Man shoots motorcyclist in "self defense"

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I believe you're wrong on that. Under many state's laws, a male following one or more females home would be considered stalking, and is very much illegal.
No stalking is generaly defined as repeated and seperate instances.
A single such instance is not stalking.

Every paparazzi in existance could be considered stalkers if that was the case. Most are simply freelance photographers, and they generaly are unwelcome.

The first stalking law in the United States was passed in 1990 in CA.

Here is the relative CA law:

*****
646.9. (a) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly
follows or willfully and maliciously harasses
another person and who
makes a credible threat with the intent to place that person in
reasonable fear for his or her safety, or the safety of his or her
immediate family is guilty of the crime of stalking, punishable by
imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or by a
fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that
fine and imprisonment, or by imprisonment in the state prison.
(b) Any person who violates subdivision (a) when there is a
temporary restraining order, injunction, or any other court order in
effect prohibiting the behavior described in subdivision (a) against
the same party, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison
for two, three, or four years.
(c) (1) Every person who, after having been convicted of a felony
under Section 273.5, 273.6, or 422, commits a violation of
subdivision (a) shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail
for not more than one year, or by a fine of not more than one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment, or
by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or five years.
(2) Every person who, after having been convicted of a felony
under subdivision (a), commits a violation of this section shall be
punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or five
years.
(d) In addition to the penalties provided in this section, the
sentencing court may order a person convicted of a felony under this
section to register as a sex offender pursuant to Section 290.006.
(e) For the purposes of this section, "harasses" means engages in
a knowing and willful course of conduct directed at a specific person
that seriously alarms, annoys, torments, or terrorizes the person,
and that serves no legitimate purpose.
(f) For the purposes of this section, "course of conduct" means
two or more acts occurring over a period of time, however short,
evidencing a continuity of purpose. Constitutionally protected
activity is not included within the meaning of "course of conduct."
(g) For the purposes of this section, "credible threat" means a
verbal or written threat, including that performed through the use of
an electronic communication device, or a threat implied by a pattern
of conduct or a combination of verbal, written, or electronically
communicated statements and conduct, made with the intent to place
the person that is the target of the threat in reasonable fear for
his or her safety or the safety of his or her family, and made with
the apparent ability to carry out the threat so as to cause the
person who is the target of the threat to reasonably fear for his or
her safety or the safety of his or her family.
It is not necessary to
prove that the defendant had the intent to actually carry out the
threat. The present incarceration of a person making the threat shall
not be a bar to prosecution under this section. Constitutionally
protected activity is not included within the meaning of "credible
threat."
(h) For purposes of this section, the term "electronic
communication device" includes, but is not limited to, telephones,
cellular phones, computers, video recorders, fax machines, or pagers.
"Electronic communication" has the same meaning as the term defined
in Subsection 12 of Section 2510 of Title 18 of the United States
Code.
(i) This section shall not apply to conduct that occurs during
labor picketing.
(j) If probation is granted, or the execution or imposition of a
sentence is suspended, for any person convicted under this section,
it shall be a condition of probation that the person participate in
counseling, as designated by the court. However, the court, upon a
showing of good cause, may find that the counseling requirement shall
not be imposed.
(k) (1) The sentencing court also shall consider issuing an order
restraining the defendant from any contact with the victim, that may
be valid for up to 10 years, as determined by the court. It is the
intent of the Legislature that the length of any restraining order be
based upon the seriousness of the facts before the court, the
probability of future violations, and the safety of the victim and
his or her immediate family.
(2) This protective order may be issued by the court whether the
defendant is sentenced to state prison, county jail, or if imposition
of sentence is suspended and the defendant is placed on probation.
(l) For purposes of this section, "immediate family" means any
spouse, parent, child, any person related by consanguinity or
affinity within the second degree, or any other person who regularly
resides in the household, or who, within the prior six months,
regularly resided in the household.
(m) The court shall consider whether the defendant would benefit
from treatment pursuant to Section 2684. If it is determined to be
appropriate, the court shall recommend that the Department of
Corrections and Rehabilitation make a certification as provided in
Section 2684. Upon the certification, the defendant shall be
evaluated and transferred to the appropriate hospital for treatment
pursuant to Section 2684.
*****

So in California, and many other places that have since followed, even following someone is not stalking unless a credible threat has been made, and it is done repeatedly generaly on several seperate occassions according the the application of the law.

The exception would be someone that has been previously determined by the individual to be unwelcome, and they have gone and obtained a court ordered restraining order. The "stalker" would be informed of the restraining order and then be commiting a criminal offense even without a "credible threat" by approaching them in the future.
So it is possible for anyone that chooses to identify a single person in advance to obtain a temporary restraining order (requires nearly no proof) or a permanent restraining order (higher burden of proof.) However stalking laws do not just magicly apply to the public at large, or any single individual that chooses to follow someone at any time.

Can you imagine the extremely widespread potential for abuse if it did?
 
Some kids hit me on my bike and crunch the fairings. That plastic is expensive, I'm not paying for that, I want their details, so if the bike still runs I'm following them. I get to their home, there's a guy with a gun standing in the driveway. Fine, I go past, see if he's going to shoot at me, turn around to park when he doesn't, and then he starts shooting at me. I decide to bail, but by this time he's already gone trigger-happy.

As a motorcyclist, I can vouch that box pilots have incredibly bad attitudes towards two-wheelers, and that they seem to follow the idea that "it's always the bike's fault". I have literally heard, after being knocked down by some numbskull who couldn't be bothered to use his indicators or check the lane next to him, that "it's your fault for riding one of those dangerous things". Typecasting because of an inanimate object - sound familiar? It doesn't just apply to guns, you know.

I understand the guys who slap mirrors off, and it warms my heart when I see it done in deserving cases. Me, I concentrate on keeping my bike upright. Problem is, the mirror-breakers are the only ones who'll teach the box pilots to pay attention - given a couple of minutes, the woman who just near-missed me will either forget it or convince herself that it was my fault. A little 'reminder' helps - I've seen it in the drivers of cars with missing mirrors.
 
You know it just amazes me how many people here are almost enthusiastic about commiting a FELONY. Even if you forget the part about this happening on the road, you take it as strait forward vandalism, it would still be a felony do to the dollar ammount in damage done.( in most states)

Are you guys really ready to give up your CIVIL RIGHTS for what ammounts to vengence?

There is not a bike fast enough to stop me from getting a description of the bike and its plate number...
 
I have tons of experience with this

There is not a bike fast enough to stop me from getting a description of the bike and its plate number
Cars can't lane split and my old and gone 1990 FZR would have proven you wrong, never mind an R11 or a GSR750.

IMO the guy wanted to exchange info and attempted to split when he finally realized the guy had a gun in his hands....

It certainly smells like murder to me, we'll see what the court decides.
Tammy Bruce has already decided the dad is "father of the year"

This whole thread is abysmally low road.
 
This thread shakes my faith in humanity and THR members and makes me want to sell my motorcycle. I wonder how many of the tough guys here would mess with a pack of Hells Angels or Mongols as they say they will with a lone biker.

As for punching off mirrors, I don't even want to comment on that. I don't plan on doing that any time soon, remember car vs. bike, bikes gonna lose.
 
No matter the circumstances leading to it, this guy is going to have a tough time justifying this in court. Girls pulled in the drive, he should have been there with them, not at the road with the man who followed them.

Brake check me or make some other deliberate @$$hole manuever that endangers me when I'm riding, and I'll crater your door panel as I fly by.

Keep your head out of your *** and driver like a civil human being, it won't be a problem. Vandalize my car because you're riding too close or fast, it won't be pretty. Comments like this make me glad I sold mine ten years ago. Riding a scoot used to be a symbol of freedom and personal responsibility. Now it seems to be an excuse for overgrown juvenile delinquency.
 
Non-riders will never understand the perils we face on the road, nor the blind hatred and disdain many motorists have for motorcycles. Whether it be born of jealousy or prejudice, many seem to have a hard-on for cyclists and will go out of their way to harrass you.

For instance I once rolled up to a traffic light which turned green just as I drew near, allowing me to cruise (at slightly less than the speed limit, mind you) past a beemer that had apparently been sitting there impatiently waiting. He obviously took the passing personally, and less than a mile down the road deliberately cut me off - gesturing and applying his brakes in a manner clearly meant to intimidate. I'd done absolutely nothing wrong yet this clown endangered my life.

Then there are the soccer moms in minivans and SUV's who change lanes without looking, the elderly who lean over to adjust their Depends and cross the double yellow, the businessmen and women too busy negotiating that deal or searching through their briefcases to check for traffic, the teenagers who regard traffic signals and stop signs as mere suggestions, the cab drivers who only think of picking up a fare regardless of which side of the road they're on....the list just goes on and on. Walk, or in this case ride, a mile in our shoes and your opinion of both cars and drivers will change dramatically - and forever. The roads might be nothing to you, but to us they're shooting galleries and we're riding around with bullseyes on our backs. How would you feel if someone nearly killed or maimed you for life, only to smile and shrug it off like it was no big deal?

Personally, I'm giving the motorcyclist in this instance the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps his motives were innocent but his judgment was suspect. Either way there can be no excuse for shooting at someone who is neither armed nor posing an immediate threat - and back shooting is cowardly in the extreme.
 
I've rode all my adult life. Survived the show-off years, made it through the hot-rod/plasticbike years. Been riding Harleys now since '89, when I got my first 'cruiser', and never looked back.

Maybe it's an age thing, but I always treated cars like they don't see me. One of 'em almost hits me? Then I wasn't paying enough attention, and didn't leave myself enough wiggle room. I've been cut off, and I've had my share of left-turn gravemakers ahead...and if there's one thing I know, it's that in no case has anybody ever purposefully tried to kill me. Poor drivers? Maybe. Could something really, really bad have happened to me? Yep. Did they do it on purpose? Nope. And that makes all the difference in the world. I got this thing on my bike, works off a switch on the handlebars. A short blast on the horn and a friendly wave usually gets their attention. If I get taken out, I get taken out. It's my time. I don't think it's here yet, and I ride like no one can see me...and I've never gone down in 30 years. It's just my way--I'm not a vengeful guy.

Having said that, I have no sympathy for this shooter. I can think of no situation that justifies shooting the motorcyclist, while the motorcyclist is on his bike, and riding away from him. Were a motorcyclist to attempt to run me over, and missed (or I dodged out of the way), I'd run inside the house and call the cops. Oh, I'd still keep my firearm handy in case of a truly bad case of bastardism...but I don't think this guy has any sort of self-defense case. He's going to go down, and without knowing the rest of the facts, it sure seems like he needs to.

We are authorized to carry to stop an attack on our person. A motorcyclist riding away from me cannot, by definition, be attacking me, unless he is turned around on his seat and firing. If he fired at the back of an attacker, then he did so due to adrenaline, or rage, or vengeance, or what have you.

When we are trained, we are trained to know when to shoot to stop an attack, and more importantly, when NOT to shoot. A man who doesn't consider the serious, serious consequences of his actions when he pulls that firearm should not be carrying anyway.

I don't care--and neither will opposing counsel--if that biker was screaming obscenities and threatening to come back with all his 'biker buddies' (a scenario proposed by an earlier poster). There is either an immediate, real threat to your life or the lives of your loved ones, or there is not.

...and if this guy really did have 'biker buddies', killing him wasn't bright. That stupid, senseless, and tragic action certainly won't make understanding sympathizers of them.
 
I must be missing something. So reverse it. The girls are on bikes and the guy following them is in a Buick. Do you change how you look at it?
 
...and that is the reason why I punch mirrors off of cars that decide to play games with my life while on my bike.
+1 I get very upset with idiots in cages that endanger my life.

Standing at the end of your driveway, shooting someone in the street, sounds like murder in the first degree.
 
I must be missing something. So reverse it. The girls are on bikes and the guy following them is in a Buick. Do you change how you look at it?

Of course. Why wouldn't you?

An automobile, by its very design, affords some level of protection that a motorcycle does not. Odds are that a maniacal driver in a cage can do much more damage to a motorcyclist, as opposed to a psycho biker attempting to assail an automobile. I would even go so far as to say that any automobile operator seriously attempting to "scare"--or assault--a motorcyclist is going to cause grievous harm to that biker. Even the act of attempting to get away from an attacking automobile puts a motorcyclist at risk.

What I don't understand is why you would ask that question.
 
I rode a cycle for a while, and was smart enough to give it up. The fun was trumped by the close calls, and I refused to risk my life to prove I had a right to risk my life...
 
Personally, I'm giving the motorcyclist in this instance the benefit of the doubt.

And thats the problem. Too many people here supporting the motorcyclist because he's on a motorcycle and you just so happen to have a motorcycle yourself. I almost ran a motorcyclist off the road once, mainly because he had a headlight out and I never saw him as he was close to (but not in) my blind spot. I felt really bad about it. Had he tried to punish me by damaging the car that I love, theres a good chance I might not have been able to keep myself from escalating the situation. It's wrong and I admit it, but self-control is particularly difficult when the adrenaline is flowing on the road.

I dont have a motorcycle, just a motorcycle permit. Therefore, I never really ride alone. The biggest problem with motorcycles is that people who ride them create an us vs. them mentality. As we have seen in this thread. He was shot in the back, but he was following them home. Sounds like both the motorcyclist and the homeowner did something wrong.
 
I ride a motorcycle every day, everywhere I'm going, and have for years.
One thing I've learned is, if you have time to get mad then it wasn't a close call.

If they swiped the guy, he should have gotten their plate number and description and called the cops. The basic forensics of paint swapping and the angle at which it happened should be plenty for the fuzz to reconstruct what happened.

The guy in the driveway with a gun ready to shoot is what you expect these days when you deal with parents of teens who lack the ability to accept that their children could do something wrong. I'd never ride into that situation. As soon as I saw a gun, if I'd gone that far, I would have gotten out of dodge.

This absolutely didn't have to end in a life lost. It's a shame.

And, you other bikers can do as you wish, but any time you punch a mirror or dent a door, you do so under the grace of the cage driver who doesn't whip over and kill you or hit you from behind.
 
Hey, holy crap guys, when did this become an argument about the relative merits and intelligence of people who ride motorcycles vs. people who drive cars?
 
alright ladies...and gents..

As the story is written there is WAY to much we dont know to make an informed decision of the legality of this case. Time will out.

That being said, I live in the Myrtle Beach area like Hankdatank, we host 2 major bike rallies a year and see the worst the motorcycle world has to offer up close and personal like. We also have an opportunity to meet and hang out with some good ambassadors from the motorcycling world too. Kinda like the the morons and the nice guys we meet at the range huh?:scrutiny:

Reserve your judgements until all of the facts are known and put the testosterone in neutral.....
 
Mough, 21, drove past the house, turned around and made another pass. Gear fired his .40-caliber semiautomatic gun two or three times, hitting Mough once in the back, Berry said.
Richard Harold Gear, 45, claimed he was acting in self-defense when he shot Bryan Joseph Mough around 6:45 p.m. Monday as Mough drove his motorcycle past Gear's house, Oconee County Sheriff Scott Berry said.

Funny , says drove PAST , not at the shooter . So what exactly was he defending against?

The bike vs car thing , as far as the shooting goes, has zero relevance . If the story is accurate , and the person on the bike never aimed it at the shooter , then it's a bad shoot. It would be the same for a car . Someone driving past you up and down the street does not constitute an immediate danger .

I'd like to see how this plays out , and what , if any , additional facts there are . But based solely on this one article , I can't say the father was justified.
 
Since there is so much missing here that we don't know, I think the likelihood of the teenage girls being responsible for hitting the biker because they were absent minded is about as likely as a 21 year old guy on a bike weaving in and out of traffic and driving like an idiot on a sportbike.
The father will not get life in prison, more like 3-5 for manslaughter or something like that.
I have a daughter and I can see where the father was fired up because someone was following them. I don't think he should have shot him in the back but I wasn't there to hear if the biker said something stupid like "I am coming back for them" or something else. Did the biker try to hit the dad with his bike on the second pass? Why did he even make a second pass? The road is not a dead end road.
If you are on a bike you are at a huge disadvantage in any fight. The biker obviously did not know this.
BTW, I am a biker also and have done things out of anger on both rice rockets and hogs that I should have never done that put my life in jeopardy. I realize I am not bulletproof any longer.
 
Mirror Punching, violent vendetta driven behavior, brake checking, erratic driving... None of this even close to High Road. Where are the mods to close this? its a bunch of blowhards sounding off about how they will brake check a biker or how a biker will get thier vengeance. Lets move on and grow up shall we?
 
Based on the article I am not sure what happened on the road but I do know one thing, if someone follows you home it is not because they have good intentions. We also don’t know if this a good shoot or not due to a lack of info. The biker could have charged the daughters getting out of the car or the father and as he passes the father shot him in the back. If this biker had a grievance he should have written down, got a picture of, or memorize the plate number of the car he was following and report it to police. What we do know is the biker choose confrontation and lost. It seems the father followed the rule “better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6” for him and his daughter.
 
Wow, I sure hope that the antis never have the opportunity to read this thread. Some of the comments here make me shudder as a gun owner. Kicking doors and punching mirrors?? Where do you guys think that you are living, Dodge City?

I have ridden a motorcycle for years and have never had a "near miss" because I drive carefully. I have, however, had many near misses while driving an automobile. Bottomline boys, there are folks out there that just can't drive but there is "NEVER" any justification for teaching them a lesson by cutting them off, punching their mirror or kicking in a door panel.

Do that to me on 2 wheels or 4 and I will call the cops and have your crazy ass arrested.

As for the story. No one knows what really happened and most likely we never will as the bike rider is dead. I don't care if he was a class 3 sex offender, nothing justifies standing in the street and firing at the guy. Even if he came close by, you still have the opportunity to step back into your driveway or go into your home and call the police. This father was obviously upset after receiving a phone call from his daughters and decided to go John Wayne in front of them by protecting them and his castle.

Way too much testosterone here on both sides. As a responsible motorcycle rider with any intelligence you must realize that you present a smaller image on the road and need to be extra careful while driving in traffic. Hell, if people cut you off while driving in a car because they didn't see you, imagine how hard it is for them to see a 2 wheeler. Secondly as a responsible gun owner, you must only use that firearm under extreme situations where your life is in imminent danger. I hope that those of you that are so eager to use that gun have thought about the consequences. Erasing someone from existance is a pretty heady thing and you had better be willing to live with it for the rest of your life. This isn't X box or TV, the guy doesn't come back in the replay or the sequel.
 
OTOH, pre-emptively shooting an unarmed creep in the back in the middle of the street doesn't seem like quite the right way to resolve the situation either
perhaps he repeatedly put his hands in his pockets.
 
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