Magazine disconnect vs grip safety, which is dumber?.

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This has never made sense to me, you NEED a holster in order for a Glock to be considered safe
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I think he was just recommending carrying a glock in a holster that covers the trigger guard for day to day carry. I feel the same about my revolvers, glocks or 1911's in that respect. My 1911 has safety that could be inadvertently swiped off and a light trigger...so I don't feel it's safe for carry unless the holster covers the trigger guard, same as my glock.
 
I hate them both equally
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I love them both equally. Either one doesn't bother me in the slightest...
I actually find the mag disconnect to have more positive attributes than the grip safety...
 
I don't really think either one is "dumb". They both have their purposes. I have a XD with a grip safety & it has never bothered me a bit. I am interested in one of the Ruger SR series guns but the magazine disconnect idea bothers me a bit. The reason isn't because it's a mag disconnect but because I don't like Rugers magazine disconnect design. I may end up buying one but if I do it will be in spite of not because of.
It will just be something else to be aware of & make allowances for.
Both mag disconnects & grip safeties accomplish exactly what their designers put them in for. They allow the guns to be sold places they couldn't without them & protect the firearms makers from lawsuits.
 
The only problem I have with either is when they are poorly executed. The Ruger MkIII .22 pistols have a magazine disconnect tacked on to make them eligible for Kali sales. Unfortunately, is adds about 5 steps to the field strip procedure. After trying it once, I went to the Ruger forum & read about how to disable it.

Had it not been such a PITA, I would have been more than happy to leave it alone. I would say the chances of me doing something stupid are at least as good as me getting into a situation where I desperately need to fire a gun without a magazine.

A grip safety on the other hand, is potentially helpful in the event of a drop (which I've had happen), or a struggle over the weapon (which could be a reality). A member here posted not too long ago about his uncle, who was carrying a pistol from a bedroom to the safe, tripped, fell, and accidentally shot & killed himself. Could a grip safety have prevented that tragedy?...maybe.
 
The designers of the original HS-2000 sought to alleviate two problems experienced with Glock pistols. 1. The pistol firing upon holstering and 2. the pistol not firing because it went out of battery when it was holstered. The grip safety prevents both problems.

To the OP: If you don't like what is being said at XDTalk, why not stick to drinking the kool-aid at GlockTalk?;)
 
i like the concept of a grip safety on my 1911's. even though they have the regular safety i like the idea of added safety while i'm cocked and locked.
 
No problem with a grip safety. If I'm shooting it, I will be holding it.

Mag disconnect? I guess maybe on a plinking gun. On a carry gun though? The mag disconnect from my SR9c now resides inside a plastic bag.
 
BullfrogKen:
That attitude suggests people cannot be trusted.
I assert a completely different attitude - If someone needs a safety device to compensate for poor gun handling, he has two choices:
Either learn good gun handling skills, and practice them until they become habit;
Or don’t own a gun.
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First of all, people cannot be trusted to be perfect and never make mistakes.
Second, by your logic then firearms don't need any safeties whatsoever.
No grip-safety, no manual safety, no drop safety....none!
After all, if everyone had perfect gun handling skills they would never have it pointed in a direction that could harm someone, and they would never accidentally drop their gun....there would never be any negligent discharges.

But again, people aint perfect.



FIVETWOSEVEN:
This has never made sense to me, you NEED a holster in order for a Glock to be considered safe,
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Yes, in order for a Glock to totally safe, with a round chambered, one needs a holster.
That's my opinion.

what if you don't have one? Don't tell me you always have one because thats impossible.
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Actually, it's not impossible to always have a holster.

It's no different than having a magazine for your pistol....
You wouldn't take your autoloader with you without a magazine would you?

Of course not!

Well then, why would you take your autoloader with you without its holster???

I have various holsters for my G27...several for my belt outside-waistband, several for my belt inside-waistband, a few that clip-on without the need for a belt, and one that is for for pocket-carry.
 
i absolutely HATE magazine disconnects. Grip safeties aren't necessary in my opinion but don't bother me on my XD or 1911. And i'm sure it's a security blanket to some people who are paranoid of accidental discharges. but i'm indifferent. they don't get in my way.
 
I've always wondered why 1911,s came with a safety switch and the grip safety. The grip safety I hate very much. But as. Someone mentioned here the grip safety can be pinned in. I really don't seem to hear to much complaining about the grip safety on 1911,s maybe because people just seem to put a blind eye to it. In my opinion the grip safety and a safety is just more garbage you have to deal with. A safety switch is sufficient.
 
I've always wondered why 1911,s came with a safety switch and the grip safety. The grip safety I hate very much. But as. Someone mentioned here the grip safety can be pinned in. I really don't seem to hear to much complaining about the grip safety on 1911,s maybe because people just seem to put a blind eye to it. In my opinion the grip safety and a safety is just more garbage you have to deal with. A safety switch is sufficient.
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The M1911 was designed for horse cavalry. While Browning thought just de-cocking the gun (as was the case with the old Colt SAA) would be adequate, the Army wanted more safety for a man in action on a frantic, bucking horse.

Browning responded with the grip safety, which the Army liked but didn't consider adequate. So in 1910, Browning added the safety lock, and the gun was accepted after competitive trials the next year.

The disadvantage of the grip safety is that it can fail to disengage in some circumstances -- notably when using a two-handed grip. That problem is neatly solved by adding a bump at the base of the safety lever.
 
I hate to even bring this up.. but I'm going to.. people who say "pin the grip safety" about a 1911, really don't know how it works. a couple seconds on a grinder will eliminate the grip safety tab.
 
Magazine safeties are a FAR dumber idea.

A grip safety prevents the firearm from being fired in an unsafe condition, like when you're not actually holding it in your hand.

A magazine safety prevents the firearm from being fired during a magazine chance, or if the magazine is lost or defective. None of those things benefits me in any way.

The only firearms I have that have grip safeties are my four M1911s. They're not a problem.

The only firearm I have that HAD a magazine safety is my Browning Hi Power. The first thing I did was have the magazine safety removed.
 
I don't have anything with a grip safety, so I'll reserve comment until I have had experience with them. But for magazine disconnects, I don't want or need them on my range guns , but definitely prefer them on a carry gun.

IMO, there are two main scenarios with a magazine disconnect that are important, and need to be factored into the decision of accepting a disconnect or not. I don't see it as a safety device to prevent an accidental discharge, as proper handling and training will take care of that.

One scenario is the accidental full or partial ejecting of the magazine thus rendering the firearm incapable of being fired. This is actually addressed in the normal course of training with malfunction (TRR) drills.

I also test my carry setup to be sure it's not prone to accidentally ejecting while carrying, holstering/re-holstering, or handling. Just as I do with putting lead downrange to ensure there are no jams, FTF, FTE, or other malfunctions. Once I know its not prone to accidental ejections, I don't worry abbot it. If it happens the training kicks in and resolves it in the normal course of malfunction clearing.

The other scenario is more troubling to me, that being wrestling with an attacker(s) over control of my own firearm. If they succeed, that leaves me unarmed and at a severe disadvantage. The magazine disconnect now has the option of becoming a tactical advantage . If all other possibilities fail and I can't gain the upper hand, I do know I can press the magazine eject button (if it hasn't happened already in the struggle) to make the firearm inoperable.

There are far more options now with him holding an inoperable firearm, especially if he doesn't know it's incapable of being fired. If I regain control of it, I also have the option of making it operable again with my spare magazine (or the original if I still have it).

I find it far more useful as a tactical 'feature', and less desirable as a safety device. Safety is best done with training and common sense, and not mechanical features designed to protect those that do neither of the former.

This has never made sense to me, you NEED a holster in order for a Glock to be considered safe
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Its no different with a Glock than any other pistol in my opinion. Any firearm is safer in a properly designed holster to prevent anything from contacting the trigger inadvertently while carrying. I won't carry any handgun if it's not in a holster that covers the trigger guard.
 
I've always wondered why 1911,s came with a safety switch and the grip safety.
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Because the paying customer asked for them. First came the grip safety. It was a tacked-on feature on some of the 1905s, and were incorporated into the design for 1907-1909. The Army Ordnance officers liked the one on Georg Luger's sexy little masterpiece, and requested it for theirs.

The thumb safety...aka slide locking manual safety...was added on at the behest of the US Cavalry after the 1910s were sent for evaluation, and the reason was so that a mounted trooper could place the gun on-safe and reholster to free up both hands while trying to regain control of a frightened horse...without shooting the horse or himself. Even in those unenlightened days, they realized that a man might neglect to get his finger clear of the trigger before jamming the piece back into a holster. The thumb safety took care of that, assuming that the trooper remembered to engage it.

The reason that the High Power doesn't have a grip safety is because the military entity that contracted for it didn't specify one. If it had, be assured that the High Power would have one today.

As far as decocking a SA auto without a device to do it for me being so fraught with peril...

Please. :rolleyes:

If I find that I no longer have the manual dexterity and/or presence of mind to do it without shooting myself or the neighbor's kitten...I'll lock up the guns and take up needlepoint.
 
What you are reading on the XD forum is a bunch of inexperienced little boys who think their pistol is the S%$^& and anything not exactly like the one they have is stupid. If their XD's had magazine disconnects you'd read all kinds of posts defending them. What do you expect on an XD forum?

I have pistols with one or both of these features and pistols without either of these features. Both varieties manage to function just fine with or without these features.

I'd be willing to bet most everyone responding to this thread owns one with one or both of these features. Neither feature is a substitute for proper safe gun handling.
 
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Not to mention the patent for the 1911 included a tab behind the trigger that prevented it from being pulled if a magazine was not in the gun. There was a slot in the mag catch for the tab that would line up when there was a mag inserted........i.e. a mag disconnect. Never went into production that way but JMB seemed to like them.

If I find that I no longer have the manual dexterity and/or presence of mind to do it without shooting myself or the neighbor's kitten...I'll lock up the guns and take up needlepoint.
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Be careful! Those needles are sharp and can go right through your thumb. ;)
 
I like the grip safety on a 1911. It is relatively innocuous, and should I ever futz and drop my pistol while in the process of shooting, it is nice knowing it is there. It also encourages new shooters of 1911s to get a good stable grip on the pistol for it to actually operate.

I also do not mind a mag safety, though I have never sought them out, three pistols that have them, and they have caused no problems. Seems like a non issue for my purposes.

That said I also have pistols with neither feature, and I am comfortable with them, and they also work just fine.
 
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