MA: Troopers training to carry submachine guns at Logan airport

[2dogs]

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/121/region/Troopers_training_to_carry_sub:.shtml

Troopers training to carry submachine guns at Logan

By Associated Press, 5/1/2003 10:04
BOSTON (AP) A specially trained state police unit will begin patrolling Logan International Airport with submachine guns next month, making the airport the first in the country to use such heavy weaponry.

The Massachusetts Port Authority, which oversees Logan, has purchased 30 of the guns for $2,500 each. The MP-5's have 30-round clips and a two-round burst capacity, which allows two shots to be fired automatically with one push of the trigger.

Massport Chief Executive Officer Craig Coy said the new weaponry, which will be deployed in June, will act as a deterrent to terrorism.

''It's part of an overall system, an overall approach, to make sure that we have the resources in place, that we have the training in place, that we have the right people in place, and that we have the right equipment in place,'' Coy said.

Since the Sept. 11 attacks, which were carried out with the help of two planes hijacked from Logan, the airport has prided itself on its aggressive pursuit of security improvements. It was the first in the country to have an in-line baggage screen plan approved by the Transportation Security Administration and the first to use several forms of high-tech security technology.

National Guard officers deployed to American airports after the attacks were armed with submachine guns, but this will be the first time they are used as a permanent part of an airport's security force.

Coy predicted that the presence of the guns, which have long been used at European airports, would bring peace of mind to the traveling public.

''I think there's going to be the sense of comfort knowing that we have well-trained people there with the right equipment,'' Coy said.

Members of the special Anti-Terrorism Unit, which is made up of members of the state police troop stationed at Logan, will receive intensive training to become certified on use of the MP-5's. Training includes live-fire drills, night firing and special tactics.

The MP-5's are outfitted with a noise suppressor units so they'll create less alarm among travelers if they're used. The guns are also designed for accuracy in indoor environments.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The MP-5's have 30-round clips and a two-round burst capacity, which allows two shots to be fired automatically with one push of the trigger.

Sounds like a waste of money to me. Must have a lot of shootouts at Logan.

 

[Tamara]

Coy predicted that the presence of the guns, which have long been used at European airports, would bring peace of mind to the traveling public.

Will they get other European features to bring peace of mind to the travelling public? Fedoras? Alsatians? Leather trenchcoats? Searchlights? Snappy, colorful "TSA" armbands?

 

[Augustwest]

MA stripping people of their rights - "It's for the children."

MA militarizing its police force - "It's for the terrorists."


:banghead:

 

[M1911]

Unlike some of you, I support this. The terminals at Logan (like many airport terminals) have pretty large sight lines. There's a chance that they might have to take a pretty long shot. They're much more likely to hit their target if they are using a carbine or rifle than if they're using a pistol. Personally, I'd have chosen an M4 over an MP5, but either will work.

Sounds like a waste of money to me. Must have a lot of shootouts at Logan.

The MA state police don't have many shootouts anywhere. So does that mean that their pistols are a waste of money? Give me a break.

I think there's always a chance of an incident like the one that happened at the El Al counter in LAX. If that sort of thing happens at Logan, I'd much rather the staties were carrying an MP5 than just their pistol.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The MA state police don't have many shootouts anywhere. So does that mean that their pistols are a waste of money? Give me a break.

Not what I said. I think spending 30 x $2,500 on select fire MP5s w/suppressors for airport patrol duty is a waste of money. A semi-automatic shorty AR-15 would be more realistic and a whole lot cheaper.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

...a two-round burst capacity, which allows two shots to be fired automatically with one push of the trigger.

That's why I have trouble shooting. I'm supposed to be pushing the trigger, not pulling it. Apparently written by someone who doesn't have a very good grasp of firearms.

National Guard officers deployed to American airports after the attacks were armed with submachine guns, but this will be the first time they are used as a permanent part of an airport's security force.

Weren't the Guardsmen armed with M-16s? Which, I think it's safe to say, are not submachine guns. I reiterate my earlier comment...

I agree that AR15s probably would be cheaper and more practical for an airport where you might have to take long shots.
<tongue in cheek>
On the other hand, if you were part of this new, super-duper-elite police unit that will get all the funding it wants because it's protecting the airport would you settle for an AR15? If I was in charge I'd tell my boss "There is NO WAY we can adequately defend this airport with AR15s. We absolutely need MP5s. Those are the bare minimum for safely protecting our patrons. In fact, we need suppressed MP5 because those are so much cool...I mean quieter."
</tongue in cheek>

 

[cslinger]

"I agree that AR15s probably would be cheaper and more practical for an airport where you might have to take long shots.
<tongue in cheek>
On the other hand, if you were part of this new, super-duper-elite police unit that will get all the funding it wants because it's protecting the airport would you settle for an AR15? If I was in charge I'd tell my boss "There is NO WAY we can adequately defend this airport with AR15s. We absolutely need MP5s. Those are the bare minimum for safely protecting our patrons. In fact, we need suppressed MP5 because those are so much cool...I mean quieter."
</tongue in cheek>"


AMEN to that. I was recently talking to a member of the Meto PD ballistics team and I was asking why bothing paying all this money for patrol care AR-15 etc. when a nice lever action would both do the job nicely and be very friendly and PC to boot. He agreed and went so far as to say a rifled shotgun would be fine 99% of the time and having somebody trained on a bolt action would probably fill in the other 1%of the time.

Then I got to thinking if I was the local PD armory dude chances are I am a gun nut and if I had the capability of acquiring some uber cool uber tactical toys I probably would too. So that being the case I don't think the MP5s were necessary by any stretch of the imagination but boy I can understand the dude in charge of coming up with this procurement was probably like a kid in a candy store and I can't blame him.

As long as they are proficient and well trained more power to them.

Chris

 

[BerettaNut92]

2 30-round clips in a 2rd-burst MP5? Cool!
BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! **PING!!!***

''I think there's going to be the sense of comfort knowing that we have well-trained people there with the right equipment,'' Coy said.

Yep. That's why my friends all love me.

 

[Intune]

"The MP-5's are outfitted with a noise suppressor units so they'll create less alarm among travelers if they're used. The guns are also designed for accuracy in indoor environments."


I have ALWAYS preferred gunfights that don't alarm people. I hate it when they scurry around seeking cover! Having a family of five wander through crossfire will result in a timeout being called. Rules, don'tyaknow! Don't ever try to fire an MP-5 outdoors. Can't hit anything.

 

[Oleg Volk]

I don't think that MP5s are that bad of a tool for police work (though they don't punch body armor well). What is pathetic is the gap between other civilians in MA, especially at the airport itself, and the police officers. Makes me wonder if I time-warped back to the USSR...

 

[Intune]

"...time warped back to the USSR."

That statement should grab the attention of everyone on these boards. VERY sobering. This is from a man who has lived it.

 

[answerguy]

A two round burst?

That's not really much of a burst, is it?

 

[Boats]

Nope, not the USSR, they have warped into a different reality altogether in that latter day degenerate utopia that used to be the nation's armory:

With apologies to the musical Oklahoma!

[lyric]Fascistchusetts, where the tyranny comes sweepin' down as pain

And the stompin' feet can sure sound sweet
When the jackboots come marchin' to your plane.
Fascistchusetts, Ev'ry night my honey lamb and I
Sit in the dark and watch like hawks
As our freedoms are circlin' down the drain.

We know we belong to the land
And the land we belong to is grand!
We know because the politicians make us say,
"Yes masters, we'd love another tax to pay!"
We're only sayin'
You're doin' fine, Fascistchusetts!
Fascistchusetts, formerly of the USA!
(Maybe we'll escape to New Hampshire someday)[/lyric]

 

[bogie]

Bet #1: The things get dirty, stay dirty, heck, they gather dust and spider webs. Airports are no longer terrorist targets. Loony targets maybe, but not terrorist targets. The terrorists ain't stupid.

Bet #2: They'll be either walking around with no magazines, or with empty magazines.

Anyone wanna put up a Shiner?

 

[444]

As has been mentioned by many posts, they chose the wrong weapon; they should have went with the M16. The MP5 is inferior in every way to the M16. I was on the tarmac of an international airport yesterday. You could easily have someone well out of effective rifle range, let alone submachine gun range. The 5.56 caliber is a more effective stopper. The 5.56 has less risk of overpenetration while at the same time being much more effective against body armor.

I find it interesting that most of us believe that as American citizens, we have the right to be armed, and armed as effectively as possible. We believe that we have the right to own, carry, and use any small arm available. But if the police do the same, they are nazis.

 

[M1911]

Bogie:

I'll take that bet. They'll be carrying them and the magazines will be full.

Hkmp5sd:

Ah, guess I misunderstood what you were saying. The $2500 sounds high. I'm guessing that includes the gun, surpressor, magazines, leather, etc. An M4 would likely still be cheaper though.

 

[Boats]

I find it interesting that most of us believe that as American citizens, we have the right to be armed, and armed as effectively as possible. We believe that we have the right to own, carry, and use any small arm available. But if the police do the same, they are nazis.

If the police would merely submit to placing themselves under the same firearms restrictions as they enforce upon the rest of society, I'd have no problem with whatever the police wished to carry. However, the status quo is that some paramilitarized civilians are somehow "supercitizens" and the rest of us, no matter our backgrounds or training, do not make the cut to carry/own whatever it is the police can carry/own.

"But it is the politicians that pass the laws!" I have yet to ever hear of a law enforcement official arguing that their "supercitizens" should be submitting to the same onerous regulations as those they enforce upon the law-abiding citizens they allegedly protect.

 

[444]

Actually I can own an MP5 or an M16 and it would be easier for me than it would be for those cops. For me, all I need is the money. For them, they have to go through the selection process, graduate from the academy, and I am sure the members of the " specially trained state police unit" were not rookies; they put in their time on the streets.

 

[Soap]

Oleg and Intune,

Have you ever been to Logan? The cops there literally wear jackboots and a baldric. Now they have SMGs.

 

[Tamara]

444,

I find it interesting that most of us believe that as American citizens, we have the right to be armed, and armed as effectively as possible. We believe that we have the right to own, carry, and use any small arm available. But if the police do the same, they are nazis.

No, it is (to paraphrase Orwell) that some citizens are more equal than others.

...and your other post is in error: unless you have an SOT, you can't own one of the guns these guys are toting, as they are surely Post-'86. (Neither can any citizen of MA, even if they were all HK94 sear guns...)

 

[Boats]

Thanks Tam, you saved me the trouble.

 

[org]

I may be wrong, but to me it seems the most repressive states and cities have the most militarized police forces in terms of equipment and attitude, while denying citizens their 2nd amendment rights.

I'd hate to be anywhere in the terminal with those "2 round bursts" ricocheting around. Maybe a semiauto that is accurate would be better than a MP5 that gets shot twice a year.

 

[BerettaNut92]

Flory, what's a baldric? Rufen Sie die Polizei an wenn Sie Skunky sehen!!

 

[JJohnston015]

Well, Boats and Tamara already said it, but that won't stop me.

I find it interesting that most of us believe that as American citizens, we have the right to be armed, and armed as effectively as possible. We believe that we have the right to own, carry, and use any small arm available. But if the police do the same, they are nazis.

The Same would be fine. The Same is all we're asking for. Calling it The Same means I get to walk into the secure area at Logan with my brand-new, unregistered, supressed MP-5. The situation is, in fact, far from The Same.