger tuned, which will help accuracy immensely and still be JCG match legal for about $80. You can also drop in a hooded rear sight and national match front, and still be able to easily swap it back for as-issued matches. It's also worth having somebody verify good stock fit and get rid of any op-rod contact points, which will also improve accuracy and still stay in the as-issued rules.

I believe that the .308 has much less of an issue with ammo than the .30-06 Garands, mainly because the .308 has less powder in the case and subsequently less pressure at the gas port. I would keep bullet weight at 175 grain or less, and avoid any really hot-rod loads in it. Somebody with more knowledge on .308 garands will pipe in soon too.

-J.

 

[Reloadron]

Well here is pretty much what remains out there:

Service Grade M1 Garand:

Service Grade Rifles show less wear and better appearance than Field or Rack Grades. Good to very good condition. Rifle wear will be exhibited by worn and mixed colors of the parkerized finish. There may be some minor pitting on the metal parts. Wood will be either Walnut, Birch, Beech or other variety and will be basically sound but may have minor hairline cracks, dings, scratches and gouges. Wood may not match in color or type of wood. Wood may be of new production on Service Grade Garands. Bores will be generally good with only minor imperfections. The barrel crown may be nicked, but the muzzle will gauge "3 or less" and the throat erosion will gauge less than 5.

So overall you will be getting a pretty good rifle for your buck. Certainly fine for local club match shooting. Most of the service grade rifles I have seen of late have been some really nice rifles well exceeding the above quote.

Looking a little more into the Service Grades:

M1 Garand, HRA (Harrington & Richardson)
Service Grade $625 Effective 1-3-2012
S&H $24.95 per rifle

Then we have:

M1 Garand, Service Grade HRA (Harrington & Richardson) Special.
Allow 60-120 days for delivery.
HRA collector grade metal in excellent almost new condition. Walnut stocks and handguards and associated hardware are new manufacture. NOT original HRA manufacture.

$950 Effective 1-3-2012
S&H $24.95 per rifle

The latter gets you all new lumber and associated hardware. However, many of the service grades I have seen for the $625 price have also had new lumber. That becomes a craps shoot. You won't go wrong with either and both flavors are in the original 30-06 chambering. The latter $950 rifles also seem to have better all around metal.

Moving along to the:
Special Grade M1 Garand

Here you have both chambering flavors. You can have 30-06 or the 308 Winchester (7.62 NATO). Your $995 S&H $24.95 per rifle gets you:

M1 Garand, CMP Special (.30-06)
Allow 120-180 days for delivery.
M1 Garand Springfield Armory receiver. This is a completely refurbished rifle consisting of an original M1 Garand Springfield receiver, new production Criterion barrel, new production American Walnut stock and handguards, and new web sling. Receiver and most other parts are refinished USGI, but some parts may be new manufacture.

or....

M1 Garand, CMP Special (.308)
Allow 120-180 days for delivery.
M1 Garand Springfield Armory receiver. This is a completely refurbished rifle consisting of an original M1 Garand Springfield receiver, new production Criterion barrel, new production American Walnut stock and handguards, and new web sling. Receiver and most other parts are refinished USGI, but some parts may be new manufacture. A .308 spacer block is installed to prevent the loading of a .30-06 round into the chamber.

As to the 30-06 verse 7.62 NATO chambering that is purely your call. My observation is the 308 chambering offers less recoil at a small cost of a few hundred FPS of muzzle velocity in the standard loadings. Nothing that will really matter much. Both of the special grade rifles will be excellent rifles that have been totally reworked and include a new barrel.

Also along the lines of chamberings be it 30-06 Springfield or 308 Winchester there are limits as to what you can shoot. The selected ammunition needs to conform to the M1 Garand gas system. A few ammunition manufacturers market ammunition tailored to the M1 Garand and a few loading manuals call out specific loadings tailored for the M1 Garand rifle in either chambering. There are also a variety of gas plug screws out there such as this one or also this one. I suggest you read the links to get an overview of what is going on with gas systems.

What you choose to buy is a matter of your personal taste and I guess your pocket book. I would make a decision and move on it as they won't be around forever and CMP is your overall best bet. Personally I would go with a special grade in 308 but what you want and not what I would get is what's important.

Just My Take....
Ron

 

[USSR]

I'm thinking .308 if I go with the CMP special. Can it shoot the 7.62 NATO and commercial loads?

The gas system remains the weak link in the Garand no matter what cartridge it is chambered for, so you should avoid commercial loads unless you use one of the adjustable gas cylinder lock screws that are available. As for which model to go with, the best value is the HRA Service Grade. I have several Service Grade Garands, and they have been good shooters for me.

Don

 

[Welding Rod]

I would definitely grab the SGS.

I have owned 4 Specials and they have contained some worn and / or well worn and / or worn out parts. These parts were refinished, but that doesn't take the wear away. To CMPs credit, they have replaced all the worn out parts I reported.

But the two of the most meaningful parts, the receiver and op rod are a bit harder to complain about. They might be well worn, but not worn out. On the receiver the rear sight elevation serrations may be worn down. Maybe the rear sight will hold elevation on firing, maybe not. Maybe it I'll only do with a fresh rear sight pinion with nice sharp nub.

On the other hand, the SGSs I have seen and owned have been essentially unused rifles, full of unworn parts, with only exterior handling scratches.

CMP is low on HRA SGS and out of SA SGS. Now is the time and it looks to be fading fast.

 

[shafter]

I'd say that the CMP Service Grades are the best deal there is on an M1 Garand. The Field Grades are a hundred cheaper, and I've had good luck with mine, but the Service Grade seems to be the best combination of price and quality. For a shooter that's what I would go with.

Keep in mind that the CMP also has a great deal on 30-06. You can't beat .50 cents/round for Garand-safe ammo.

 

[dprice3844444]

get the better one,less worries about parts etc,better quality.pay up front now rather than get it and find out you have to spend for upgrades etc.

 

[Orlando]

The $625 Service Grade will shoot as accurate as the guy behind the rifle
Get the SG and spend the rest of your money on a good leather sling and ammo

 

[carbine85]

I wouldn't go with a Filed Grade unless you pick it out yourself. Mine was so bad I sent it back. It was basically a beat up Rack Grade with a good muzzle. The Service Grade they sent me is awesome.

 

[leadcounsel]

They will never be more affordable than they are today.

I started with 1. Now have 5.

If you are close to the CMP in Ohio or Alabama, I highly recommend a visit so you can hand pick one or three.

Also keep your eyes on the used market.

 

[Hacker15E]

I'd start with a Service Grade and spend the $200 difference on 400 rounds of HXP ammo.

 

[Gtscotty]

I'm sort of in the same boat as the OP, but am leaning towards a SG in '06. To the folks who suggest picking a rifle out yourself, when you go to the CMP store, can you walk out the same day, assuming you meet all the requirements? If so, it seems like driving a few hours could save you 4 to 6 months of waiting.

 

[Orlando]

Yes you can but only problem now shelves are bare. Nothing to really pic from
All the panic buying has depleted graded rifles inventory and all rifles are now going to mail order

 

[Reloadron]

Yes you can but only problem now shelves are bare. Nothing to really pic from
All the panic buying has depleted graded rifles inventory and all rifles are now going to mail order

For anyone within a simple driving distance to either of the CMP stores I sure would suggest a phone call first just to make sure some inventory is in fact available. Beats a major bummer disappointment.

Ron

 

[leadcounsel]

Sad, that now or someday soon these fine rifles will dry up. My trip to the CMP a few years back was outstanding. I was able to hand pick an outstanding rifle, using throat gauges and getting the advice from the incredibly helpful staff. It was a great experience.

 

[30 dirty 30's]

Thanks all,
I'm set up to reload both .30-06 and .308, I've been reading up in my different manuals about loading for the Garand and it doesn't look like anything too special is required.
I want a rifle that I can put 50 rounds through every month or two, nothing too formal, just shooting and reloading purely for the enjoyment of it. If the Service Grades are as good as most of you are saying they are, I think I'll go with one of those and spend the difference on bullets and powder, as loading the .30-06 to 2700fps with a 150gr bullet uses only about 10 grains more powder. At the $370 price difference I'd have to do a lot of shooting before I'd see the savings with the .308. Bullets, primers, and casings all cost the same so that 10 grains of powder wouldn't add up to much.
The matches I shot were borrowed club rifles, if I had to guess I'd say field grade or low service grade. Twice I shot 360 out of 500 doing the NRA high power courses of fire at 100 yards with NRA 25 yards pistol targets. It was a blast. According to the RO I qualified Expert. I've been shooting rifles for almost 20 years now so I expected to do ok, but 1 first place and 1 second place finish really are making me itch to get a rifle lol.
Are the M1's fussy about military primers? Do they slam fire with CCI's and Federals?

 

[Reloadron]

Are the M1's fussy about military primers? Do they slam fire with CCI's and Federals?

CCI manufactures the #34 and #41 primers especially for loading for military rifles.

Military-style semi-auto rifles seldom have firing pin retraction springs. If care is not used in assembling ammunition, a “slam-fire” can occur before the bolt locks. The military arsenals accomplish this using different techniques and components—including different primer sensitivity specifications—from their commercial counterparts. CCI makes rifle primers for commercial sale that matches military sensitivity specs that reduce the chance of a slam-fire when other factors go out of control*. If you’re reloading for a military semi-auto, look to CCI Military primers.
*Effective slam-fire prevention requires more than special primers. Headspace, chamber condition, firing pin shape and protrusion, bolt velocity, cartridge case condition, and other factors can affect slam-fire potential.

I believe Wolf also markets less sensitive primers for applications like this. The object is just to use less sensitive primers. This is just to work on the side of safety. Long before CCI offered these primers I was using standard CCI primers to load for my M1 Garands. Years ago Federal always had a reputation as being sensitive so I avoided them.

Ron

 

[cfullgraf]

Are the M1's fussy about military primers? Do they slam fire with CCI's and Federals?

Generally, Garands are not slam fire prone as long as they are properly handled and loaded.

I use CCI and Winchester primers without issue in my Garands. I have avoided Federal based on their reputation to be more sensitive but I have no first hand experience with them.

There is lots of discussion on Garand slam fires. While I will not dismiss the possibility, I feel a portion of the slam fires are really doubles from "milking" the trigger when trying to shoot very accurately.

The main key to avoiding slam fires is to make sure the primer is seated properly. It should be seated below flush. A high primer will be slam fire prone.

Also, make sure the bolt and firing pin channel are clean of grease and preservative. The firing pin is designed to float and any debris in the firing pin channel could prevent the firing pin to float. A new to the owner Garand should be disassembled and completely cleaned. It is amazing where the cosmoline finds itself.

Finally, it is not advisable to allow the bolt to slam home on a single loaded round without some kind of clip in the magazine. The act of stripping a round from a clip slows the bolt down a little and therefore it will not hit home as hard.

If single loading without a clip, ease the bolt forward until it is part way home and then release it. Or, use a SLED which is basically the same as the rifle stripping the round from a clip. (This is my preferred method of single round loading).

When loading from a two, five or eight round clips, release the clip latch and let the bolt go home from the full rear position.

Hope this helps.

 

[30 dirty 30's]

Thanks again all.
I have used CCI BR-4's in my AR and CCI 200's in a rem 7400 (not sure if that has a floating firing pin or not) Freaked my dad out the first time he noticed the firing pin dent on rounds cycled through his AR. I was curious if it was a must with the Garand or more for peace of mind. I'll still try to get the CCI military primers but I won't let a short supply stop me from shooting!

 

[rattletrap1970]

In March of this year I picked up the following rifles from an estate sale of some hoarder guy who passed away. The family had many houses filled from floor to ceiling to contend with and just wanted to get rid of what they could.

I got each of these for $50

Springfield M1 Garand (1945) (Invested $50+$147 stock+$333 barrel & Refinish).
Alpine M1 Carbine (one of the few true clones) ($50+$125 stock)
J.C. Higgens model 50 30-06 (In progress, Will only use FN receiver)
Mossberg 500 12ga in black (buffed out barrel rust a slow rust blued to match)
High Standard tube fed .22

All the guns had water damage (the higgens was the worst, then the garand, then the carbine). I have since completely restored the M1 and the Carbine.

This was the Garand before and after:
















CARBINE

 

[mgkdrgn]

The HRA service grades will do you just fine. You don't need to go "special" to get a very special M1 when you are dealing with the CMP. Spend the extra money on ammo!

 

[Murphy4570]

Will the CMP ship out one of their higher end Garands with an original military stock? I would love to get one, but don't want a brand new stock. I prefer combat rifles that look like they have been in combat.

 

[Reloadron]

Will the CMP ship out one of their higher end Garands with an original military stock? I would love to get one, but don't want a brand new stock. I prefer combat rifles that look like they have been in combat.

Not sure about that but if you want some used (beater stock) wood I see stock sets at gun shows around here all the time. I would call CMP and ask. Take the better wood and save it.

Ron