MA: Troopers training to carry submachine guns at Logan airport

[444]

I think you are missing my point. It sounds to me, and I very well may be wrong, but it sounds like you are using the same arguments to bash the police that the antis use against us. That article doesn't mention any actual deads done by these police officers, it only mentions that they are getting new guns. So right away a number of you pipe up that they are jackbooted thugs etc. based on nothing other than the fact that they are now carrying submachine guns. Just the fact that they have machineguns makes them bad guys. Put another way, the MP5s don't make them bad guys. Of course they may be bad guys, or they may be bad guys because you don't agree with the laws that they are enforcing, whatevever; but it isn't the guns' fault.

Tamara, the argument that I can't buy an identical gun because mine might not be MADE the same date as theirs is pretty weak.

Boats, in your first post you make reference to the police simply enforcing the will of the politicians. This is true but you need to take it a step further. The people ELECTED these people. The people VOTED for these people of their own free will. Then when the will of the people is carried out, the people doing the carrying are of course to blame.

 

[Boats]

Five will get you ten that "the people" never lobbied their "leaders" to exempt the police from almost every firearm law or regulation ever drafted if an exemption for the police had not been drafted in at the start. Time and again it is the leaders of LEO orgs that come to legislators and say, "We'd be happy to support your latest gun control measure, just ensure that we get our customary exemption that you forgot in the initial draft there."

 

[444]

"the leaders of LEO orgs that come to legislators........."

You mean the legislators that were elected by the public in a free election ?

 

[Tamara]

444,

Tamara, the argument that I can't buy an identical gun because mine might not be MADE the same date as theirs is pretty weak.

Tell you what; you find a real, transferrable MP5SD (not a clone sear gun), and tote it into Logan Airport, and we'll talk. Otherwise, some animals are still more equal than others. Period.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Well, actually, they might not find the MP5 you carried in if it was in your carry-on bag. But they will find those nailclippers and G.I. Joe's toy rifle and confiscate those. Lesson: Leave G.I. Joe at home. Use MP5 to clip fingernails.

 

[M1911]

Tamara:

Is it unjust that we can't own the same Class 3 toys that they use? Sure.

But that's not the pressing issue here. Has there been a demonstrable threat to airports? Yes, there has, as shown at LAX. To respond to such a threat, would it be safer for the general public if they carried just pistols? Or pistols and carbines/rifles? I've argued pistols and carbine/rifles, because they'd be more likely to hit the perps and miss the rest of us.

Btw, while suppressors are illegal in MA, full-auto is legal and I know quite a few folks with Class III toys.

The cops there literally wear jackboots and a baldric.

That's the standard MA State Police uniform. They were the same silly breeches throughout MA. It goes back to the days when they road horses. Now it just looks silly and means they can't run as fast.

 

[444]

Tamara, you are a fountain of knowlege, and I have nothing but respect for you. I have enjoyed your posts for several years now. Most of the time I completely agree with you, but in this case, all I can say is

 

[Walk Softly]

I would be happy if I could buy a legal, suppressed MP5 for $2500, even if I couldn't carry it into the airport!

 

[Tamara]

444,

Tamara, you are a fountain of knowlege, and I have nothing but respect for you. I have enjoyed your posts for several years now. Most of the time I completely agree with you, but in this case, all I can say is

I don't get it. Are you saying you can legally buy a post-'86 HK MP5SD in MA without an SOT?

 

[444]

I have no idea what you can buy in MA. But to answer your question, I guess I lied, I know you can't buy a post-'86 HK MP5SD. But, I can buy a pre-86 MP5SD, but that isn't the point of the thread to me. I agree with their need for the weapons. I believe we need police officers as a society and I believe they need to be well armed. The gun law issue is another story and you know how I feel about that.
I did take an Emerson Commander into a plane yesterday (like I do many days). But I am one of those supercitizens mentioned earlier.

 

[CZ-75]

Coy predicted that the presence of the guns, which have long been used at European airports, would bring peace of mind to the traveling public.

And this has worked so well.

Frankfurt and Rome come to mind.



And to add to org's thoughts, I've wondered why regimes (like the Eurosocialists and the People's Commune of Massachusetts) that restrict the freedoms of their "citizens," particularly in regard to what, if any, weapons they may own, feel the need to arm their enforcers with automatic weapons.

How much firepower to you need to keep an unarmed populace in line? Or is it that the draconian penalties for owning weapons mean that if criminals are going to violate them, they may as well go all the way?

 

[Sir Galahad]

Ho, there, hoss. Calling a police officer an "enforcer"? I've been quiet about the jackboot talk, but really, guys. Who gets called to look for peoples' missing kids? Think it's Gun Owners of America or the NRA? Who is usually first uniform on scene to give aid in car accidents? Uh, the Libertarian Party? Have some forgotten that a pretty tall number of cops died in the WTC on 9/11 trying to SAVE LIVES? Don't blame the cops. Blame the politicians that make the laws. The police officers I know are honorable, giving people. There was one cop shot to death here a couple years ago just doing his job. He asked some punk high on meth to turn down his radio. For that, he was killed. Just trying to give a citizen who called in with a noise complaint some service. Let's talk about the laws, not the men who are only doing their jobs for what is sometimes an ungrateful community.

 

[Tamara]

Don't blame the cops. Blame the politicians that make the laws.

Why, that's just what I'm doing. (...at least, if you insert "good" between "the" and "cops", and most of them are.)

 

[CZ-75]

Calling a police officer an "enforcer"?

When you consider the political make-up of some of these places, what else would you call them?

I suppose the NKVD and the Gestapo were just "police officers"?

 

[Mizzoutiger]

Let's quit beating around the bush and talk about what REALLY bothers us. We cannot protect our constitutional rights from tyranny if the "employees" of tyranny outgun us. Your average citizen should be able to procure the very same weapons government agents can in the same ease that they do. Otherwise, when it comes down to acting on our 2nd amendment rights to do what I believe, as many others do, the framers of the constitution intended, it would be an exercise in futility.

"What country can perserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." Thomas Jefferson

Our rulers are not in the least nervous at the citizenry's arms. They are issued full auto "assault" rifles with magazines that dwarf civilian capacity. I won't even get into more lethal military equipment. I'll just say that should ever the time come in our nation's future that we will have to take back our country by force, we would have an american massacre on our hands.

 

[444]

I got news for you. Clothes don't make the man. Handing someone an MP5 doesn't make him or her a bad***. Having firearms that can switch to full auto doesn't make someone a bad***. Firepower isn't the issue. When people are too lazy to vote for their freedom, the idea of fighting for it seems pretty silly.

 

[M1911]

And this has worked so well. And this has worked so well.

So, would the Frankfurt and Rome incidents have been better (i.e., there been less loss of innocent lives) if the police there had been more poorly armed?

Folks, I just don't understand your objections to this. I don't get it.

Having firearms that can switch to full auto doesn't make someone a bad***

It is always difficult to get accurate details from an article in the popular press, but it sounds to me that these guns aren't full-auto, but are instead semi and burst (2-round).

 

[Soap]

Skunk- It is a belt with a strap that goes over one shoulder.

 

[Sir Galahad]

CZ-75, I'm referring to AMERICAN police officers. Hel-lo!

Those who think they cannot defend themselves without automatic weapons sure don't have much confidence in their marksmanship skills. Got news for ya, full auto doesn't make up for poor shots, it increases them. In basic, we had M-16A1s. These were the full-auto selectives, not the 3 round burst A2s.If a guy was a poor shot with semi, you should have seen all the misses with full auto! And even the good shots saw their misses increase with full auto. Maybe the first two or three rounds hit the target and the rest flew off. This is why the military went to burst fire instead of full auto. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. That's not YOU, right?

A crack shot with a single shot rifle will be more effective than some nabob with a full auto. Even police departments forget that.

 

[Tamara]

Sir Galahad,

Those who think they cannot defend themselves without automatic weapons sure don't have much confidence in their marksmanship skills.

So this violation of the Second Amendment isn't such a bad one then, right?

Out of curiousity, where do you think the government, as an entity, derives the right to buy an MP5 or a SAW?

 

[M1911]

COME ON PEOPLE!

Yes, the NFA laws are wrong. Yes, we should be able to buy full-auto and surpressors.

But that has NOTHING to do with how the MA State Police guarding Logan airport should be armed.

ENOUGH of this! Start another thread if you wish to debate that.

 

[CZ-75]

CZ-75, I'm referring to AMERICAN police officers. Hel-lo!

I don't see much distance between California, PRNJ, and MA police (particularly state police) and those from those other regimes and I wasn't making a distinction. Give'em time over here.

Arming them with automatic weapons on a daily basis at the airport is the first step on the slippery slope to para-military enforcers. The next will be when they need them on routine patrol.

So, would the Frankfurt and Rome incidents have been better (i.e., there been less loss of innocent lives) if the police there had been more poorly armed?

I think the idea was that the police were heavily armed, yet the bad guys did it anyway.

 

[Blain]

"MA: Troopers training to carry submachine guns at Logan airport"

They've already had troops patrolling Logan since 9/11 with M16s. What would be the point of replacing them with MP5s? If anything that's a step down!

 

[Thumper]

When people are too lazy to vote for their freedom, the idea of fighting for it seems pretty silly.

Wow...well put.

 

[Yohan]

2 30-round clips in a 2rd-burst MP5? Cool!
BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! BA-BAP! **PING!!!***

Ooh- is that a MP5/Garand hybrid?