M6 Survival: .22LR vs .22 WMR?

[PWC]

There are wild turkeys on Panama.

I had occasion to use the M6 as it was meant for in Jan 1966 at USAF Jungle survival school. The turkeys would sit in the top of the jungle canopy and gobble at me because they were out of range of the 410.

For a week, I ate a lot of palm heart and fire fried snake on a stick. One night, there was a Tapar scuffling around under my hammock, but I just got tangled up trying to get it with a machate.

Now, I would prefer a M6 capable of 20 ga and .223 / 5.56. Sometimes a .22 doesn't cover it. Survival doesn't always just mean food...sometimes it means getting better tools to survive with. The M6 was designed as a military survival tool to be used anywhere in the world. While I wouldn't want to escape and evade with only 2 shots at a time unless I had to, I would prefer a more effective tool than a .410/.22.

 

[chicharrones]

There are wild turkeys on Panama.

I had occasion to use the M6 as it was meant for in Jan 1966 at USAF Jungle survival school. The turkeys would sit in the top of the jungle canopy and gobble at me because they were out of range of the 410.

For a week, I ate a lot of palm heart and fire fried snake on a stick. One night, there was a Tapar scuffling around under my hammock, but I just got tangled up trying to get it with a machate.

Now, I would prefer a M6 capable of 20 ga and .223 / 5.56. Sometimes a .22 doesn't cover it. Survival doesn't always just mean food...sometimes it means getting better tools to survive with. The M6 was designed as a military survival tool to be used anywhere in the world. While I wouldn't want to escape and evade with only 2 shots at a time unless I had to, I would prefer a more effective tool than a .410/.22.

Very interesting. Regarding the military issue M6, did .22 Hornet out of that gun do what you needed it to do?

 

[PWC]

Very interesting. Regarding the military issue M6, did .22 Hornet out of that gun do what you needed it to do?

While students were separated living alone in the jungle, .22s were not issued for safety reasons. Can't speak to effectiveness or accuracy.

At that time, there was also a M4 bolt action 22 hornet survival rifle, collapsible wire stock. I had a friend in the Marines that said after the Viet Nam war, he was on a detail that deep 6'd a bunch of them off Okiwana. Well, most of them anyway.

 

[Varminterror]

The M6 was designed as a military survival tool to be used[…]

…only by flight crews flying in non-conflict, Arctic regions, and was abandoned for said purpose half a century ago.

 

[PWC]

…only by flight crews flying in non-conflict, Arctic regions, and was abandoned for said purpose half a century ago.

Survival kits were put on aircraft that routinely flew inter theater and were not changed out by mission. However, personal aircrew survival equipment was; especially pistols and even non-issued long guns.

I don't know when the M4 and M6 may have been removed from service.

 

[chicharrones]

While students were separated living alone in the jungle, .22s were not issued for safety reasons. Can't speak to effectiveness or accuracy.

At that time, there was also a M4 bolt action 22 hornet survival rifle, collapsible wire stock. I had a friend in the Marines that said after the Viet Nam war, he was on a detail that deep 6'd a bunch of them off Okinawa. Well, most of them anyway.

Once I learned of the M4, I always thought that would be a neat gun to own. Alas, no one that I know of made ready to go 16" barreled versions for non-military use. Nodak Spud used to make two different stocks to emulate the M4, but you had to provide a Marlin rimfire bolt gun to fit into it. Not exactly a turn key affair as only youth model Marlins had 16" barrels and those youth model rifles in .22 WMR were even more scarce.

If someone like TPS Arms made an "M4" that would've been more interesting to me than an "M6". But lightweight takedown rimfire guns are widespread now and they are almost all autoloaders. I've always liked bolt guns in this role better, probably because I simply like rimfire bolt guns over rimfire autoloaders in general.

 

[jmorris]

I don't know when the M4 and M6 may have been removed from service.

50 and 70 years ago.




Note they didn’t issue rimfires.

 

[jmorris]

This is what they picked in 2018.



https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/us-air-force-survival-rifle-gau5a-asdw/371228

 

[chicharrones]

Note they didn’t issue rimfires.

I figured @PWC was referring to the .22 Hornet as a 22. Much like someone in the military might say 45 in reference to .45 ACP.

 

[Varminterror]

This is what they picked in 2018.

View attachment 1154814

https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/us-air-force-survival-rifle-gau5a-asdw/371228

Looks a lot like what they picked in 1966 too.

Pretty simple - the M6 was designed to be cheap and light, acknowledging relatively pathetic performance, to be used specifically by flight crews in non-conflict zones in an era when radio and satellite communication was in its infancy (whether they remained in these aircraft when flown in theatre or not doesn’t change the design intent). They were phased out and replaced by semiauto Commando/M4ish rifles more than half a century ago. The applicability in their original military context was realized underperforming, and there really hasn’t ever been any civilian context where they M6’s were the best, or even a good option. It’s been hugely romanticized for generations now, in the same ways folks romanticize big bowie knives as “hunting knives” or “bug out bags,” but without the presence of imaginary dragons, most of actual utility of these ideas evaporate into mist.

 

[jmorris]

I figured @PWC was referring to the .22 Hornet as a 22. Much like someone in the military might say 45 in reference to .45 ACP.

I agree, was not questioning him. Just highlighting the choice back then as the other two rounds being discussed were not chosen for the intended use. Those only became a choice for civilian sales.

 

[Gun-Reck]

This is what they picked in 2018.

View attachment 1154814

https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/us-air-force-survival-rifle-gau5a-asdw/371228

The ATF - would have a conniption fit over that.

Nice.

Caliber choice would be interesting.

 

[Varminterror]

The ATF - would have a conniption fit over that.

They really wouldn’t. Pay $200, and as long as you’re not otherwise lawfully prevented from possessing it, then they issue the stamp and you live happy. SBR’s aren’t illegal, and nobody at the ATF is freaking out about them - there were over half a million SBR’s registered in the US before the new interpretation of pistol braces which just had a free registration window this spring, requiring destruction/modification or registration, hence there was expectation that we’d more than double the number of registered SBR’s during the last 3 months… again, being allowed to register for free BY the ATF, forgoing the NFA stamp tax of $200…

 

[Gun-Reck]

They really wouldn’t. Pay $200, and as long as you’re not otherwise lawfully prevented from possessing it, then they issue the stamp and you live happy. SBR’s aren’t illegal, and nobody at the ATF is freaking out about them - there were over half a million SBR’s registered in the US before the new interpretation of pistol braces which just had a free registration window this spring, requiring destruction/modification or registration, hence there was expectation that we’d more than double the number of registered SBR’s during the last 3 months… again, being allowed to register for free BY the ATF, forgoing the NFA stamp tax of $200…

Would be really interesting chambered in 6.8mm Remington SPC, or maybe 6.5mm Grendel.

 

[jmorris]

The ATF - would have a conniption fit over that.

Nice.

Caliber choice would be interesting.

It would require the same stamp that the SBR 10-22 I posted in #9 requires. Only difference is my 10-22 doesn’t require any assembly to become functional.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

I just bought a Springfield model in .22LR/.410

Got it for a steal and it’s in great shape. I wanted it for the parkered finish and the design of the butt is much closer to the actual M6.

 

[chicharrones]

I just bought a Springfield model in .22LR/.410

Got it for a steal and it’s in great shape. I wanted it for the parkered finish and the design of the butt is much closer to the actual M6.

Time for pics and shooting trials.

 

[PWC]

Now that's a true survival forearm for worldwide deployment.

As USAF Combat Controller, I had a CAR-15 from 1966-1979 when I left. CAR-15 and XM-177 are the grandparents of all the M-16 derivitives of what's used now.

 

[mavracer]

Would be really interesting chambered in 6.8mm Remington SPC, or maybe 6.5mm Grendel.

I was thinking you could go with a 300 Blackout and an even shorter barrel and get rid of the weight of the barrel disconnect.
You'd give up some range though.
I've shot small game with 38 special FMJ and LRN and can't imagine that a non expanding Blackout subsonic would be very destructing to small game.
May have to test that theory lol.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I was thinking you could go with a 300 Blackout and an even shorter barrel and get rid of the weight of the barrel disconnect.
You'd give up some range though.
I've shot small game with 38 special FMJ and LRN and can't imagine that a non expanding Blackout subsonic would be very destructing to small game.
May have to test that theory lol.

It has been theorized that a slow moving, heavy long bullet passes through small game without excessive damage as well as a short light bullet. I don't see why not.

 

[jmorris]

I just bought a Springfield model in .22LR/.410

Got it for a steal and it’s in great shape. I wanted it for the parkered finish and the design of the butt is much closer to the actual M6.

That’s what the one I have is.



Been awhile since I shot it so I ran a rack with it, still works..

 

[tactikel]

Plinking, Squirrel hunting, loafing, .22 LR. Camp defense .410 slugs or buckshot.