M6 Survival: .22LR vs .22 WMR?

[RetiredUSNChief]

I'm a long time fan of the .22 WMR, and my first gun was chambered in that. That Marlin 783 bolt action was a dream in accuracy and range, with plenty of power for small game/varmint.

However, I've some doubts as to the accuracy of the TPS M6.

Now, for me the only appealing thing about this rifle is its capability to break down for compact storage, which to me is only a plus when packing it for transportation. For carrying and ready use, I'm not seeing any benefits.

It DOES speak to my gadget persona, though. But it doesn't appeal at all to me esthetically...the AR7 would be a more practical .22 "survival" rifle in my opinion. But I won't go any further on that because that's not what you asked.

For much of what you listed as roles you'd see this in, the .22 LR would be perfectly well suited for. Strictly speaking, in a true "survival" situation in which these calibers and shotgun gauge would be suitable for, the .22 LR would be much better. This is because part of survival is being able to bag what you're hunting, not scaring everything off with the first shot. (Because the .22 WMR is LOUD.) So my recommendation would be for the .22 LR.

For defense, though? Any gun will work in a pinch, of course, but a single shot is an exceptionally poor choice to actually base a defense on regardless of caliber/gauge.

THAT SAID:

I'm a huge fan of "you do you". There's absolutely NOTHING WRONG with buying a gun you like, even if the only reason is because you like it. I've bought a gun or two for exactly that. So if it floats your boat, pick one up and have fun with it! And, of course, post your experiences here for us to enjoy.

 

[joneb]

I guess with a single shot you won't be burning through a lot of ammo.
This is a really tough question If I had to take down a deer I'd rather use a 22 mag.

 

[AJC1]

From every practical angle the 22 is superior. The .410 does not support that practical roll at all. A 12 or 20 would both be superior for exactly the same reason. If sound signature was a consideration a sub sonic 40g would be superior to a 22m. If there was a perfect answer the English would not have a million combinations of these multi purpose rifles. I'm keen on 22/357 as a way to hunt and defend in most situations.
Is the .410 chamber 45c capable?

 

[TTv2]

Can you shoot 45 lc out of the .410 barrel? With any accuracy?

If I wanted a single take anywhere rifle I would want more oomph than 22lr or 22wmr. I guess you could always use .410 slug for 2 legged predators if you had to.

Chaszel makes adapters for .410s, largest caliber is 9mm or .38 Special. They do recommend not to exceed standard PSI for the .38, yet the 9mm is equal to .357, so I would think some hotter .38 would be fine and 158gr of lead will do better than .22 Mag can.

 

[gotboostvr]

Whys that?

I was under the impression the M6 was the absolute rockstar of the bushcraft/survivalist movement?

It sounds better than it really is in practice.

They're a neat idea, but crude triggers and sights severely hamper it's abilities. You can absolutely fill your game pouch with one, but you'll have to accept some limitations inherent in a pretty simple, stamped parts screwed together gun designed to be as compact and utilitarian as possible.

It's probably the roughest finished combo gun made.

Even with nicer combo guns, there's arguments to be made for other firearm types for the purpose. A basic 10/22 (or Marlin M60) or Mossberg 500 would fill the same game pouch as quickly (and preform other duties even better as well)

But it is undeniably a neat, unique gun and not everything has to be the absolute most pragmatic, purpose driven tool.

 

[TTv2]

It sounds better than it really is in practice.

They're a neat idea, but crude triggers and sights severely hamper it's abilities. You can absolutely fill your game pouch with one, but you'll have to accept some limitations inherent in a pretty simple, stamped parts screwed together gun designed to be as compact and utilitarian as possible.

It's probably the roughest finished combo gun made.

Even with nicer combo guns, there's arguments to be made for other firearm types for the purpose. A basic 10/22 (or Marlin M60) or Mossberg 500 would fill the same game pouch as quickly (and preform other duties even better as well)

But it is undeniably a neat, unique gun and not everything has to be the absolute most pragmatic, purpose driven tool.

I agree that the M6 is not the ultimate in the survivalist game getter and defense bag, but I do think the combination .22/.410 is the superior choice. They're a simple design, break action, few moving parts, and with adapters allow the shooting of a variety of calibers that best suit the situation. I went with the Chiappa Double Badger, if folds almost completely in half, but it has two REAL triggers and for when I'm not in survival mode the wood stock looks a lot nicer. The M6 was built for decades of military use under a pilot's seat and the trigger system was built for use in the cold winter with gloves. It works for the Air Force, not so much for the regular Joe and the cost of them, even the Chiappa repro with its Styrofoam stock doesn't sit well with me.

I really don't see what 10 rounds of .22 LR in a semi auto offer that makes them better. Maybe if we're dealing with hostile people in groups, then I do, but now we're getting into a different survival mentality. If that is a concern, then a pistol will do just fine and ones like the Kel Tec CP33 are purpose built for making an SBR.

I like .410 for survival because it's light and compact, but effective at the proper distances. It may not be able to take as much game at 30 yards as a 20 gauge can, but at closer ranges it can be. The adapters I have talked about in the .410 are lighter than the 20ga and add a lot of versatility that can make a difference in extending the effective range of the gun and be more effective than .22 Mag or LR can. Those adapters are added weight, but they're added weight that is worth adding.

 

[jmorris]

I was under the impression the M6 was the absolute rockstar of the bushcraft/survivalist movement?

I have one and it wouldn’t be my first choice.

I can say this beyond a doubt though, if I thought for a second that I needed more power than the .22 LR, I would get a .22 Hornet version instead but I have killed hundreds of pigs with the lowly .22lr and it’s not as hard on little stuff I might want to eat.

That said, a hook and a fishing pole might be even more handy. If I had to rely on their accuracy to feed me.

 

[mavracer]

Chaszel makes adapters for .410s, largest caliber is 9mm or .38 Special. They do recommend not to exceed standard PSI for the .38, yet the 9mm is equal to .357, so I would think some hotter .38 would be fine and 158gr of lead will do better than .22 Mag can.

I'd be curious as to the accuracy of 9mm or 38 from these adapters.
And 158gr of lead is better for what exactly?

ETA I know how accurate my 22mag Savage 24 is and even though it's the least accurate 22 mag I own it'll still out shoot my 1894c Marlin or any of the 9mm PCCs I've had or been around. I can't imagine a slip fit adapter being real accurate.

 

[chicharrones]

That said, a hook and a fishing pole might be even more handy.

Mount a Zebco on top and get to it.

 

[TTv2]

I'd be curious as to the accuracy of 9mm or 38 from these adapters.
And 158gr of lead is better for what exactly?

ETA I know how accurate my 22mag Savage 24 is and even though it's the least accurate 22 mag I own it'll still out shoot my 1894c Marlin or any of the 9mm PCCs I've had or been around. I can't imagine a slip fit adapter being real accurate.

I do intend to test them as I have no idea how .410 adapters will do and the ones that Chaszel makes don't have an O ring for extra stability, at least not in the pictures. They're not going to have as much meat as the 12ga adapters do and I've gotten quarter sized groups in .45 with those at 25 yards.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I've been wishing for a long time that the .22mag would be offered in light loadings, like the CCI .22LR "Quiet" ammo. That would really give one both the .22LR and the .22Mag in one chambering. I only know of one light loading in .22 Mag and it seems like it is very hard to find. Sure you can fire a .22LR in a mag chamber, but for small game one wants accuracy, and I doubt that shooting the LR's in a mag chamber produces good accuracy. (or..???)

As far as 20 gauge goes, the 20 gauge to .410 adapters work very well, and throw good patterns. I've had excellent results with the "Little Skeeters". For survival, one can carry a lot of .410's compared to the 20's. But then you still have the option of packing some Brenekke 20 gauge slugs, "just in case".

My do everything survival (wilderness survival) gun is a 24-V .30WCF over 20 gauge. Light accurate small game squib loads for the .30-30 barrel, full power loads of course, 20 gauge slug and shot shells, and a little skeeter 20 to 410 adapter, with a handful of .410's. She covers all the bases.

 

[Picher]

Though a big fan of the .22 magnum, for a knockabout combo, I'd go .22 LR. Hitting small game with a .22 mag splatters the critter and ruins edible meat. Once upon a time I had a pesky rabbit getting into my garden. So I see Mr. Rabbit and had a .22 mag rifle in my hand (had bought it that week). The round turned the rabbit inside out. Were one to have a photo of that, he couldn't publish it here -- gory mess. I'll not even speak of the details.

For most small game-getting / survival purposes, standard velocity .22 LRs are more than sufficient. Very little meat damage and no loud report. Why announce to everyone that you are out there hunting?! You don't wish to disturb other game either. You can use the .410 for poisonous snakes ... whatever.

Poisonous snakes: Don't just step over logs. Send forward your walking stick first. Climbing rocks? Reach above with your climbing pick/axe, i.e. NOT your hand. People bit by rattlers rarely report having first heard the rattler -- you get bit, then the rattler rattles. There was a Texas ER physician who had the record for treating the most snake bites. At a convention lecture, he stated the above advice. Heard him say this myself; I was there. So, this isn't me talking, these are the words of a physician who'd treated heaven only knows how many hundred snakebite patients. Me, I've been massively lucky in not seeing lots of poisonous snakes, this even though I've spent many a day hiking and hunting in Southern Appalachia. A walking stick is your friend ... but those survival rifles sure do have their place also. Cotton mouths are FAST.

I don't believe there are any rattlesnakes in Maine, at least not in Central Maine, where I live. There are lots of small snakes, but not many big ones. I've never seen a snake in the woods bigger than about 1" diameter.

 

[Armored farmer]

I read most of the responses. All have validity.
IMHO, despite being a big 22mag fan, I would choose .22lr over the mag in your description of your intended use.
I prefer my 22mags in varmint guns.
If you're using to hunt small game, I like 22lr (or even shorts). It's MUCH more quiet.
22lr is suited for open sights ranges.
I really like my .22lr/.410 Savage 24. It's my favorite small game gun.

 

[jmorris]

I can't imagine a slip fit adapter being real accurate.

They are not but the adapter I machined in #14 is more accurate than the M6 in #9 is. That’s only one sample of each but all I have to base my opinion on.

 

[amd6547]

I had an M6 in 22 Hornet/410. It experienced case sticking with the Hornet round, bad enough that I would have to drop a cleaning rod down the barrel to clear it.
I sent it to Springfield Armory, where they checked it out, and declared “no problem”. Fired it once more, again with Remington soft points, and again, with case sticking. Got rid of it.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I really like my .22lr/.410 Savage 24. It's my favorite small game gun.

So do I. I've seen a picture of it. !! The .22LR is versatile, some of the Aguila loads are pretty hot. Again, if CCI, or anyone else would produce a .22Mag "Quiet" load that was accurate, that would put the .22Mag in the forefront.

The real beauty of the .22 Hornet is that you can load it from .22 "Quiet" levels, (I have a very accurate load that sounds about like an air-gun), to .22LR, .22Mag or of course to Hornet levels.

 

[Picher]

I read most of the responses. All have validity.
IMHO, despite being a big 22mag fan, I would choose .22lr over the mag in your description of your intended use.
I prefer my 22mags in varmint guns.
If you're using to hunt small game, I like 22lr (or even shorts). It's MUCH more quiet.
22lr is suited for open sights ranges.
I really like my .22lr/.410 Savage 24. It's my favorite small game gun.

Glad to see someone who loves the Savage 24. I had one and got rid of it because it didn't shoot where I thought it was pointed. Bottom line is that one full-choke shot isn't what I needed. I like either a double or semi-auto. The 24 I had was the Deluxe model and they had a full-choke bore, which I hated, because it destroyed a lot of meat. It also couldn't legally be used for duck shooting, if I had any rifle ammo on me. Duh! Bottom line, is I got rid of my 24 and haven't looked back. I'm better off, using an O/U 20 gauge and carry a .22LR handgun, if I want to shoot small game like squirrels.

 

[Varminterror]

I’ve had M6’s three different times in my life, and almost immediately in each instance, I have remembered why I got rid of the first.

Cute idea, but terrible execution, and has absolutely no advantage in any actual “survival” scenario over other superior options.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

I’ve had M6’s three different times in my life, and almost immediately in each instance, I have remembered why I got rid of the first.

Cute idea, but terrible execution, and has absolutely no advantage in any actual “survival” scenario over other superior options.

Care to elaborate why?

 

[Varminterror]

Care to elaborate why?

I’ll play along, acknowledging that with a handle like “JCooperFan,” this will fall on deaf ears.

First: The M6 sucks as a rifle. Terrible trigger, poor accuracy, poor ergonomics/shootability, poor sights.

Second: Even refining within its niche class, the M6 sucks as a compact rifle. It’s not actually that small, not actually that light (photo references provided by others above).

Third: Much like the Cooper Scout rifle, we have to play a pretty intense game of make-believe to fabricate a scenario where the M6 has applicability, let alone any advantage over other superior options.

But hey, if a guy wants to play bush-pilot who crashed on the tundra and has to hunt snowshoe hare to feed himself, and fend off bear and wolves, the disadvantage of the M6 in an imagined scenario won’t incur actual consequences beyond the money ill-spent.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

I’ll play along, acknowledging that with a handle like “JCooperFan,” this will fall on deaf ears.

First: The M6 sucks as a rifle. Terrible trigger, poor accuracy, poor ergonomics/shootability, poor sights.

Second: Even refining within its niche class, the M6 sucks as a compact rifle. It’s not actually that small, not actually that light (photo references provided by others above).

Third: Much like the Cooper Scout rifle, we have to play a pretty intense game of make-believe to fabricate a scenario where the M6 has applicability, let alone any advantage over other superior options.

But hey, if a guy wants to play bush-pilot who crashed on the tundra and has to hunt snowshoe hare to feed himself, and fend off bear and wolves, the disadvantage of the M6 in an imagined scenario won’t incur actual consequences beyond the money ill-spent.

All I’m going to say to that is it’s one of David Canterbury’s most favored shooting pieces for field work.

It also has a huge following in the bushcraft and prepper communities. That reputation didn’t come from thin air I wouldn’t think.

 

[Varminterror]

It also has a huge following in the bushcraft and prepper communities.

Knowing what I do of “prepper communities,” it seems there is seldom any true logic behind most of the decisions being made there within …

 

[mavracer]

For survival, one can carry a lot of .410's compared to the 20's.

I've hunted quite a bit with both a 410 and 20g and it's no guarantee that I'd get any more game with a pound of 410 shells than I would with a pound of 20s lol.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

I’ve got a line on an original Springfield.

I really don’t dig the different stock design nor the blued finish on the TPS version.

 

[TTv2]

I've hunted quite a bit with both a 410 and 20g and it's no guarantee that I'd get any more game with a pound of 410 shells than I would with a pound of 20s lol.

Potential is higher given you have more shots at hand. With .410 you do have to work within its limitations, know how it patterns with ammo that patterns best with it. All the comments along these lines that I see are likely from people thinking they can use a .410 just like they can a larger gauge and expect the same results. Not the case.