Magazines and clips...

[Sam1911]

Using correct terminology is not only for experts in their fields, it is part of the English language. Its a matter of education. We should ALL aspire to speak as intelligently as we can. And, you should always try to help others, in a polite, non-offending way.

Beautifully put. Words mean things. The more specific and accurate we can be, the more smoothly our ideas can be exchanged and the more easily we will understand one another.

From a conversation regarding "Assault Rifles" and "Battle Rifles:"

But to explain further, the reason that people are so precise and fervent in their definitions has nothing to do with military nomenclature, and everything to do with gun control politics.

That's true of some folks in some situations. But it also is a pet peeve of a lot of THR members that people who should know better use very specific terms in sloppy and confusing ways. Just like when folks ask me what size their "rafters" should be when they mean the beams which support their floors, or if someone goes on and on about what a great car their F-150 is. Its jarring and can lead to confusion, when used among folks who understand the differences, and makes the speaker look distressingly uninformed.

-Sam

 

[highorder]

Why take my word for it? Here is why I believe such and such, and you can verify it for yourselves. But they often don't want to, sometimes poking fun at their own lack of knowledge as a roundabout way of making fun of me as being some kind of freak

Yeah buddy!

I'm not a genius, just an effective researcher.

When people ask me a question and I provide them the correct answer I often hear, "why do you know that?" They should be asking themselves why they don't and use that as motivation.

 

[Ronsch]

I have got it!!!!!!!

After actively shooting for 35+ years, I have it.

You "clip" the "magazine" into place and proceed to fire the weapon...:banghead:

 

[buck460XVR]

I never thought it a bit deal. Some one calls a magazine a clip.....I know what they mean.

Just like when some one says thay had their female dog Spade-ed. I know they didn't hit her with a shovel.

When folks say "look out for the poison Shoe-mac", I don't look at their feet.

Just like when folk tell me about the spindles under their handrail, I know they really mean balusters.


I generally have bigger things to worry about.

 

[garymc]

I understand the distinctions used by people expert in the field. But I sometimes call the tube magazine on my .22 the "tube." However, I'm not allowed to call the box magazine that clips onto the bottom of my deer rifle a clip magazine or a clip because some people will have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[Sam1911]

But I sometimes call the tube magazine on my .22 the "tube."

Well that's a great example of how it can be a problem.

Many folks will say "My xDM 9mm holds 19 in the mag and one in the tube." They mean barrel.

If you say, "I had a round in the tube of my .22," what did you mean? The difference can be quite critical.

Again, it isn't about being hyper critical of other folks or talking down to them. Words mean things. The more specific we are, the more effectively we communicate.

-Sam

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I find the interjections of "It's a MAGAZINE, not a clip!!!!111one" to be annoying. It contributes nothing to the conversation. Everybody knows what is being discussed. At least one manufacturer has referred to their detachable-box-magazine rimfire rifles as being "clip fed."

 

[dondavis3]

It doesn't make any difference to me what people call them.

I usually know exactly what they mean and I don't feel the need to correct them.

Just my .02

 

[Dokkalfar]

The problem is not that you know what they mean, Its that they don't know what they're talking about. I think benEzra put it very well:

If someone calls a magazine a "clip" in my presence, I won't correct them, but I will assume that they got their gun knowledge from Hollywood and don't know much about firearms, the same as if they called a handgun a "gat".

 

[Isher]

"Aye, there's the rub."

Right.

The subject of this post is the difference between idiomatic (slang)

Usage and "The King's English."

BOTH are equally effective in communicating message and intent.

I say Gat, you say Brown Bess, another says My Daily Carry,

Another says my EBR, another says My Piece, another says

Saturday Night Special, another says Pepperbox, another says Ma Deuce.

From outside of it, you could not tell if any of these were a firearm.

Yet if you have made any kind of study of firearms, those terms

Are as instantly recognizable as Valley Girl, Hippie, Greaser, Surfer,

Beatnik, Straight, Nerd, or Geek, to jump over to the sociological side.

How 'bout Gen X, Gen Y, Gen Z?

Not to speak of ongoing definitions of race and/or religion, usually pejorative.

Anyone ever hear the term "Back Bay Irish" vs. NINA ("No Irish Need Apply)?

All those terms were just picked out randomly on the spur of the moment,

Off the top of my head, by the way.

And I could go on ad nauseam in this vein.

My point is that any point of interest develops its own slang, its own idiom.

Furthermore, that any language is a collection of hundreds if not thousands

Of years of just such. Some words are adsorbed, and become effectively

Permanent. Others only last a few years.

In either and or any case, I will state that there is no correct or fixed

Use or formulation for any language, including both written (grammatical) and verbal sides.

Historical note: one of the most effective methods used by aggressive

Cultures bent on conquering other cultures has been to first deny them their

Native and colloquial language, and impose whatever their version

Of their "King's English" upon said people.

So, all said and done, there are two very distinct sides to this perception

Of what language is, and how it is used.

To round the curve back to firearms, I'm easy with either the idiomatic

Or the precisely technical, or somewhere in between, and enjoy all.

In terms of mutual respect for others, I do my best not to lay my trip on others,

But to discuss, question, and opinionate

Without feeling the need to lay down inflexible linguistic ground rules "by me"

For everyone else.


isher

 

[sprice]

I like isher- he speaketh the truth.

 

[Oyeboten]

A question for those people who call a 'Magazine' a 'Clip' -

What do you call a 'Clip'?

 

[garymc]

Are you talking about a stripper clip, an en bloc clip, a paper clip or a hair clip?

 

[Oyeboten]

Ask them...

( Lol...)

 

[kanook]

customer comes in the shop. Says he got an SKS and is looking for a clip. What do you get him?

1) 10 round stipper clip

2) 10 round or more fixed clip

3) A detachable 30 round mag designed for the SKS

4) Figure that he has a converted SKS that takes AK mags

 

[Fremmer]

we know what people mean when they use the term clip. the endless correction by the uber-smart people really does demonstrate how smart they are, though. even though it does nothing to truly help with the question at hand.

 

[Jim Watson]

customer comes in the shop. Says he got an SKS and is looking for a clip. What do you get him?

Works the other way, too. I once asked at the gun counter for a Rifle magazine. The clerk asked me "What make and caliber?" No, no, I wanted the PERIODICAL PUBLICATION of that title.

 

[shootr]

Been shooting a long time and "clip" always meant whatever held the rounds, unless it was a tube feed. Then, it was a "tube." Things were a lot simpler then, everyone knew what was meant and people didn't see the need to "correct" others on such trivialities. Things change.

IME, it's been only the last decade or so that people have had issue with the use of "clip" for "magazine" and I've been tickled when relatively newb shooters correct others. I try to be as polite as some are obnoxious, but sometimes I've been less than gracious.

Watched one fella go from never having held a gun of any kind, to an expert in his own mind over the course of roughly 9 months. He never fails to "correct" others or offer his internet-learned insights. Seems to be a maturity / courtesy thing and seems many are lacking in those areas these days.

Around him, I just make sure to use "clip" instead of magazine. Around others rude enough to "correct" someone they don't know, I politely explain that I've been shooting for perhaps as long as they've been around, am aware of the difference and will continue to call it whatever I wish.

 

[DC300a]

Personally, I don't give a crap. In fact, if I know someone is going to get annoyed if I were to say clip instead of magazine, I will never ever utter the word magazine in his presence. There are much more important things in life to worry about than one of the stupidest of arguments, clip/magazine. No one is hurt, no one is going to get hurt, there will be no villages plundered with the women and children being taken as slaves. The sun will still sun, the birds still chirp, there are guns to be loaded and games to be watched. If you get annoyed or angry about the terminology, take a blood pressure pill because I know you are on one, and sit in your lazy boy and watch the Andy Griffith show.

+1 In the grand scheme of things it doesnt matter. I call magazines by the correct name and clips the correct name. But if you and I, God forbid where stuck in a firefight in the heat of the moment I yelled I need one more clip for my AR.... are you gonna honestly stare at me like a cow looking at a new gate or try to correct me... Nope.

Get over yourselves people.

 

[DC300a]

Oh and....

CLIP

 

[DC300a]

Sorry.... rant over.

 

[MinnMooney]

This comes up quite regularly on this forum and rightly so.

Every endevor has it's correct nomenclature and weaponry is no different. A "clip" is NOT a "magazine". A "bullet" is NOT a "cartridge". A "pistol" is (in most knowledgeable circles) not a "revolver".

I worked with concrete and teach classes in same. Many people refer to the concrete by calling it "cement" . That's like calling a birthday cake a birthday flour. Flour is one of the ingredients in a cake just as cement is but one of the ingredients in concrete (other ingredients include sand, gravel and water).

If someone said, "I just poured a cement sidewalk!" would I know what he meant? Of course, but I'd be thinking, "You're an idiot."

 

[MinnMooney]

from Jim Watson - post 67 :

Works the other way, too. I once asked at the gun counter for a Rifle magazine. The clerk asked me "What make and caliber?" No, no, I wanted the PERIODICAL PUBLICATION of that title.

Cute quip.

It shows how our language has so many meanings for the same word. Think ream (500ct OR bore out);
field (occupation OR meadow OR to answer questions);
yard (3 feet distance OR an area near your house);
yarn (thich, twisted thread OR a story);
etc., etc., etc.

No wonder our language is so difficult to learn.

 

[Vonderek]

A "pistol" is (in most knowledgeable circles) not a "revolver"

Actually "pistol" was the common term for any handheld gun (or "gonne") for centuries before the invention of the semiautomatic handgun...and before the invention of the revolver for that matter. Whether it were horse pistols, dueling pistols, whether wheelock or flintlock...none were semiautos and all were called "pistols". Later, Sam Colt himself called his revolvers "pistols" or "revolving pistols". Gunfighters of the 19th Century were called "pistol fighters". It's only in the last 100 years that "pistols" came to mean semiautos and not revolvers. Historically it's inaccurate.

 

[Manco]

Works the other way, too. I once asked at the gun counter for a Rifle magazine. The clerk asked me "What make and caliber?" No, no, I wanted the PERIODICAL PUBLICATION of that title.

That's a good example of when there are coincidental conflicts between common language and jargon, but it still has no bearing on what is correct for the jargon. Additionally, in this case the jargon is more historically accurate as to the meaning of the word magazine, which is a storage unit or container for supplies (the connotation usually being that the supplies are expendable). This meaning of the word has not changed, and is not restricted to firearms, as for example film cameras hold their unexposed film in magazines. The most commonly understood definition today among the public, which is what libraries still more correctly call a periodical, is actually based on slang, albeit from a long time ago.

Detachable magazines for firearms were called magazines from the start, as that's what their inventor called them, but the most likely reason so many people--especially American military--have been using the word clip to describe everything that loads their rifles for so long is specifically the M1 Garand, and probably because the en-bloc clip sort of blurs the distinction for many (it's still not a magazine, though) and there's always force of habit. That doesn't make it correct, however, and with all due respect to those who serve and have served, being a soldier doesn't mean that you're always right about such things. My father, who served several tours in Vietnam and also worked as a civilian contractor there, always swore up and down that the AK-47 could use both its own bullets (he never used the more accurate term cartridge) as well as those of the M16. Nothing would convince him otherwise, and having never served, I didn't have a leg to stand on in an argument. But he still wasn't right , and if I mentioned that the AK-47s were mostly AKMs and Chinese Type 56 rifles, he probably wouldn't have known what I was talking about. By the way, he used an M1 Carbine and thought the M16 was pure garbage (maybe it was for a while back then, but he could never be convinced otherwise). I don't recall whether he ever mentioned a "magazine" or "clip" but I wouldn't take his word for which was correct.