Mayhap plastic is not so fantastic?

[FireInCairo]

So I've been buying plastic bins regularly over the last 15 years. We all consider plastic bins "non-durables," but even 10 years ago these binds would last a few years or more.

The last 5 year or so it seems the plastic bins come to point, not even within a year, wherein they become really brittle and the polymer is so stiff it chips and cracks really easily and quickly becomes useless and ready for the trash bin. They start off fine, but quickly "age" for lack of a better term, and become brittle and prone to breaking.

I have been noticing some stories lately about polymer Glock, S&W, and other makes frames cracking.

What if plastic is not so fantastic down the road? What if all the polymer pistols out there became compromised because of their polymer make-up 20 years down the road?

Has this every crossed anyone's mind? I think I found the beef with plastic.

 

[dogtown tom]

I have a rusty barbecue grill in the back yard......all steel.....two years old.
I also have a $10 Wal-Mart plastic wading pool for the dogs......five years old and still holds water.

Therefore plastic > steel.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Where are these "stories" you've been reading coming from? I'm no Glock fan but there lots of 30 year old Glocks still out there going strong. Occasionally I hear a reputable account of a cracked frame but lets be real- how many cracked 1911 frames are there? I have personally seen a few and I'm not a gunsmith. When an alloy or steel frame cracks we all understand that machines can break or wear out. But when a "plastic" one cracks people seem to freak out.

Stuff breaks. No matter what you build it out of.

BTW, Glocks are cheap and ugly. So what if you only get thirty or forty years out of one? That's like $10/year. Just buy another one. It's not like a $3500 Wilson.

 

[JohnKSa]

First of all, there are lots of different kinds of plastics. Some last a very long time, some break down quickly. One shouldn't assume that it is possible to draw accurate conclusions about the durability of all types of polymer based on experience with just one kind of polymer.

Second, there are ways to perform accelerated aging tests to determine how plastics will age. I won't claim that all gun companies perform such testing, but some certainly do. Somewhere I ran across the accelerated aging results that one gun company did on their polymer. They determined that 100 years of continuous sunlight would not significantly degrade the mechanical properties of the material they were using.

Third, we don't have to run accelerated aging tests or guess about the long term aging properties of some polymers because some have been around a long time. Nylon (which is one of the more common plastics used in firearms) was invented in 1935. That means there should be some very good real-world data on how it will hold up over 70-80 years. It may be selfish of me, but I'm not overly concerned about the prospect that my polymer guns may all fall apart in 90-100 years.

 

[kcofohio]

Think of the vehicles that were produced 20+ years ago that are still on the road today. Many are subjected to 24/7/365 in the open climate. Though some of the plastic on these cars may be warped, for the most part, they're not falling apart from exposure.

Not many guns are exposed to this degree of the climate.

 

[larryflew]

Yup, you need another reason not to like Tupperware........

Weight, balance, looks ??????

 

[Panzerschwein]

I don't think Glocks are made of the same plastic that goes in cheap bins.

In fact, it's most high tech stuff methinks.

 

[Zerodefect]

Not even close. Polymers have advanced a ton in the last few years. Firearm plastics, even high quality versions are falling down the scale. But those new space age polymers have a price.

I've seen the steel rails on a Glock crack. Most of the plastic cracks I've seen on various pistols didn't cause them to fail. I think a replacement Glock frame is only $80. Free if it's newer.

They don't crack nearly as often as aluminum 1911 frames.

I'm just thrilled I get to post Glock dog again:

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1467557

http://www.gunsnet.net/showthread.php/22912-Glock-Chew-Toy

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Hahaha! Good doggie! Gonna need a breath mint after chewing up that Block, though.

 

[chris in va]

The frame on my P01 is forged aluminum. I suspect it'll last longer than I can hold it.

 

[GLOOB]

Plastic frames are cheap. If your gun's plastic frame breaks under normal use, the company will often replace it for very cheap or even for free, if it's under warranty.

As long as you stick to a known quantity, and not a flavor of the month, your polymer gun will be in service for a long time. Spare parts, spare frames, and trained armorers aplenty.

FYI, the main vulnerability of nylon and epoxy is UV light. If you leave your polymer gun in sunlight, day after day, I expect it will fail in your lifetime. Due to limited open carry opportunities, that isn't a problem for most of us.

 

[ljnowell]

Saying "plastic" is just like saying "steel." There is harder steel, softer steel, etc. plastic or steel is a wife variety of product.

Since Glock has pistols 30 or more years old, and HK has plastic pistols even older(not to mention other manufacturers plastic long gun stocks that are older than both) I don't think this is an issue.

I would love to see these stories of glocks getting brittle.

 

[ritepath]

If only all frames were milled stainless...

 

[HexHead]

Yep, plastic frames crack. When the HK P30 was tested, it went 91,322 rounds before a sliver of the frame broke. I'm not going to worry about mine.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/2668

As far as Glocks are concerned, I consider a $500 gun as disposable.

 

[jmr40]

The frame on my P01 is forged aluminum. I suspect it'll last longer than I can hold it.

Probably so, but aluminum is the weakest gun frame material and the one with the shortest life expectancy. Steel has always been the strongest, aluminum was developed as a way to reduce costs and weight. Plastic rivals steel for strength and beats aluminum for cost and weight by a wide margin.

ince Glock has pistols 30 or more years old,

There are Remington 22 rifles out there made of plastic 50-60 years ago that are still working just fine. If anything the plastics used in modern guns is tougher. Sunlight is probably the one thing that will degrade plastics the most. I suppose you could place one of the plastic guns on the roof of your house for a couple of decades where it would be exposed to bright sunlight constantly and you'd see frame cracking. I doubt if a steel or aluminum gun would hold up to the elements any better.

Car tires, or the plastic used on car interiors will deteriorate from sunlight, guns aren't exposed to bright sunlight every single day for 20-30 years like cars are. Even with cars, this is only a real concern in the southern most states such as Florida, and the southern extremes of the states from South Carolina to California.

 

[JohnKSa]

Probably so, but aluminum is the weakest gun frame material and the one with the shortest life expectancy. Steel has always been the strongest, aluminum was developed as a way to reduce costs and weight. Plastic rivals steel for strength and beats aluminum for cost and weight by a wide margin.

It is true that all else being equal, an aluminum frame will likely fail before a polymer frame. However that's less to do with strength in the sense that we think about strength and more to do with the fatigue properties of aluminum.

Aluminum has no minimum fatigue limit. If you flex a piece of steel or plastic, as long as you don't flex it too much, you can theoretically flex it an infinite number of times without it fatiguing and failing. Any time you flex an aluminum part, no matter how little you flex it, you have measurably shortened the life of the part. Admittedly, if you flex it a very small amount then you have shortened the life of the part a very small amount and you may be able to continue flexing it for thousands of iterations before it finally fails, but it does differ from plastic and steel in that respect.

Plastic is nowhere nearly as strong as steel or aluminum, but it has excellent fatigue properties. In a gun frame that doesn't need to be super strong, but that will be flexed and vibrated significantly at every firing, plastic makes a good choice.

 

[kokapelli]

Polymer can crack, but so can Steele.

 

[Jeremiah10:23]

The key with things like bins (or any product to a certain degree) is the factory needs to sell more product to make a profit. Have you ever heard the phrase "planned obsolescence"? In my business we count on the fact that nothing lasts forever.

 

[wingman]

Years ago worked in the plastic industry made some quality products but today your bins were likely made in China most of their plastic is junk, like any product today maximum profit little quality IMO.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Polymer frames can crack and probably will at some point. Replacing them should be cheap and easy as will be upgrading them with different attributes and features like different finger grooves, texture, back straps, front straps, etc.

Do that with steel or aluminum and the cost becomes prohibitive and the work specialized.

I like both concepts and adore 100 year old all steel machined construction but there are other newer concepts that are equally viable and effective. Maybe more so. The world is changing fast in terms of materials and functionality and concepts. Polymer and modular are the gonna really change things'have really changed things.

VooDoo

 

[HKGuns]

Comparing plastic trash bins with polymer pistols? Seriously? I guess you can't see the difference between different types of "plastic" as you call it.

Wow.

 

[Tallball]

For plastic, aluminum, or steel guns, things like springs and extractors will normally wear out long before the frames will. That is the stuff that's annoying. Maybe some of you have worn out a frame, but I never have.

I do have a few plastic guns. Some of my steel guns have shot thousands upon thousands of rounds over 20 years or more and are still fine. If 20 years and ten thousand rounds from now one of my newer polymer pistols cracks its frame, I won't be thinking that it was a piece of junk and I should have gotten steel instead. I will just shrug and figure I got my $300 worth out of it.

 

[JWH321]

Remember, if the frames wear out, you have an excuse to go get new guns. Now is that so bad???

 

[kcofohio]

Plastics, polymers, it's big business. Petroleum and chemical companies, plus universities put a lot into research for 1000s of different applications.

Many of times it is what we sit our duffs on.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

What if plastic is not so fantastic down the road? What if all the polymer pistols out there became compromised because of their polymer make-up 20 years down the road?

Has this every crossed anyone's mind? I think I found the beef with plastic

What if? First off, different plastics are used in different products. Secondly, everything breaks eventually with enough use. If a person thinks steel will hold up longer, that's fine. Then buy a high quality revolver, or 1911, and be happy.

I have a Remington Nylon 66 made many decades ago, and the polymer stock is still just fine.

The sun is going to go out eventually too. I don't worry about that either, and still enjoy it now.

Take care of your guns, and store them properly and they will likely outlast you.