Magazine disconnect vs grip safety, which is dumber?.

[stchman]

I read a thread over at XD Talk about magazine disconnects.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-gunsmithing-maintenance/29506-magazine-disconnect.html

They all bashed on them and one said they would go throw their XD into a lake if it had one.

Now, don't XDs have grip safeties? Grip safeties are FAR DUMBER than magazine disconnects. Somewhat hypocritical if you ask me.

Mag disconnects are also fairly easily removable on firearms that have one. Grip safeties are not.

 

[45Fan]

Mag disconects are not exactly a great idea, in the off chance that the mag were to be released in the holster, or malfunction or whatever might go wrong. At least without one, worst case you end up with a single shot, while not good, is still better than nothing at all.
Grip safties on the other hand really dont effect the funtionality of the gun, unless you dont have a propper grip, or drop the gun, or any other action that could cause the gun to go off when not intended. neither are esential, and both could possible be an issue, but people still buy guns with these features, so the companies still make them.

 

[PabloJ]

I would pay them no mind. When HS 2000 was first imported from that developing European country they could not give them away. Now folks on that forum think it's best thing since sliced bread.......loco if you ask me.

 

[stchman]

I personally think both a dumb, but grip safeties are the dumber of the two.

Grip safeties are what makes a 1911 more difficult to de-cock that need be.

My SR9 HAD a mag disconnect (easily removed in about 5 minutes).

 

[Greg528iT]

I've read plenty of cases why the mag safety will get in the way of letting off a round. I am unsure of a valid case where you would want to fire a round without having some semblance of a grip and thus working the grip safety. How often would you ever fire a pistol without having your hand on the grip?

 

[bigfatdave]

You don't need to de-cock a 1911, and I don't see how the grip interlock would make it harder, anyway.
And what could possibly be wrong with a grip disconnect? If you don't like it, it can be pinned in, actually easier than removing a magazine interlock. It is a DROP SAFE device, it has a function in the gun all the time, not just when officer friendly decides that a rasslin match is the right way to do his jerb for the day.

 

[easyg]

While grip-safeties are not really necessary IMO, I wouldn't go so far as to call them dumb.
Properly designed and executed, a grip safety should be something that the shooter doesn't really even notice.

As for the magazine disconnect....

Again, while I don't think they are necessary, I wouldn't call them dumb.
They have probably saved more lives than both the grip-safety and the manual safety.


Having said all of that...


I'm not a fan of either the grip-safety or the magazine disconnect.

I think that they both are just needless complications.

 

[Nushif]

I kinda like the grip safety on the XDs. Don't mind those at all.
But I do have to admit that magazine safeties throw me for a loop Every. Last. Time.

 

[rcmodel]

Grip safeties are FAR DUMBER than magazine disconnects.

Says you!

The one on the XD serves several functions besides keeping you from shooting yourself Paxico's Glock style.
It also locks the slide so it can't be pushed out of battery by a tight holster.
And it prevents even loading it unless you have a proper grip on the gun.
What's wrong with that?

As for the grip safety on a 1911?
Never had a problem with them either.
But I've only been shooting them since 1962.

Mag disconnects?
They also have their place.
Kids in the house, cops in a gun-grab, or you have to leave your gun in the car at work.
Take the mag with you and some crack-head won't be armed with your gun when you come back to the car.

The Illinois State police documented several officer "saves" during a gun struggle when they first started using S&W Model 39 auto's many years ago.

rc

 

[stchman]

To bigfatdave:

So a 1911 never needs to be de-cocked?

Let's say you are carrying your 1911 in condition 1 (loaded, chambered, and safety engaged). You now want to unload the pistol (no round in the chamber), what is the 1911 approved method for doing this?

From what I have seen from other 1911 owners they need to do that two handed de-cock that looks pretty dangerous IMO. Then they drop the mag and rack the slide to eject the chambered round.

On my DA/SA pistols I always de-cock the pistol (pointed in safe direction), drop mag, then cycle slide to eject the chambered round.

 

[45Fan]

De-cocking a 1911? I guess the OP should just fess up that he is one of the kool-aid drinkers that think glocks are the only pistol anyone should ever need.
Honestly, if you are dropping the hammer on a 1911, it better be unloaded, or pointed at your intended target. Nasty things like busted fingers and friends with missing toes comes from silliness such as that. If you dont like the grip saftey, dont buy a 1911 or an XD. Me, I dont mind them, acutally am quite fond of them, so I shoot them. I dont much care for Glocks, so I dont own any, but I dont complain about them either, alot of people like them just fine, and thats fine by me.

 

[stchman]

I actually dislike both of them.

A mag safety does have its pluses when some idiot at the range (thinks they have an unloaded pistol just because the mag is out) sweeps his barrel around and accidentally shoots someone else. This is a stretch, but just maybe.

I like the anti mag disconnect folks that say "it adds un-needed complexity". Doesn't a grip safety do the same thing?

All in all they are both dumb.

 

[AirForceShooter]

I like the grip safety on my 1911.
Reason: I carry at condition ZERO.
Just like a glock. Grab it and pull the trigger. If trigger snags, the grip safety stops it from going boom.
Mag safety's? an invention of Satan.

AFS

 

[stchman]

To 45fan:

You are carrying your 1911 CCW style in condition 1. You get some new ammo for your 1911.

What is the safe method to change out to a different brand of ammo in a loaded and chambered 1911? This assumes that you have a full mag with one chambered and safety engaged.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Magazine safeties are dumb. Grip safeties are stupid. My glock doesn't have either because it is the bestest thing ever made ever.

Sorry, I had kool aid for lunch.

I don't care for magazine safeties. Anything that has a grip safety has never once given me an issue (and I shoot high thumbs) so I've never understood what all the fuss is about regarding the grip safety.

You don't need to de-cock a 1911

I agree. Either shoot it, eject the round in the chamber or leave it the heck alone. I've shot 1911's for years and I've never needed to de-cock one. When you have a round in the chamber, cocked and locked is much safer than safety off and hammer down.

So a 1911 never needs to be de-cocked?

Let's say you are carrying your 1911 in condition 1 (loaded, chambered, and safety engaged). You now want to unload the pistol (no round in the chamber), what is the 1911 approved method for doing this?

Again, why monkey with the hammer?

1. Finger off the trigger
2. Drop magazine
3. Disengage safety
4. Rack slide

Voila, mission accomplished. Just because you see that hammer doesn't mean you need to mess with it. I don't understand why anyone would want to thumb the hammer down to unload it. You're actually risking setting off the firing pin.

 

[easyg]

So a 1911 never needs to be de-cocked?

Let's say you are carrying your 1911 in condition 1 (loaded, chambered, and safety engaged). You now want to unload the pistol (no round in the chamber), what is the 1911 approved method for doing this?

Again, why monkey with the hammer?

Finger off the trigger
Drop magazine
Disengage safety
Rack slide
Voila, mission accomplished. Just because you see that hammer doesn't mean you need to mess with it. I don't understand why anyone would want to thumb the hammer down to unload it. You're actually risking setting off the firing pin.

Exactly.

I have never seen anyone manually decock a 1911 just to rack the slide, recocking the hammer, in order to eject a round.

So the answer is: No, a 1911 never needs to be decocked. Ever.

 

[45Fan]

Drop the mag, thumb saftey off, rack the side, Gun is empty, no need to drop the hammer until then. 1911s can be dry fired, so where is the need to decock?
If you just want to change ammo, drop the mag, load new ammo, reinsert mag, thumb saftey off, rack slide, thumb saftey back on. still no reason to decock the weapon.
If you just dont want to dry fire, still no big deal, clear the weapon, and instead of dry fire, put your thumb on the hammer, pull the trigger, and let the hammer down. Maybe you could benifit from a little range time with an old fashioned 1911, might change your mind about grip safeties. If not, its a good excuse to put some holes in paper.
There are alot of things I have tried that I didnt think I would like, and every once in a while my opinion gets changed.

 

[rscalzo]

From 83 up to today we have people carrying 2nd. and 3rd. Gen S&W semi-auto. Out of the well over one hundred carrying the handgun, we did not have one instance of a failure of the mechanism.

One downside was for left handed officers. Using the approved Safariland holster, the lap/shoulder harness could depress the magazine release just enough to dislodge the magazine. Even without the disconnect, the handgun would be reduced to a one shot firearm. The few left handed officers got into the habit of checking the magazine seating every time they left the vehicle.

Quite frankly, cracked frames were a bigger problem than the disconnect. The disconnect became handy when handling prisoners at times although that too had its issues.

 

[bigfatdave]

To bigfatdave:
So a 1911 never needs to be de-cocked?
Let's say you are carrying your 1911 in condition 1 (loaded, chambered, and safety engaged). You now want to unload the pistol (no round in the chamber), what is the 1911 approved method for doing this?
From what I have seen from other 1911 owners they need to do that two handed de-cock that looks pretty dangerous IMO. Then they drop the mag and rack the slide to eject the chambered round.

I don't know what kind of people you watched do that silly dance, the way to unload is to:

1. unholster, keeping finger off trigger and not depressing grip safety
2. drop mag, set aside
3. push manual safety lever down
4. rack slide to eject loaded round
5. check chamber clear
6. allow slide to go forward
7. push manual safety lever up
8. retrieve ejected round

The hammer never even moves, and if you prefer you can rack with the grip safety lever not engaged, the same way the gun should be inserted into the holster.

To 45fan:
You are carrying your 1911 CCW style in condition 1. You get some new ammo for your 1911.
What is the safe method to change out to a different brand of ammo in a loaded and chambered 1911? This assumes that you have a full mag with one chambered and safety engaged.

I still don't see the complication here, maybe you've never actually operated a 1911 type pistol?

I'll go ahead and give instructions, even though this would be obvious to anyone who has spent a few minutes handling a 1911 or other SAO autoloader:

1. Follow unload procedure above
2. Insert magazine full of new ammo
3. safety lever down
4. rack slide to chamber a new round
5. safety lever up
6. eject mag
7. re-fill mag
8. insert mag
9. re-holster weapon, keeping finger off trigger and with grip safety not depressed (I put my thumb behind the hammer to prevent loose-grip fumbles)

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

People have been using grip safeties for over a hundred years without a problem. Seems like alot of people suddenly believe that these features are suddenly a bad thing.

The mag disconnect in the civilian world, at least for me, is pointless and I do not like them. Makes the trigger on my Hi Power horrid.

 

[Viper]

Personally, I don't think either is dumb. A mag disconnect would have prevented my son from blowing a hold in my wall with my PM45 - and he's a cop. I've never noticed them effecting the function much, except maybe in a HP or a P345.

I also appreciate the grip safeties on my XD 45 and my 1911's. It's passive, it doesn't get in the way, and it works. In fact I hardly notice it. I think both classes of pistol benefit from it because of the light triggers, and my XD doesn't have a manual safety.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

My Dad's friend's son would've been saved by a disconnect, although proper gun handling still negates most of why a mag disconnect is justified.

 

[Hanzo581]

I can understand the hate on mag disconnects, but grip safeties? I'd like my gun to only go off when I am holding it, thanks...

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Probably gets in the way of his pinky draws.

 

[Czar]

Grip safeties are what makes a 1911 more difficult to de-cock that need be.

I'll be the first to admit, I'm not a 1911 owner, only an occasional shooter of others while at the range and they're shooting my CZ, but... Isn't decocing part of the point of the beaver tail? Bring the hammer further back into the beavertail activating the grip safety, then pull trigger and control hammer forward?

Or have I been doing this wrong?