Hurryin' Hoosier
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Me thinks Stevie might have stepped on it.
Makarov or Inexpensive 380?
- Thread starter Fat Boy
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If you want small and hard hitting, get a Kahr with +p rounds in it, and an 8 round mag. You can pick up the CW for 200 less than the PM. You then have a much lighter pistol for maybe 100 dollars more than a Mak, that will take +p rounds, should you care to carry them.
Times change, why settle for heavier gun with less power? I like the Mak, but not for an EDC.
Then the XDS is a hard one to dispute, it's still lighter and it's a 45, that is really the end all argument for why to have one. Forget the metal/plastic argument, it's the final outcome that counts. Bigger faster bullets, in lighter pistols, that are accurate enough, to stake your life on are what counts.
If you must have a 380, then Kahr again makes a lighter 380 as does Seacamp, Kel-tek, Ruger ,and everone else, and the new "Pico" by Beretta, which comes with a light or laser built in, and the ability to switch to a 32 caliber factory barrel and use the same mags. The Pico has the makings of the next big thing , in it's modular, multi color, multi caliber, $300.00 priced, small pistol that I predict everyone will want, "for their wives", "caugh", or themselves to play with.
You will be able to customize the gun your way, and have a inexpensive 32 caliber plinker along with the 380. they should be doing this with the Nano also, soon, perhaps with a 40 frame next, and maybe a 45 next year.
But in reality why get a 380 when you can get a 9mm the same size?
Times change, why settle for heavier gun with less power? I like the Mak, but not for an EDC.
Then the XDS is a hard one to dispute, it's still lighter and it's a 45, that is really the end all argument for why to have one. Forget the metal/plastic argument, it's the final outcome that counts. Bigger faster bullets, in lighter pistols, that are accurate enough, to stake your life on are what counts.
If you must have a 380, then Kahr again makes a lighter 380 as does Seacamp, Kel-tek, Ruger ,and everone else, and the new "Pico" by Beretta, which comes with a light or laser built in, and the ability to switch to a 32 caliber factory barrel and use the same mags. The Pico has the makings of the next big thing , in it's modular, multi color, multi caliber, $300.00 priced, small pistol that I predict everyone will want, "for their wives", "caugh", or themselves to play with.
You will be able to customize the gun your way, and have a inexpensive 32 caliber plinker along with the 380. they should be doing this with the Nano also, soon, perhaps with a 40 frame next, and maybe a 45 next year.
But in reality why get a 380 when you can get a 9mm the same size?
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Bersa, Kahr, Ruger, Beretta, Springfield, S&W, SIG.....all make nice small single-stack 9x19 CCW pistols. I would avoid 9x18 as most of those that own them only buy cheap foreign ammo therefore soon there will be no quality defensive ammo available for this caliber. If one settles for 50 to 100fps they can get 9x17 and plenty of good loads to choose from.
Marlin 45 carbine
Member
once you shoot an EG or Russki commercial Mak you'll want one.
the CZ82 is another good 9x18 but double stack - 12 rd IIRC - and even heavier and less adapted to ccw.
the CZ82 is another good 9x18 but double stack - 12 rd IIRC - and even heavier and less adapted to ccw.
Magwa45
Member
You can pick up a CZ 82 in 9x18 Makarov for about $250. I just got one and it is a very robust pistol with a double stack magazine of 12 rounds. Buffalo Bore makes some +P ammo and Russian and Chinese ammo is also available. A holster would probably be the best way to carry.
Torian
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So what?
Are we afraid of disagreeing with people now for fear of offending the PC crowd? The OP asked for feedback, and the man has an opinion based on experience, shared in a thoughtful and polite way as far as I'm concerned.
I for one am glad to see it. Just because he's only had a couple posts doesn't make his post any less relevant.
Hurryin' Hoosier
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Mass-produced, poorly-finished, and just an overall stinker. That's in addition to it being erroneously advertised as a "9mm" pistol.
I would say that such generalized and ill-informed "spouting off" about a family of pistols which a lot of us know, admire and love is a pretty poor way for a new-comer to introduce himself. Given his comments and tone, I have to question just which orifice Stevie was talking out of.
WardenWolf
member
Bersa guns have an awful trigger. Basically the choice comes down to this, in my opinion:
1. A commercial design that only has to stand up to civilian needs and light use.
2. A proven military design that has had decades of service and is widely known for reliability and accuracy. Milsurp pistols have also been used and tested, so you know you're getting a good firearm. It all but eliminates the possibility of getting a lemon.
The Makarov is also amazingly easy to disassemble and reassemble. The only tool I required to fully disassemble it was a pick to handle the trigger return spring.
Really, there is no question to me between buying a milsurp such as a Makarov or Polish P-64 or a commercial equivalent. If I can get a milsurp that will do what I want it to do, I will take the milsurp any day. The same goes for the commercial Baikal Makarovs. It's still a proven design, made in military factories.
1. A commercial design that only has to stand up to civilian needs and light use.
2. A proven military design that has had decades of service and is widely known for reliability and accuracy. Milsurp pistols have also been used and tested, so you know you're getting a good firearm. It all but eliminates the possibility of getting a lemon.
The Makarov is also amazingly easy to disassemble and reassemble. The only tool I required to fully disassemble it was a pick to handle the trigger return spring.
Really, there is no question to me between buying a milsurp such as a Makarov or Polish P-64 or a commercial equivalent. If I can get a milsurp that will do what I want it to do, I will take the milsurp any day. The same goes for the commercial Baikal Makarovs. It's still a proven design, made in military factories.
I agree with Torian. StevieRay expressed his opinion, no more, no less, in a perfectly acceptable manner. That it may or may not conflict with the prevailing opinion is irrelevant. I admire Makarov pistols but personally would and do choose any of several .380 pistols. I admire the robustness and simplicity of the Mak. I did not like the heavy DA trigger of my Bulgarian and did not like the way it recoiled in my hand. I prefer my PPK/S even though its DA trigger is also a bear. I love my Sig P232. I have owned a Bersa and may again. It was a good pistol but I admit it has too many "safety" add-on features for my taste. I like the relative availability and selection of .380 over 9mm Mak (though that could be debated in the last couple years). The sheer number and popularity of .380 pistols would seem to guarantee the future of the caliber.
If the Mak were still being made and imported, I might very well hold a different view.
If the Mak were still being made and imported, I might very well hold a different view.
StevieRay has just as much right to express his opinion of Makarovs as all of you that constantly piss on HiPoints, RIA's, and other "substandard" guns every chance you get. If one member is expected to keep his negative opinions to himself, then EVERY MEMBER should be held to the same requirement.
The Mak is a little big for pocket carry, unless it's the inside coat pocket in November.
I saw a .380 version for sale recently for $200. It's in great shape, but my buying is at a standstill right now and when I get a .380, it will be an LCP anyhow.
FWIW, I've owned a couple in 9mm Mak and both were reliable shooters with plenty of accuracy for the job at hand. My brother had one that used a doublestack magazine and it wasn't so great. IIRC, it was a Baikal civilian version.
I'd still likely take a NIB Ruger LC9 or the .380 version of the same gun over a Mak these days though.
I saw a .380 version for sale recently for $200. It's in great shape, but my buying is at a standstill right now and when I get a .380, it will be an LCP anyhow.
FWIW, I've owned a couple in 9mm Mak and both were reliable shooters with plenty of accuracy for the job at hand. My brother had one that used a doublestack magazine and it wasn't so great. IIRC, it was a Baikal civilian version.
I'd still likely take a NIB Ruger LC9 or the .380 version of the same gun over a Mak these days though.
springer99
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Given the OP's desire to carry in a back pocket, I'd have to vote for the LCP or maybe the LC9. Don't take this wrong; I have an ij-70 Mak. that I really like, and like others have mentioned, it's functionally bullet-proof and very accurate. It is, how-ever, an all-steel gun, heavy and not much smaller than my officers 45ACP. Not the best for pocket carry; at least for me.
I must respectfully, but strongly, disagree with StevieRayHubcap. The Makarov is an EXCELLENT pistol. Well made and reliable.
However, I would NOT call it a pocket gun. I think it's just too big/heavy for anything but a belt holster.
So is it a good gun? Yes.
Is it a good gun for what you want? Probably not.
Hope this is helpful...
However, I would NOT call it a pocket gun. I think it's just too big/heavy for anything but a belt holster.
So is it a good gun? Yes.
Is it a good gun for what you want? Probably not.
Hope this is helpful...
I agree. I have owned a couple of Maks and they were utterly reliable, accurate and very, very robust, but by today's standards just too heavy for what they are.
BSA1
member
I live in the country and, like the O.P. find it convenient to slip a handgun into the back pocket on jeans. My back pocket gun is the P-64 9 x 18. It is a little on the heavy side, a spring kit made the double action trigger pull manageable and the small sights help make it snag free.
p.s. the $150.00 price tag influenced me a lot also.
p.s. the $150.00 price tag influenced me a lot also.
WardenWolf
member
FYI, Hornady, Buffalo Bore, and other domestic manufacturers make high-end hollowpoints in 9x18 now.
I have come to really like the "Mak" I got a few weeks ago. It is a good shooter, though the trigger is pretty heavy, and the recoil is moderate. Plus it looks cool. They are excellent and affordable so I don't think you can go wrong with owning one.
I don't think it would make a good "pocket gun" because it is very heavy compared to other guns in .380 and 9x19. I have not weighed them but the KT 380 and Ruger 380 are a lot smaller and the KT 9mm and DB 9mm are smaller and lighter as well. If you have a choice of what to CC in a pocket I just don't think the Mak is the best option. I have slowly gravitated to where the KelTec P3AT is in my pocket almost constantly. I have more expensive pocket guns but this little guy is the engine that could and has never, ever failed to go bang.
I don't think it would make a good "pocket gun" because it is very heavy compared to other guns in .380 and 9x19. I have not weighed them but the KT 380 and Ruger 380 are a lot smaller and the KT 9mm and DB 9mm are smaller and lighter as well. If you have a choice of what to CC in a pocket I just don't think the Mak is the best option. I have slowly gravitated to where the KelTec P3AT is in my pocket almost constantly. I have more expensive pocket guns but this little guy is the engine that could and has never, ever failed to go bang.
fallout mike
Member
Torian, my post was not disrespectful. His makarov comments were not put forth in a "my experience" format. They sounded like something someone would get from the internet and then regurgitated as fact. The vast majority here really like the makarov and the FACT is that they are not "poorly finished stinkers, falsely advertised as 9mm". He gave his experience on what he bought his wife. He did not with the makarov. He didn't even start off with something like "I think" or "imo". He just starts off "mass produced, poorly finished, etc.... Then a detailed fairly lengthy experience with a ruger. In my experience and opinion anyone who shoots or has shot one of these would not think was was stated in his post. All this , is of course , just my opinion.
I'm not clear on why you would want a defensive pistol to carry in the "back pocket" of your jeans.... doesn't make any sense to me, unless of course you are a very big guy with some very big jean pockets...
But all that aside, I'm assuming you want a pistol that you can deep carry...so the Makarov, although it is a very good pistol for what it is, I would not recommend due to it's size and weight. It is more of a holster gun.
You would probably be happy with a Glock 26, Kahr or Ruger LCR in a good pocket holster (VERY IMPORTANT), depending on your size needs...
YMMV...
But all that aside, I'm assuming you want a pistol that you can deep carry...so the Makarov, although it is a very good pistol for what it is, I would not recommend due to it's size and weight. It is more of a holster gun.
You would probably be happy with a Glock 26, Kahr or Ruger LCR in a good pocket holster (VERY IMPORTANT), depending on your size needs...
YMMV...
I know a lot of people who like to be able to stick a gun in the back pocket if they walk more than fifty yards from the house but aren't exactly going anywhere. A Mak, or virtually any gun that will fit in a pocket, would be OK for that. My dad used to stick a 6" revolver in his pocket when he took the dog out at night.
On the disagreement with Stevie... ya'll are taking this way too seriously.
Some guys don't like Glocks. Some think the 1911 sucks... and maybe the ones they've owned did. So the guy doesn't like Makarovs. He's entitled to his opinion. I'll still sleep fine tonight, and so will he, and so will you.
On the disagreement with Stevie... ya'll are taking this way too seriously.
Some guys don't like Glocks. Some think the 1911 sucks... and maybe the ones they've owned did. So the guy doesn't like Makarovs. He's entitled to his opinion. I'll still sleep fine tonight, and so will he, and so will you.
North Bender
Member
It's pretty fringe to call all Makarovs poorly finished. Like other posters pointed out that just isn't true. The person who wrote that claim is incorrect, and wrote rudely. I don't pay much attention to unsupported blustering and I only write to comment that the support given here by subsequent posters is puzzling. THR is missing comments from a few of the old timers who do take the high road.
JoePfeiffer
Member
It's not clear to me from the way the OP phrased his question whether he meant Makarov the pistol or 9mm Mak the caliber. If the latter, the closest thing I have to a CCW pistol is a CZ 82; while it's a nice pistol and it has gone in the back pocket of my jeans a couple of times, it's really a bit heavy and bulky for a round only slightly better than a 380. I've been thinking I want an LCP for that purpose for a while now, but after setting Beretta's Pico announcement I want to have a look at that before making a final decision.
sent using CPIP (see RFC 1149)
sent using CPIP (see RFC 1149)
I agree with your comments about the Makarov but fail to see how anyone here has taken "the low road" by defending a new member's right to post his views as he sees them. That seems "high road" to me. Many long time members post more definitive and opinionated statements all the time without causing undue alarm. Of course, I've been wrong before and will be again.
It's just a piece of metal, not a sacred cow. Come to think of it, a sacred cow is just a cow. Human beings are just plain weird sometimes about what upsets us.
Torian
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I agree with your comments about the Makarov but fail to see how anyone here has taken "the low road" by defending a new member's right to post his views as he sees them. That seems "high road" to me. Many long time members post more definitive and opinionated statements all the time without causing undue alarm. Of course, I've been wrong before and will be again.
It's just a piece of metal, not a sacred cow. Come to think of it, a sacred cow is just a cow. Human beings are just plain weird sometimes about what upsets us.
Indeed.
I do not believe someone's opinion is more valuable simply because they have a higher post count. This is anything but THR.
That said, we certainly do have subject matter experts here that we defer to from time to time, such as Frank Ettin for legal questions, or 1911tuner for gunsmithing, but in terms of general opinions on firearms, if I were looking to purchase a particular model, I would want to hear all opinions on the matter, good or bad.
Take my recent purchase of my Elite Match in 10mm. I received a lot of negative feedback when I talked about purchasing one. Everything from "the gun is junk, customer service is junk, you're crazy...etc". Even after I went through with the purchase, I was happy for the variety of feedback, because my experience with the firearm has been just that, good AND bad.
If someone took the time to tell me what they thought, I would appreciate it. Whether or not the OP wants to take the advice given is his decision.
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